Basic Project Questions

[RedRaydin]

Thanks guys, you guys truly rock for being fast responding teachers!!! Haha. So how many of you guys are going to start teaching High School Science??? I'm lucky to have a place like this where I can come learn this stuff and get more knowledgeable on all aspects of herping. I'm gonna get that book next month for my b-day and I'm also going to buy a book about snake breeding. If you guys could steer me in a good direction for that book I'd appreciate it. Later folks.

 

[batwrangler]

Thanks guys, you guys truly rock for being fast responding teachers!!! Haha. So how many of you guys are going to start teaching High School Science??? I'm lucky to have a place like this where I can come learn this stuff and get more knowledgeable on all aspects of herping. I'm gonna get that book next month for my b-day and I'm also going to buy a book about snake breeding. If you guys could steer me in a good direction for that book I'd appreciate it. Later folks.

The best books on keeping cornsnakes:
Corn Snakes In Captivity by Don Soderberg
Corn Snakes: The Comprehensive Owner's Guide by Kathy & Bill Love


For genetics:
Genetics For Herpers by Charles Pritzel
Cornsnake Morph Guide - 2007 Edition by Charles Pritzel

For general snake-keeping:
Art of Keeping Snakes by Philippe De Vosjoli

 

[Flagg]

Oh, and don't expect your amel to have no hets just because it's from Petco. Odds are he is probably het anery as breeding for snows is pretty common. Could be het for anything really.

 

[MerlinsPop]

No. Whatever morph a snake displays will be passed on to its offspring as a het. If both parents pass on the same morph, the offspring are homo and will display the trait themselves. Your amel must pass het amel to all of its offspring. A snow, which displays both anery and amel, must pass het amel and het anery to all of its offspring. Since the offspring have received het amel from both parents, they must be homo amel. Since the offspring received anery from one parent but not the other, they must be het anery. Therefore, all of the offspring are homo amel het anery.

I'm just following along this thread just to try to gain a little understanding of genetics myself. Let me readback something and tell me if I have it right: If both parents are het for the same thing (lets say anery), then both parents will pass down those genes, and therefore the offspring will be homo for the trait (and therefore display it). Two wrongs don't make a right, but two hets make a homo??

 

[batwrangler]

I'm just following along this thread just to try to gain a little understanding of genetics myself. Let me readback something and tell me if I have it right: If both parents are het for the same thing (lets say anery), then both parents will pass down those genes, and therefore the offspring will be homo for the trait (and therefore display it). Two wrongs don't make a right, but two hets make a homo??

Two hets have the potential to make a homo.

Statistically, one quarter of the babies will each get the recessive (het) gene from both parents, two quarters will get the recessive gene from only one parent (while getting the normal/dominant gene from the other parent), and one quarter will get the normal/dominant gene from both parents and not be het at all.

In most cases there is no way short of breeding tests to tell which are the hets and which are the homo normal/dominant ones.

 

[batwrangler]

Statistically, one quarter of the babies will each get the recessive (het) gene from both parents, two quarters will get the recessive gene from only one parent (while getting the normal/dominant gene from the other parent), and one quarter will get the normal/dominant gene from both parents and not be het at all.

In case it's not clear, that first quarter will be homo for the trait that was het in their parents. The middle two quarters will be het for the trait that was het in their parents. And the last quarter will not be het at all: they'll be homo for the dominant trait.

 

[MerlinsPop]

Okay, thanks. I think I have a basic understanding. If what's below is right, then I think I understand enough to lift the 'fog' of confusion I'm in:

Vern is a Normal, purchased at Petco, so just by looking at it there's no way to know if it's 'het' for anything.
Vern could be:
1. Normal het nothing
2. Normal het Amel
3. Normal het Anery
4. Normal het Amel AND Anery
The best way to find out if Vern is het Anything would be to mate it with a snow, which is both Amel and Anery. Depending on the size of the clutch, more than one clutch may be needed to get a statistically significant number of hatchlings.

If I got any Amels or Aneries, then I know Vern is het for that trait. If I get both Amels and Anerier (or a snow), then I know Vern's het for both. If they all look Normal, he's net for neither.

I don't even what to go into any of the double recessive genes!

 

[MerlinsPop]

If they all look Normal, he's net for neither.

AND ALL the babies would be either homo (if the trait is displayed) or het (if it's not) for both anery and amel, true?

 

[batwrangler]

AND ALL the babies would be either homo (if the trait is displayed) or het (if it's not) for both anery and amel, true?

Sounds like you got it!

They'd be homo anery/amel/snow if they display any of those traits because they automatically get one amel and one anery gene each from the snow plus the "hidden" het genes for the same from Vern.

And any "normals" would indeed be hets, because they also get one amel and one anery from the snow, but only normal gene from Vern.

If you get all normals from a very large clutch or from several clutches, it's unlikely ('cause it's hard to prove a negative) that Vern is het for anery or amel.

 

[MerlinsPop]

didja hear the choir sing the "note of enlightenment?" Thanks. :crazy02:

So, last night I casually mentioned to 'She Who Rules All' that Cooper is being such a good study so far and soaking up everything about basic husbandry of Vern (Coop's just turned 6 this month), tha I thought that in a few years it'd be a GREAT opportunity to teach him the basics of genetics to get a snow and run some 'experiments' which would also teach him breeding, incubation, etc. I got the one-arched-eyebrow look that tells me I'm very glad it'll take Vern a few years to reach breeding age, cuz I've got some work to do!