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Can pet stores treat corn snakes like this?! Help me save them!

Candachan said:
Even the stores that sell snakes still refuse to sell and animal for the purpose of being a feeder except feeder goldfish and crickets. You have no idea how many people try to buy our mice or rats for that, as if the higher price tag wasn't an indicator!
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I remember we used to have a "refusal to sell" policy, stating that the emplyee was not obligated to sell an animal if he or she felt that the owner would be abusive towards it or mistreat it. I used that two or three times- once for an obnoxious fat woman and her fat daughter who wanted to keep a guinea pig in a hamster cage- you know the kind with "levels" that is about 12" x 8" x 6" tall?? Ridiculous... she cursed me out but I still refused the sale. And she could have EATEN ME, no lie. :eek1:

The other few times had to do with selling feeders. I explained the negatives re: live feeders to the people, and they ignored me and still attempted to purchase hamsters as feeders (this was before PM started selling fancy mice and rats). I refused both times and was backed up by the management. Once the management stopped backing us up, I quit.

Overall, I found that I cared more about the animals welfare than I did the sale, and at first, that was the norm. Then we got a new manager in who was expected to bolster the stores waning sales and they started cutting costs on medical care for sick and injured animals (I had to punch out and take time OFF CLOCK to drive a sick G-pig to a Banfield Clinic for it to recieve care because the manager refused to take it nor allow me to be on the clock for the driving) and started doing whatever they could to make the sale, including selling inappropriate sized homes for various creatures. So I saw the good and the bad in my 4 years there.

I am excited because that same Petsmart now has a new specialty manager, one of the girls who worked with me when the store was on the upswing. She is kicking some arse with regards to cleaning, stocking, and weeding out idiot employees. I am VERY impressed with the improvements that this Petsmart has been making, and am on the verge of being happy to shop there again. :crazy02: So it is possible for bad stores to turn around- most of it has to do with the attitude of the managers.
 
We are allowed to refuse sale for any reason, including getting a "bad feeling" from a customer or if you know they have mistreated animals before. There was one such case where a woman kept buying and bringing back dead fish, and I mean bags of them at a time! We told her that we weren't going to sell her more fish until she brought us a water sample, and she started yelling about how she had her water tested at another chain instead and they said it was fine. Well lady, WE have to see that firsthand. I was glad my manager backed us up on that. The lady got a refund, but wasn't allowed to buy more fish.

I agree that stores can sway with the management, but for that old store to become as good as my new one, they'd need to clear everyone out!

I'm glad our managers give us plenty of say in animal care, including what fresh foods to buy and which animals needa a vet. Thankfully, there will be a vet opening in my store in January.
 
Thanks for the feedback guys!

I think Ill print off a care sheet and give one to the manager and sneak in the back and tape one right next to the cage! lol. :crazy02:
 
I have had some bad experiences with most of the pet stores around here and hate to shop at them. First, I bought two snakes from Petco and brought home mites which I'm still trying to get rid of. Then, I go to this other store..Petland and find a rat snake heavily infested with mites and ticks. The poor thing probably couldn't even see, they were just loaded around his eyes. I told an employee who seemed not to care and then when I left I called and spoke to the manager and told her she better do something about it. I think most people don't like snakes and don't really want to take care of them. The people are there for the money not because they care about animals. I, personally, don't think petstores should be selling them for the reason stated above. They should leave it to the people who do like snakes, know what they're talking about and treat them the way they should be treated. Especially when it comes to their care.
 
kathleenj said:
I have had some bad experiences with most of the pet stores around here and hate to shop at them. First, I bought two snakes from Petco and brought home mites which I'm still trying to get rid of. Then, I go to this other store..Petland and find a rat snake heavily infested with mites and ticks. The poor thing probably couldn't even see, they were just loaded around his eyes. I told an employee who seemed not to care and then when I left I called and spoke to the manager and told her she better do something about it. I think most people don't like snakes and don't really want to take care of them. The people are there for the money not because they care about animals. I, personally, don't think petstores should be selling them for the reason stated above. They should leave it to the people who do like snakes, know what they're talking about and treat them the way they should be treated. Especially when it comes to their care.
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Petstores COULDN'T sell snakes if breeders didn't sell to them
 
The answer to the nagging question of, "What do I do about the poor care in any pet store?" is this...

Always be polite and courteous. Emotions and accusations will turn people off and they won't listen to what you have to say. Take pictures if you can and document what you've seen, and take someone else as a witness. Contact the manager and/or owner and let them know what you have found. Get names, dates, times, etc. The more information you have the more powerful you are. If they don't take action, file a complaint with local animal control and/or report them to the humane society. If you feel the need to go further, write an article and submit it to the local newspaper, c/o letters to the editor. If your area TV news has a reporter that investigates businesses with poor practices, call them up and talk to them. Always work with your local animal control and humane society. Contact them first!

I have made a difference in the reptile care at a nearby pet store. I went in with a friend and addressed the issues with an employee, who was borderline hostile. I emailed the owner about it and they made some improvements. Another complaint came to us about two bearded dragons that were eating each other and were left in the same cage with no water. We contacted animal control and the store received a citation. They can actually be closed down if they don't toe the line. You can make a difference, but you need to involve the proper authorities and do things right.
 
So I just went into a PetCo to buy a frozen mouse (my garage freezer failed leaving me with 97 very warm thawed guys- BUMMED) and I thought I'd take a look at their corns.
there were four amels there pretty skinny, but the main thing was that they were COVERED in mites. Two of them stayed in the water bowl the whole time I was there- about 30 minutes.
I had the same initial reaction- Thought I should buy them, but then realized that's not only pricey and unrealistic, but it would profit that store to have kept them that way.
I was there so long because while I waited for the manager to come back off her lunch, I decided to alert every customer that came around considering a reptile purchase of what was going on. When she came out to talk to me, I told her about it and without even looking at them she told me she'd look into it and walked away!
Luckily there was an 800 number on the cage and so I let them know what was up in that store. The guy on the phone actually seemed to care and said he'd have their vet look at them.

Hopefully they really do!
 
I'm glad other people have posted their problems on here so I don't feel like I'm the only one who thinks pet shops mistreat their animals, or that I'm sticking my nose in.

My local pet shop that sells fish and reptiles have always been bad with their fish. There is normally a couple of dead fish in most tanks, I mean, I know fish don't live all that long and can die quickly but surely they should do a check before they open in the mornings and take the dead ones out, if only so they don't look bad to the customers, let alone disease and the other fish eating them.

I used to buy fish there all the time and it became a common occurunce for them to die within a week or less of getting them home. My water was not a problem, I have had it tested, have my own proper testing kits, do regular water changes and clean the filters out. Also, any fish I bought from other shops survived.

The main thing that stopped me getting fish from there though was one time they had a tank full of female Siamese Fighting Fish and I wanted a couple to breed with my male. After looking in the tank I could see that they all had whitespot so I started to walk away. The owner must have seen me looking and came over to give me the "Sales Speech". When I mentioned about the white spot he tried telling that it wasn't that, but in fact was where they had been nibbling each other "cause that's what fish do". I told him I wasn't an idiot who had been keeping fish for 5 minutes and told him where to go.

Anyways, About a year ago they started stocking snakes and other reptiles but they were owned by someone else using the shop to sell them, not the shop itself so I thought I'd go and have a look and which made me do all the research into getting my own as I have always been fasinated with them and my mum would never have let me have one when I lived at home.

But I am afraid that they treat their reptiles as bad as they treat their fish.

All the animals are fed in their viv's (which will probably explain a later problem I will bring up), and they don't even put the mice on a piece of carboard or anything, just plump them straight onto the substrate so the mice are covered in it. At this time I didn't know that this was a problem because I hadn't researched that part.

They don't clean the viv's out regulary or when needed. I went in last Friday with a friend because she wanted a new addition to her collection and I noticed that in 4 of the vivs, the snakes had shed. I thought it was strange that all 4 would have shed in the same night but, meh, it could happen I suppose. I then noticed that most of the snakes had no water so I told the owner about that and he said he would get straight on it and fill the bowls up.
We bought a Royal Python and left (more problems with this explained below) and I went back the following Monday to get some decorations for my baby corns viv and I noticed that the same sheds were still in the vivs and NONE of the snakes had water. Again, I mentioned it.

The excuse for the sheds was that he simply hadn't noticed. I'm sorry but if you even walk past the viv's you can see them, especially as one was a Red Tailed Boa, now, they aint little so I don't see how it could be missed. The other reason this made me pissed was that with the misting and high humidity needed with shedding, the substrate would have still been wet/damp which will cause problems. But the substrate didn't look damp so I guess he didn't care about that either and they may well have had bad sheds cause none of the sheds were in one piece.

With the water, this time he made an excuse that it evaporated overnight. Pfft, ALL the bowls in ALL the viv's?!?! Well, he got a bottle of water from behind the counter so I said "Oh, do you treat your water to take out the cholrine so it's better for the animals?" his response was "No, we just don't have any taps on the premises." I think that answered my question as to why all the fish are unhealthy then........

Now, regarding the Royal. Me, my friend, her boyfriend and her 4 year old girl went in to get a new snake because the 4 year old had decided that the cornsnake at home was hers so mummy needed to get another for herself. Who's gonna argue with that!! :grin01: Well, we saw the Royal and the little girl instantly said "That's your new snake mummy, it's beautiful." So, I asked about it and the owner said it was the most docile snake in the shop, never had a problem with it and said "I'll go and get a transporting box so you can take it now." I thought hang on one second, being a bit hasty now arn't we?? So naturally I asked to handle it. He seemed a bit nervous but unlocked the viv and I picked it up still all balled up. The owner then walked off so I bent down and showed it to the little girl but she wanted to see it's head so I tried to uncoil it slighty but then BAM!! It struck at her face, luckily she put her hands in the way but then it went for me twice. The owner came back over and said "There's no way it would have bitten you, it's very calm," so I showed him the little girls finger with a definite cut and blood and right on cue, it went for me again twice in front of him. Now I have to deal with a screaming child and a snappy snake. His response was "Well, I only fed it yesterday, maybe it's still hungry, pop it back in and I'll feed it again now" so I said "Seriously, your gonna feed it 2 days in a row?" which he said he does quite often if they don't look full up.
So now, with steam almost comming out of my ears and not sure what I was gonna say next my friend pipped in and said she would take it, if just to get it out of his care.

Now, I was wondering if anyone has a phone number/website/email address for animal welfare in the U.K. that could give this guy a visit, or shall I just call RSPCA? I will try going back in and talking to him one more time but after taking no notice of what I said to him about the water, I doubt he will listen nor care if I just threaten him with animal welfare.
 
In the UK, pet shop licences are issued by your local council's Environmental Health Officer. You could contact them with your complaints.

There's a pro-reptile keeping organisation called FOCAS, which is a pet trade organisation designed to act as a pressure group on poor traders ("You're bringing the rest of us into disrepute" type of approach). You could Google them and see if they have anyone local who could visit and offer some more formal "friendly" advice.

The RSPCA are notoriously anti-reptile keeping, but you could involve them if you really feel there's no other way. If they decide to prosecute the shop, be warned that you stand a good chance of getting an article in your local (and possibly the national) press about how this proves reptiles make unsuitable pets. Also, you might want to check whether your local inspector actually has any knowledge of reptiles. Most don't and so a shop assistant can bamboozle them quite easily.
 
Also one of my local shops was keeping their corns in individual small containers inside vivs. Along comes the RSPCA inspector and made them put them all together in a big tank. The result was non-feeders, of which at least 5 had died. On my advice they seperated the remaining corns and printed off info for the next visit from the RSPCA. The shop had rang me to see if I could help with the last 2 non-feeders but they were already dead by the time I got to the shop.
So I'd tread carefully before involving them.
 
Do You Really Want To Help?

I spent years as a management consultant helping businesses improve their operations and here's what I think will get PETCO's attention.

First let them know that snake owners are a growing part of the pet market. Write to PETCO and tell them how many snakes you own. Then tell them how much money you spend a year on your snakes. (figure it up. I guarantee you'll be surprised)

Second, tell them you are going to stop buying any kind of pet products from them unless they start housing their snakes properly. Most of us have lots of different kinds of pets.

Lastly, give them a low cost reasonable alternative. I used to raise bettas (also known as Siamese fighting fish). PETCO houses their bettas in deli cups. If PETCO knew that corn snakes hatchlings could be housed just as cheaply as the bettas. And that such displays would allow buyers to pick up the deli cup and select a corn snake without a sales clerk assisting, I think they'd jump on the idea.

Here's PETCO'S "CONTACT US" page. I'm gonna set up a "Have you contacted PETCO to promote better snake care? poll to see just how many people actually follow through. Remember the movie "NETWORK" when everybody opened their windows and shouted, "I'm mad as Hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!" Here's your chance to really help.
 
"here's what I think will get PETCO's attention.

First let them know that snake owners are a growing part of the pet market. Write to PETCO and tell them how many snakes you own. Then tell them how much money you spend a year on your snakes. (figure it up. I guarantee you'll be surprised) "

I think Bill is "on the money" with this one.
I found it particularly telling that the guy I talked to at the complaint line with PetCo asked for my Petco Pals I.D. number... Luckily with a big chain like this money does talk.
 
bitsy said:
In the UK, pet shop licences are issued by your local council's Environmental Health Officer. You could contact them with your complaints.

There's a pro-reptile keeping organisation called FOCAS, which is a pet trade organisation designed to act as a pressure group on poor traders ("You're bringing the rest of us into disrepute" type of approach). You could Google them and see if they have anyone local who could visit and offer some more formal "friendly" advice.

The RSPCA are notoriously anti-reptile keeping, but you could involve them if you really feel there's no other way. If they decide to prosecute the shop, be warned that you stand a good chance of getting an article in your local (and possibly the national) press about how this proves reptiles make unsuitable pets. Also, you might want to check whether your local inspector actually has any knowledge of reptiles. Most don't and so a shop assistant can bamboozle them quite easily.
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Thanks for the advice.

About the RSPCA - Yes, those are the main reasons why I didn't really want to contact them but I thought I'd better ask in case they were just rumours I had heard.
 
bill38112 said:
Lastly, give them a low cost reasonable alternative. I used to raise bettas (also known as Siamese fighting fish). PETCO houses their bettas in deli cups. If PETCO knew that corn snakes hatchlings could be housed just as cheaply as the bettas. And that such displays would allow buyers to pick up the deli cup and select a corn snake without a sales clerk assisting, I think they'd jump on the idea.
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I don't think Petco would consider it. They don't have small animals of any kind out where people can get them because they know people will steal them. If it can fit into a purse or pocket, it will be gone. That's proven fact in retail. This is why you won't find many pet stores that has small animals easily accessible to their customers. Now, baby corns could be housed in smaller containers but kept behind protective glass so that they would be cheaper to house and easier to handle for their employees, easier to show to a customer. That Petco might consider.
 
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