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Concerned about a local "Breeder"

Sinsational

Sinsational

New member
A couple months ago on craigslist, I noticed a bunch of posts from a lady who says she is a cornsnake breeder. She was advertising 4 snakes being sold seperately for $100 each. Yesterday she posted them at $150 for the lot (3 left) and today she went down to $125 but they had to go together. I emailed her asking some general questions about them.
How old are they? 3 months.
-Is this possible? The eggs would have to have pip'd back in February.
How much are they being fed, and how often? Pinkies once a week.
-This really isn't a sufficient feeding schedule for young snakes as per the Munson plan.
Are they being housed together? YES
-This is really risky and especially bad husbandry for a "breeder"
Why are they being sold as a group? Because I like adults more than babies
What morphs are they? A snow, an okeetee and a regular.
-The pics she sent were a snow, a very very thin bordered regular and an amel.

I am so concerned by this breeder's husbandry! Without trying to be rude, I advised her that once a week isn't enough for a growing snake, and sent her a link to the dangers of cohabing graphic page on here, and advised her that the snake's aren't the same morphs as she is advertising. I also recommended that she come here for some advice and maybe wait a while and get more experience keeping snakes before she tries breeding again.
 
I can take these two:
Sinsational said:
How old are they? 3 months.
-Is this possible? The eggs would have to have pip'd back in February.
Click to expand...
Yes, it would be possible.

Sinsational said:
How much are they being fed, and how often? Pinkies once a week.
-This really isn't a sufficient feeding schedule for young snakes as per the Munson plan.
Click to expand...
All my hatchlings are fed once a week from hatching. I have snakes that will be two years old in June, are over 300 grams in weight, and have never been fed more often than once every 7 days. Have a problem with that? :)

Interestingly enough, just 4 short years ago, feeding a hatchling any more often than 7 days was considered "power feeding" and severely frowned upon. :shrugs:

D80
 
Now now D80, did you have to come on and make me look like an ass? Haha just teasing you. I didn't know that cornsnakes breed in the winter. why does it seem like most breeders breed in spring?
 
Sinsational said:
How much are they being fed, and how often? Pinkies once a week.
-This really isn't a sufficient feeding schedule for young snakes as per the Munson plan.
Are they being housed together? YES
-This is really risky and especially bad husbandry for a "breeder"
Why are they being sold as a group? Because I like adults more than babies
What morphs are they? A snow, an okeetee and a regular.
-The pics she sent were a snow, a very very thin bordered regular and an amel.
.
Click to expand...

You may not know this but there are some here who think Roy Munson is a god. I know him pretty well and can tell you for a fact that is not true. The Munson plan is great but not the final word and many people do not subscribe to it. I don't because it is way to complicated for my little brain. Every Tuesday I understand, every five days makes my head real.

Most people think co-hab is bad and I agree. BUT, many people keep neonates together and separate them only for feeding. Not my idea of a good thing but it is fairly common.

Many many people can not identify even the common morphs correctly. Okeetee has become a very misused word, and most corn owners don't know what it actually means.

As noble as you are, you can not police the whole world. Not everyone is going to do it your way and that is OK. Some of the smartest people on the planet hang at CS.com but there are other ways to do things that are not necessarily bad.

All of the Canadian women, yourself included, on this forum are gorgeous and I think you rank near the top. I would never intentionally try to make you feel foolish, I'm just pointing out some inaccuracy in your concerns.

Brent is a nice guy, don't let him intimidate you.
 

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Thanks for the pointers Wade. I am also concerned by the fact that this cornsnake breeder also "breeds" and sells Stickbugs, Geckos and many types of birds. I really don't think she is a professional breeder. She said that she breeds cornsnakes but when I emailed her, she told me that she bought these 3 snakes. Needless to say, I will be buying my next snake from Pete at comox.

It is true that we can't tell people how to keep their animals, but it would be nice sometimes if that were the case! Hopefully she won't think i'm a big jerk, and realize that I'm just trying to help her.
 
Amanda, I was just joshing you, you know that right? Stickbugs are great lizard food. I raised them for a while when I was breeding Chameleons. How big a fella is your husband?
 
Perhaps "breeder" was used too liberally, maybe not. I know there is someone in my area who breeds snakes of various kinds, but doesn't know a Creamsicle is a hybrid. Neither did the pet shop I bought him. There have been a few pet shops and a couple reptile shops in this town. They don't know corn snake morphs, co-hab, feed live... I think I'm just ditto-ing Wade.
I do find this worrisome however. When I first started I didn't know about CS.com. I bought my first three corns without considering future breeding (even as a possiblity). All three were bought because they were pretty, the Creamsicle was number three. When I wanted to breed and was discouraged by a good friend (but didn't listen) it didn't occur to me the market, my knowledge blah, blah, blah.
Pet shops buy wholesale from reputable breeders and re-sell without caring (some shop owners) about sex or morph, it's just getting the merchandise in the shop and re-sell.
 
airenlow said:
Why is it known as "joshing"? As a Josh, I have never understood that comment...
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I think it is called Joshing because it is just.....................On second thought that line of thinking was cruel and mean.


I don't know Josh, why do they call it that?
 
wade said:
I think it is called Joshing because it is just.....................On second thought that line of thinking was cruel and mean.


I don't know Josh, why do they call it that?
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He calls it Wading as in "you're in kind of deep now"
 
HAHA oh Wade, that flattery could go to a girl's head. Thank ya btw. And my hubby is big enough ;) He doesn't mind other men complimenting me though.
 
I am also concerned by the fact that this cornsnake breeder also "breeds" and sells Stickbugs, Geckos and many types of birds. I really don't think she is a professional breeder.
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I don't see myself as a "professional breeder", but I still breed Cornsnakes and have done for many years. Many actual professional breeders produce a range of animals. This isn't a cause for concern unless you have evidence of cruelty or neglect.

I really think you should step back. Husbandry concerns with no actual proof of cruelty, neglect or harm to animals, aren't really a reason to "Wade" in and start giving the benefit of your experience. Unsought advice is usually not well received.

I often recommend the Munson Plan to beginners as a very good starting point. It won't do harm for the vast majority of Corns and if a new keeper has no idea how to go about feeding, then it's an excellent reference point.

However, I'm also often found pointing out that these are guidelines and are not set in stone or the only way to do it. Just because a feeding regime departs from these guidelines, doesn't make a keeper bad unless their animals suffer because of it and they don't think to change what they're doing. You can't really go quoting the Munson Plan as gospel and labelling everyone who doesn't follow it, as bad keeper. Heaven knows, I'd be out on the cold very fast!
 
wade said:
You may not know this but there are some here who think Roy Munson is a god. I know him pretty well and can tell you for a fact that is not true. The Munson plan is great but not the final word and many people do not subscribe to it. I don't because it is way to complicated for my little brain. Every Tuesday I understand, every five days makes my head real.
Click to expand...

every Sunday is how i keep my snakes from starving! every 5 days for the teeny, tiny wee ones. the only reason i can remember every 5 days is because there's a recurring alarm set in my phone.
 
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