So if I buy some corns this year or next year by the time they become mature I'll have enough experience on them right? Also how can one become a certified breeder or licensed breeder? Another question how can I become a FedEx certified shipper? (Sorry for all the questions it's just that im new To corns n snakes for that matter
-
Hello!
Either you have not registered on this site yet, or you are registered but have not logged in. In either case, you will not be able to use the full functionality of this site until you have registered, and then logged in after your registration has been approved.
Registration is FREE, so please register so you can participate instead of remaining a lurker....
Please be certain that the location field is correctly filled out when you register. All registrations that appear to be bogus will be rejected. Which means that if your location field does NOT match the actual location of your registration IP address, then your registration will be rejected.
Sorry about the strictness of this requirement, but it is necessary to block spammers and scammers at the door as much as possible.
Breeding
- Thread starter Lt0915
- Start date
BloodyBaroness
Captain Titsworth
Man, I hate to rain on the parade, but there are some really really good threads out there you should look up and read.
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/search.php
Use that search feature and you can find tons and tons of information on the this site.
http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/search.php
Use that search feature and you can find tons and tons of information on the this site.
Outcast
ATPSS
I suggest you take time researching snakes. My first year I wanted to start breeding, and started researching requirements for such a trek. Since I am in college and do not have the time during the breeding season, or during hatching season (internships over the summer), I have decided not to breed until I am in a more stable position. It is not just the snakes that you are breeding that you have to take care of. You have to make sure that all of the babies that you do not want to keep have homes, or you get stuck with them for a while. And, you have to learn patience as well.
All in all, I would listen to what Autumn says and do lots of searching on the subject.
All in all, I would listen to what Autumn says and do lots of searching on the subject.
Outcast
ATPSS
I would just say, keep studying while they are growing. I started out with hatchlings as well, and then got an adult female. I hope to breed her one day. If I can take her with me over the summer for my internship, I may breed her this year. I want to test my male to see if he is het amel (supposedly he had a snow sibling, but the pet store I got him at is not very honest). He is a very pink anery, and has been a very slow grower... I will have to get some pictures up of him soon...
diamondlil
Mice! They taste so nice!
In theory, of course you'll have enough experience in raising the hatchlings you've bought, but usually they'll be well started by someone else and eat, shed, grow with minor troubles. Getting healthy adults into breeding condition as well, usually a simple process, you put them together and then the fun will begin.
If you read through this breeding sub-forum, you'll find snakes that just won't do it, with their owners tearing their hair out and resorting to playing Barry White and lighting mood candles! After 3 years of raising your breeders and anticipating your first year of breeding it's not that unusual to find out then that one of the pair was mis-sexed, and that you've unwittingly been trying for a same-sex union. If you haven't got alternative pairings it can totally ruin your project. I've been there, so have many of us, cursing our luck that the snakes vital to our plans just aren't a pair after all.
Then if you have been lucky enough that your snakes are a pair and they do mate, you'll be tearing your hair out decididng how often to put them together, frantically searching their honeymoon tub for evidence of sperm spillage, if there is some you'll be amazed at how the heck snakes can produce something that looks like acid custard as their spooge. You'll be frantically wondering if the female is gravid, desperate to know how many eggs she's carrying and when she'll lay.
You'll put in a laybox and keep your fingers crossed that the female will use it, instead of drowning the eggs by laying in her waterbowl, or hiding a lovely clump of eggs under her hide that you'll find shrivelled up and beyond help 3 days later. As she gets bigger, you'll be worrying about egg-binding, many of us with apparently healthy, well conditioned gravid females have had them gravely ill or actually die in the egg-laing process. Trust me, there's nothing worse than finding your treasured female with a pile of eggs blocked up inside her, cursing yourself for risking her life by breeding her, except maybe (thankfully I haven't had this bit personally) after taking her to the vets for manipulation, aspiration of eggs or an op, her dying despite all efforts to save her.
Will you be ready to face this possibility after raising your babies? Only time will tell.
diamondlil
Mice! They taste so nice!
So, if those hurdles are cleared, you'll have bought or made an incubator. You'll be agonising over getting the temperature stable, as heatspikes can cause death and deformities to your whole clutch of much longed for snakes. Been there, had it happen. Egg after egg hatched out kinked, coiled up deformed babies, with no possible survival chance, that I had to euthanise whilst crying my eyes out. Will you be ready to face that?
So as the eggs are developing, you'll be on tenterhooks, waiting to see what will hatch. And the first pippies are totally a joy! Seeing them slitting the eggs, poking out their noses and blowing bubbles is adorable. And most of them, if conditions have been right, will be perfect little mini snakes. Some of them won't though. Some may be kinked, have herniated their guts whilst exiting the eggs, some never hatch and cutting in to see why is always a horrid task. When the healthy ones have hatched and shed, again, mostly they'll feed and be ok. but a proportion won't. You'lll be frantically trying every tip and trick you can, watching them literally waste away and dying in front of you and wishing you'd never decided to breed your snakes.
The ones that are good feeders and start of well, you'll rejoice in. then you'll be torn between whether to keep any or to sell them all. And then........all the fun of trying to sell them for a decent price, or in a bad year, trying to sell them at all. With every week they don't sell, every hungry little hatchling eating its pinky mouse is costing you more money some years than you will actually sell it for, once you factor in the original cost of buying the breeders, raising them, heating, housing, the yearly food bill, the hatchling tubs, the hatchling rack. some will take their first few feeds and then stop...taking you back into the loop of tricks and tips to get them restarted!
So in answer to your question, will raising your bought hatchlings make you ready and experienced enouigh to breed, of course it will. As long as you research and read others experiences, you can prepare yourself. How you will deal with any problems that arise is an individual thing. If you are still on this site you'll get support and advice along the way. The joys and the pains of breeding the corns though, you'll be dealing with that alone in reality. We'll be here in the background, but it could be you sitting holding you dead, eggbound female in your hands in 3 years, you staring at kinked babies and trying to summon up the nerve to euthanise them. As long as you are sure you can face the bad along with the good, go ahead.
For me, it's worth it. I've faced the problems, I've had the lows, but I've also had the joys which keep me going. I've been the one posting frantically for help. This year as well as my lovely hatchlings that ate well and got good prices this year though, I've had a couple of clutches go bad during incubation, DIE twins, non-feeders that have gone off to be king cobra food and I've got a whole clutch of beautiful healthy amels that no-one wants to buy! I'm banging my head against a brick wall trying to trade or sell them and thinking that next year it won't be worth producing any normals, amels or aneries as they are getting so hard to sell.
So as the eggs are developing, you'll be on tenterhooks, waiting to see what will hatch. And the first pippies are totally a joy! Seeing them slitting the eggs, poking out their noses and blowing bubbles is adorable. And most of them, if conditions have been right, will be perfect little mini snakes. Some of them won't though. Some may be kinked, have herniated their guts whilst exiting the eggs, some never hatch and cutting in to see why is always a horrid task. When the healthy ones have hatched and shed, again, mostly they'll feed and be ok. but a proportion won't. You'lll be frantically trying every tip and trick you can, watching them literally waste away and dying in front of you and wishing you'd never decided to breed your snakes.
The ones that are good feeders and start of well, you'll rejoice in. then you'll be torn between whether to keep any or to sell them all. And then........all the fun of trying to sell them for a decent price, or in a bad year, trying to sell them at all. With every week they don't sell, every hungry little hatchling eating its pinky mouse is costing you more money some years than you will actually sell it for, once you factor in the original cost of buying the breeders, raising them, heating, housing, the yearly food bill, the hatchling tubs, the hatchling rack. some will take their first few feeds and then stop...taking you back into the loop of tricks and tips to get them restarted!
So in answer to your question, will raising your bought hatchlings make you ready and experienced enouigh to breed, of course it will. As long as you research and read others experiences, you can prepare yourself. How you will deal with any problems that arise is an individual thing. If you are still on this site you'll get support and advice along the way. The joys and the pains of breeding the corns though, you'll be dealing with that alone in reality. We'll be here in the background, but it could be you sitting holding you dead, eggbound female in your hands in 3 years, you staring at kinked babies and trying to summon up the nerve to euthanise them. As long as you are sure you can face the bad along with the good, go ahead.
For me, it's worth it. I've faced the problems, I've had the lows, but I've also had the joys which keep me going. I've been the one posting frantically for help. This year as well as my lovely hatchlings that ate well and got good prices this year though, I've had a couple of clutches go bad during incubation, DIE twins, non-feeders that have gone off to be king cobra food and I've got a whole clutch of beautiful healthy amels that no-one wants to buy! I'm banging my head against a brick wall trying to trade or sell them and thinking that next year it won't be worth producing any normals, amels or aneries as they are getting so hard to sell.
Last edited:
Christen
New member
Dang it I must spread the rep around. To the OP this is the reality of it. As much as it sucks it is true. I know that we post the cute pictures of our babies pipping and rarely post pictures of the bad times but they are there. The first time I bred I sat and cried that I put my female through that and she was so skinny. I luckily had beginners luck mom and eggs did great with just one set of twins that died after starting to eat. I still consider myself lucky even though I lost the twins. Susan actually has made a couple threads down in here forum of a particularly bad year for her. http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123795
I hate to discourage you and know that this is not what we intend to do. We just want you to know that breeding is not always sunshine and roses and if you are prepared for that go for it.
I hate to discourage you and know that this is not what we intend to do. We just want you to know that breeding is not always sunshine and roses and if you are prepared for that go for it.
cornsnakeforsale_com
Just Another Corn Breeder
If you want to breed I say go for it! But be realistic - you need to know what you're doing and you haven't even kept snakes before. Get a few cheaper ones now and think about it for later. It's not as easy as you think. I just disposed of two dead babies who wouldn't eat yesterday.
BSLMichael
Below Sea Level Reptiles
Wow! sounds so similar to breeding dogs! So many issues that can go wrong, and you sit and brood every single one of them.
First time I bred my dog I nearly decided to NEVER breed her agian. She had 11 pups... But she made a FULL recovery and it turned out to have a positive effect on her coat!
I also plan on breeding snakes. I plan to try my first attempt next year. I have been doing nothing but research and reading horror stories, as well as happy ones, for the past 11 months!
Everything I learned is from hear and reptile shows. Trust me, you will get alot of information here, but if you are mroe of a visual learner like I am, go to a reptile show. Ask questions! Lots of breeders are more than happy to share stories and show you what a breeding sized snake looks like and how to pop babies... etc.
From what I can tell the reptile community is a very friendly one with very little exceptions. (Unlike Dog show and Cat Show people... they can be pretty cut throat to new people)
*edit* disclaimer: I will not be responsible for the impulsive buying that may happen when attending reptile shows.
First time I bred my dog I nearly decided to NEVER breed her agian. She had 11 pups... But she made a FULL recovery and it turned out to have a positive effect on her coat!
I also plan on breeding snakes. I plan to try my first attempt next year. I have been doing nothing but research and reading horror stories, as well as happy ones, for the past 11 months!
Everything I learned is from hear and reptile shows. Trust me, you will get alot of information here, but if you are mroe of a visual learner like I am, go to a reptile show. Ask questions! Lots of breeders are more than happy to share stories and show you what a breeding sized snake looks like and how to pop babies... etc.
From what I can tell the reptile community is a very friendly one with very little exceptions. (Unlike Dog show and Cat Show people... they can be pretty cut throat to new people)
*edit* disclaimer: I will not be responsible for the impulsive buying that may happen when attending reptile shows.
Nanci
Alien Lover
Murphy's Laws of Snake Breeding by Rich Z
All of the snakes you obtain will not be properly sexed.
Everyone makes mistakes. Sexing baby snakes is not the easiest thing in the world to do. Anyone who has told you that they have never made a mistake sexing a snake does not stay in contact with past customers.
When you get your snakes, check the sexes immediately. It's a little embarrassing for both of you to have to call your supplier back two years later to tell them about the error. Plus you have just lost two years needlessly from your breeding plans with those snakes.
All of the snakes you obtain will not reach maturity and breed before some mishap occurs.
Snakes DO escape. If there is one thing they are pros at doing, escaping is it. Sometimes you never see the escapee again and your breeding plans have been seriously impacted.
Snakes DO die. Like all other life forms, they suffer from mortality. This could be from any number of things, such as poor husbandry, internal organ failures, accidents, etc. Keep the cage simple. Step back and take a look at it thinking that the snake is suicidal and will do anything it can to injure itself. Then remove all of the items that it could use to reach that goal.
Every mated pairing you plan for the snakes will not take place.
Snakes do sometimes exhibit mate preference. This is sometimes tough to figure out unless you have a number of specimens to choose from and can play 'musical mates'.
Just because you have a particular match in mind doesn't mean the participants or circumstances will be agreeable. It is quite possible that the female will not be receptive while the male is. Then when the female becomes receptive, the male gets opaque and may not have an interest in mating. Then by the time the male sheds his skin, the female could become opaque. If you are serious about working with a particular species or cultivar, plan on getting at least 2 males and 2 females.
Every mating does not produce eggs.
For whatever reason, a female can mate, sometimes with multiple males, and then not produce any eggs. All can be cycled through with the same conditions that all the rest of the successful matings went through, but something is missing in the equation.
Every egg laid will not be fertile.
This is a tough one to figure out. I have never been able to figure out exactly all of the variables going on to make every female produce 100 percent fertile eggs 100 percent of the time. You can expose the males and females to the same exact environmental conditions each year and sometimes a particular male will be the culprit in unsuccessful matings. The following year, every female he mates with produces all fertile eggs. On the other hand, some years a particular female will produce a majority of infertile eggs, although mated with a male that other females produce all fertile eggs after mating. The next year, with the same male, she will do fine.
Every fertile egg will not hatch successfully.
As I am fond of saying, "Every hatching season has it's surprises. Mostly bad ones." Even discounting obvious errors in the methods someone may use to incubate snake eggs, obviously good eggs will sometimes fail. This can be as early as within a couple of weeks after the egg is laid, up to when the baby snake pokes his head out of the egg, takes a gasp of air, and then dies. This can be very frustrating since you are inclined to blame yourself. But any number of things can go wrong in the development of the embryo at any stage. After you have hatched enough eggs, you will see things hatch out that you will wonder how they ever made it that far without dying.
Every hatched baby will not survive.
Nothing is more frustrating than having a baby snake just refuse to eat. After you have raised up the parents for a few years, done all of the voodoo necessary to get them to breed, and taken meticulous care at incubating the eggs to get a successful hatching, one of your 'pride and joys' is trying to starve himself to death. And, yes, a snake will starve itself to death. This is when you discover the joy of splitting the heads of pinky mice with a razor, or cutting off tails and legs of mice to shove down a snake's unwilling throat, or capturing lizards to rub things YOU want the snake to eat against them to scent it. This is the true test of your patience.<br><br>
As a general rule of thumb, plan on the prettiest animal in the clutch to be the biggest pain to get feeding.
Every hatched snake will not be of the sex you want it to be.
It is not unusual to get a clutch of snakes that is either very heavily weighted with one sex or even 100 percent one sex. There is nothing you can do about it, so yell and cuss all your want for 10 or 15 minutes and then get on with your life.
Every snake you sex will not be done correctly.
Your pencils DO have erasers on them, don't they? Remember how mad you got when you found out that your supplier had mis-sexed the snakes you got? My word of advice: Don't sex more than 25 snakes at a sitting. Trust me on this.
The snakes that were so much in demand when you bought yours may not stay in demand.
Remember all of those people at the reptile shows? They all had the same idea you did. Buy a few snakes, raise them up, breed them, then sell the babies. Well, guess what? If they were all successful, there are now a LOT of those snakes out there for sale. And there is probably someone else with the same ones you have that is willing to sell them much cheaper than you want to.
The fertility of your animals will be inversely proportional to the value of the offspring.
The more those babies will be worth directly controls how fertile the parents are that your are breeding. A direct reversal of the usual cause and effect phenomenon we normally see, and a direct contradiction of the physical universe. It sometimes helps if you don't KNOW they are valuable, so ignorance can be somewhat of a shield.
This is not meant to discourage anyone, but is to give you an idea of what it took to get that correctly sexed pair of snakes sitting in deli cups at a reptile show to the point where they are available for you to buy. It all looks so easy from the other side of the table, doesn't it? You want to know how to tell the breeders that have been in this the longest? Look for prematurely graying hair or rapidly thinning hair. These are sure signs.
All of the snakes you obtain will not be properly sexed.
Everyone makes mistakes. Sexing baby snakes is not the easiest thing in the world to do. Anyone who has told you that they have never made a mistake sexing a snake does not stay in contact with past customers.
When you get your snakes, check the sexes immediately. It's a little embarrassing for both of you to have to call your supplier back two years later to tell them about the error. Plus you have just lost two years needlessly from your breeding plans with those snakes.
All of the snakes you obtain will not reach maturity and breed before some mishap occurs.
Snakes DO escape. If there is one thing they are pros at doing, escaping is it. Sometimes you never see the escapee again and your breeding plans have been seriously impacted.
Snakes DO die. Like all other life forms, they suffer from mortality. This could be from any number of things, such as poor husbandry, internal organ failures, accidents, etc. Keep the cage simple. Step back and take a look at it thinking that the snake is suicidal and will do anything it can to injure itself. Then remove all of the items that it could use to reach that goal.
Every mated pairing you plan for the snakes will not take place.
Snakes do sometimes exhibit mate preference. This is sometimes tough to figure out unless you have a number of specimens to choose from and can play 'musical mates'.
Just because you have a particular match in mind doesn't mean the participants or circumstances will be agreeable. It is quite possible that the female will not be receptive while the male is. Then when the female becomes receptive, the male gets opaque and may not have an interest in mating. Then by the time the male sheds his skin, the female could become opaque. If you are serious about working with a particular species or cultivar, plan on getting at least 2 males and 2 females.
Every mating does not produce eggs.
For whatever reason, a female can mate, sometimes with multiple males, and then not produce any eggs. All can be cycled through with the same conditions that all the rest of the successful matings went through, but something is missing in the equation.
Every egg laid will not be fertile.
This is a tough one to figure out. I have never been able to figure out exactly all of the variables going on to make every female produce 100 percent fertile eggs 100 percent of the time. You can expose the males and females to the same exact environmental conditions each year and sometimes a particular male will be the culprit in unsuccessful matings. The following year, every female he mates with produces all fertile eggs. On the other hand, some years a particular female will produce a majority of infertile eggs, although mated with a male that other females produce all fertile eggs after mating. The next year, with the same male, she will do fine.
Every fertile egg will not hatch successfully.
As I am fond of saying, "Every hatching season has it's surprises. Mostly bad ones." Even discounting obvious errors in the methods someone may use to incubate snake eggs, obviously good eggs will sometimes fail. This can be as early as within a couple of weeks after the egg is laid, up to when the baby snake pokes his head out of the egg, takes a gasp of air, and then dies. This can be very frustrating since you are inclined to blame yourself. But any number of things can go wrong in the development of the embryo at any stage. After you have hatched enough eggs, you will see things hatch out that you will wonder how they ever made it that far without dying.
Every hatched baby will not survive.
Nothing is more frustrating than having a baby snake just refuse to eat. After you have raised up the parents for a few years, done all of the voodoo necessary to get them to breed, and taken meticulous care at incubating the eggs to get a successful hatching, one of your 'pride and joys' is trying to starve himself to death. And, yes, a snake will starve itself to death. This is when you discover the joy of splitting the heads of pinky mice with a razor, or cutting off tails and legs of mice to shove down a snake's unwilling throat, or capturing lizards to rub things YOU want the snake to eat against them to scent it. This is the true test of your patience.<br><br>
As a general rule of thumb, plan on the prettiest animal in the clutch to be the biggest pain to get feeding.
Every hatched snake will not be of the sex you want it to be.
It is not unusual to get a clutch of snakes that is either very heavily weighted with one sex or even 100 percent one sex. There is nothing you can do about it, so yell and cuss all your want for 10 or 15 minutes and then get on with your life.
Every snake you sex will not be done correctly.
Your pencils DO have erasers on them, don't they? Remember how mad you got when you found out that your supplier had mis-sexed the snakes you got? My word of advice: Don't sex more than 25 snakes at a sitting. Trust me on this.
The snakes that were so much in demand when you bought yours may not stay in demand.
Remember all of those people at the reptile shows? They all had the same idea you did. Buy a few snakes, raise them up, breed them, then sell the babies. Well, guess what? If they were all successful, there are now a LOT of those snakes out there for sale. And there is probably someone else with the same ones you have that is willing to sell them much cheaper than you want to.
The fertility of your animals will be inversely proportional to the value of the offspring.
The more those babies will be worth directly controls how fertile the parents are that your are breeding. A direct reversal of the usual cause and effect phenomenon we normally see, and a direct contradiction of the physical universe. It sometimes helps if you don't KNOW they are valuable, so ignorance can be somewhat of a shield.
This is not meant to discourage anyone, but is to give you an idea of what it took to get that correctly sexed pair of snakes sitting in deli cups at a reptile show to the point where they are available for you to buy. It all looks so easy from the other side of the table, doesn't it? You want to know how to tell the breeders that have been in this the longest? Look for prematurely graying hair or rapidly thinning hair. These are sure signs.
BSLMichael
Below Sea Level Reptiles
I highly doubt they were trying to scare you or make you think breeding is a bad thing.(Well maybe enough to make you REALLY think about it)
They are trying to tell you that there are LOTS of things to consider. It dosent mean that it WILL happen everytime you breed. They just want you to be aware that thoe things and many more could happen and that you need to be prepared for it.
Say you do breed your female and she egg binds. Do you have enough money to cover the vet cost?
Do you have an incubator that you have tested to see how accurate it runs?
Are you thick skinned neough to cull babies if needed???
do you have the money to feed 10-20+ hungry baby corns for possibly an extended ammount of time?
If you anwser no to any of those, you are probably not ready, or if you are not willing to deal with any of those, breeding probably isnt for u. Breeding can be tough with any type of animal.
Christen
New member
Very good points Michael! However I have to say even though I have only been breeding for 4 years, I would have to say that at least one of those things from the Murphy's Laws of Snake Breeding that Nanci has posted has happened each year. I think it is probably the same for everyone that breeds. So yes we are telling worst case scenarios but those are really scenarios that we have to deal with every year not just every so often.
Yes breeding can be scary and it is something that you really have to consider. And yes finances are a huge part of it because many of us finish the year in the red and not make a dime. Sometimes loose a bunch of money when a snake gets sick or egg bound as a result from breeding.
Now that being said. Nothing beats watching your first baby pip. Those cute little noses blowing those cute little bubbles. So I am not saying there is no reward to breeding but like Michael said if you are not prepared to face each of those possible frustrations then I don't recommend breeding. Enjoy your snakes and be a positive snake ambassador and educator but if you are then start your studying on snake genetics and look forward to the rewards and struggles of breeding.
Yes breeding can be scary and it is something that you really have to consider. And yes finances are a huge part of it because many of us finish the year in the red and not make a dime. Sometimes loose a bunch of money when a snake gets sick or egg bound as a result from breeding.
Now that being said. Nothing beats watching your first baby pip. Those cute little noses blowing those cute little bubbles. So I am not saying there is no reward to breeding but like Michael said if you are not prepared to face each of those possible frustrations then I don't recommend breeding. Enjoy your snakes and be a positive snake ambassador and educator but if you are then start your studying on snake genetics and look forward to the rewards and struggles of breeding.
Outcast
ATPSS
I have already had one of those things happen to me
My caramel Mal recently passed, which is why I have everyone on lock down and observation before I add anything new to my collection. He was due to become the father of a project that I had high hopes for. While that project is not dead, I will not be working on it for a long time now.
I really like this post, to be honest because so many new people join the forums with dreams of becoming breeders I think there should be a sticky of the non feeder horror stories and such. It's always best knowing the worst scenarios going into a project than just the good ones and then you're not prepared for the bad when it comes along. My plans are still to take up breeding in a few years but fortunately I have a lot of friends in the herp and zoo fields due to my career choice so finding homes won't be a problem for me, and I'll have everybody in my field and on here to turn to for help on the serious matters. If you're getting hatchlings LT you've got 3 years at minimum probably for your female to be minimum breeding size so it's quite a while to do research and think it over. Like everyone is telling you expense and heartache are big conflicts you need to look at.