crimson/cross breed?

[Missy]

hello all
i have a female, diaga, whos a cross breed between a ratsnake, carolina corn and amel.
she isnt quite old or big enough yet, but her mother is an amel and her father is a cross breed between a ratsnake and carolina corn.

anyways i am going to get a crimson or butter male soon and when he is old enough i would like to breed the two of them, what morph shall i expect if i bred my diaga with the crimson?
and what morph if i bred diaga and a butter?

thanx in advance.

 

[tat2d1]

so she's a normal hybrid het amel. bred to a butter will give you half normal het butter (amel&caramel)and half amel het caramel.
a crimson is a hypo miami phase so breeding her to a crimson should give you normals het hypo and 50%poss het amel.

you'd have to be sure to let buyers know the offspring aren't pure corns.

 

[Missy]

so she's a normal hybrid het amel. bred to a butter will give you half normal het butter (amel&caramel)and half amel het caramel.
a crimson is a hypo miami phase so breeding her to a crimson should give you normals het hypo and 50%poss het amel.

you'd have to be sure to let buyers know the offspring aren't pure corns.

wow, thats confusing, i am so bad at morphs, lol, so my baby is a normal hybrid het amel, well never knew that, im always trying to explain to people what her parents are in which i own both the parents, well thank you very much for that tat2d1,

 

[wikkedkornman]

how can you not mention that they're not pure corns? that's just wrong! furthermore tainting the gene pool. thanks.

sorry to be an assh*le, but if you're going to breed,BE RESPONSIBLE!
If you don't understand the genetics, don't breed until you do. that's my opinion anyhow.

 

[Missy]

how can you not mention that they're not pure corns? that's just wrong! furthermore tainting the gene pool. thanks.

sorry to be an assh*le, but if you're going to breed,BE RESPONSIBLE!
If you don't understand the genetics, don't breed until you do. that's my opinion anyhow.

okaaaaay *take a deep breath*

this really peeved me off, do NOT judge me just from what you have read alright!?

okay 1) i did not breed them purposely, i was told they were both females, it was accidental

2) i personally do not see what the big deal is with not mentioning it to the reptile shop, all the hatchlings had the colours and looks of a cornsnake, even my male who was bred has everything from the cornsnake side.

3) i did NOT even know at that time that my male was a cross breed, alright?

so as much as i appreciate your thoughts on rushing in and accusing me of being irresponsible, i thnk you outta be a little less of an assh*le before you lash out okay?
and 4) at least i can learn from my experiences right.
just MY thoughts now.

 

[wikkedkornman]

2) i personally do not see what the big deal is with not mentioning it to the reptile shop, all the hatchlings had the colours and looks of a cornsnake, even my male who was bred has everything from the cornsnake side.

.

that's a problem right there. you see nothing wrong with it. i won't go into it any further, but some people do intentionally sell hybrids as purebreds. you see no big deal, but I, along with others i'm sure, see a VERY big deal in passing off hybrids (MUTTS) as purebreds.

you claim you didn't know though.........................

 

[Missy]

no i really didnt even know at the time. as i sold the hatchlings to a professional breeder, maybe he already knew they were not pure corns by looking at them and i couldnt as at that time i was new to the breeding scene of corns.
i did not come here to argue about whats happened in the past i came here to find out what morphs i would get by breeding my Diaga and a crimson or a butter.
thank you

one more thing ~ you say that some people make a big deal when a seller has sold them a purebred when its been a hybrid, i can agree i was a tad upset when i found out that my beloved male, scales, was not completely cornsnake. i can see your point but like i have already stated i was not aware of his parents at that time.

 

[Joejr14]

So, you sold the hatchlings to a professional breeder, or a pet store? Which is it?

Who cares if they had 'cornsnake markings'? What does that prove? People who dont understand genetics could probably have a grey rat passed off as an Anery.

Most people arent really fond of hybreds, and even more so when they're not properly sold as being just that. It IS very irresponsible to sell something off when you dont know what it is you're selling. Sorry to say that, but it's true.

 

[Missy]

So, you sold the hatchlings to a professional breeder, or a pet store? Which is it?

Who cares if they had 'cornsnake markings'? What does that prove? People who dont understand genetics could probably have a grey rat passed off as an Anery.

Most people arent really fond of hybreds, and even more so when they're not properly sold as being just that. It IS very irresponsible to sell something off when you dont know what it is you're selling. Sorry to say that, but it's true.

right, thats it! *throws hands up*

seriously what the hell is wrong with you people!? the bloke is a professional breeder who also owns his own store to sell his own hatchlings and other reptiles, not that this is anything to do with what my thread is about!
why the hell are you all laying into me? like i have stated a flipping hundred times i DID NOT know that my male was a hybrid! so now just leave the bloody subject alone on it. i WAS NOT selling them as corns just for the sake of it, i did not know what they were and i even told the bloke just that, he said it was okay he'd take them on anyway.

so NOW back to my original post, can i PLEASE for the love of god get some more opinions on what i would get if i bred my Diaga to a crimson or butter????

no more opinions on the flipping hybrid thing please as i will seriously having a nervous breakdown!

 

[limey]

while i dont mean to kepp this thread running, i would be very interested to know who sold you the hybrid and also took on the hybrid offspring, he/she doesnt sound liek they are being very responsible.

And with your breeding program for your snakes its going to be diffcult to predict what you are goin to get as hybrids throw off the normal "rules" as you wont have any idea what genes you are working with - one of the reasons people can be fairly against hybrids

 

[Hurley]

If you know now that the gal is a hybrid, than you're equipped to send them to new homes as such. The hybrid debate will never be "solved" and I wouldn't even try. The best you can do is try to represent them accurately to the new owners, and now you can.

Your gal sounds to me to be a normal hybrid het amel.

When bred to a butter, you'd expect 1/2 normal hybrids het amel and caramel, 1/2 amel hybrids het caramel.

When bred to a crimson (assuming it isn't also het amel), then you'd expect to get all normal hybrids, het for hypo and each with a 50% chance of also being het amel.

 

[Missy]

If you know now that the gal is a hybrid, than you're equipped to send them to new homes as such. The hybrid debate will never be "solved" and I wouldn't even try. The best you can do is try to represent them accurately to the new owners, and now you can.

Your gal sounds to me to be a normal hybrid het amel.

When bred to a butter, you'd expect 1/2 normal hybrids het amel and caramel, 1/2 amel hybrids het caramel.

When bred to a crimson (assuming it isn't also het amel), then you'd expect to get all normal hybrids, het for hypo and each with a 50% chance of also being het amel.

thank you very much for your reply hurley.
that helps a lot

 

[Missy]

while i dont mean to kepp this thread running, i would be very interested to know who sold you the hybrid and also took on the hybrid offspring, he/she doesnt sound liek they are being very responsible.

i brought my male, scales, from a reptile shop in enfield, london, they no longer sell snakes anymore. they were not exactly respectable there as i now know. as scales was my very first snake and i did not know about this site i did not know an awful lot.

the person who bought the hybrid hatchlings off of me, i still go to him for mice, etc, i will ask him what he did with the hatchlings and inform him of what they actually are now, all i told him was that i didnt know what they were, nothing about the hybrid gene.
half the time he does actually keep them for himself as his own pets, he has thousands, like i have already stated he breeds and sells for a living, he may not have even sold any, i sold him about 12. if he had done he should have a receipt of the buyers name and address, so then maybe he will give me their details and i can contact them to inform them, it sounds like a long shot but feel bad now as i remember how upset i was when i found out about scales, so they have a right to know what they have. anyways that ends that for now.

And with your breeding program for your snakes its going to be diffcult to predict what you are goin to get as hybrids throw off the normal "rules" as you wont have any idea what genes you are working with - one of the reasons people can be fairly against hybrids

this is why i wasnt very happy at all when i found out my male was not a complete corn. i can understand that completely now.
i was always under the impression he was a carmel or something, obviously now i know he isnt.

 

[Joejr14]

Thanks for the negative rep points, Missy. I guess whenever someone says something that you dont like, even when it's not attacking and just a comment, the way out is to run and give them negative rep points.

 

[Missy]

Thanks for the negative rep points, Missy. I guess whenever someone says something that you dont like, even when it's not attacking and just a comment, the way out is to run and give them negative rep points.

whatever!
you are all changing the subject of this thread, any more negative remarks on the hybrid subject i will be deleting every one of my posts as its not what i have came here to ask. thank you very much

 

[Serpwidgets]

Give me some negative rep, too.

Missy, people were trying to point out to you that they thought you were making an error in judgement, and they were only continuing on that subject because your reaction was to say it wasn't important. They disagreed with you, and attempted to explain why it is an important issue to people. Reacting to that with negative rep and threatening to delete your posts is, IMO, totally not cool.

 

[Joejr14]

whatever!
you are all changing the subject of this thread, any more negative remarks on the hybrid subject i will be deleting every one of my posts as its not what i have came here to ask. thank you very much

Excuse me, but I wasn't changing the subject. Whenever you advertise that you've got a hybrid and are planning on breeding it, people are going to assume the word and tell you to make sure that you properly advertise them as hybrids, and not pure corns. That is a fact, and if you're not mature enough to handle that without throwing a temper tantrum, giving people negative rep points and threatening to delete all of your posts.

Come on now, we're all adults, that's totally unnecessary. I didnt yell at you, or call you names, and there was no reason for the negative rep points. The fact remains that selling something that you have no idea what it is, is irresponsible. It is even more responsible to be breeding animals if you dont understand the genetics and are just selling them off. Now, I understand that you thought you had 2 females which is why that's a moot point because you didnt plan on having babies.

You asked a specific question regarding breeding your hybrid to a crimson or butter, and you got your answer.

However, it's my personal opinion that if you want to breed something, why not just get a pure corn, either a butter or crimson, and go from there? To each their own, but whatever.

I hope you learn to take things with a grain, because you're far too touchy in assuming that everyone on the board is out to get you or attack what you did.

 

[Missy]

oh my flipping good gracious, well im bloody sorry for defending myself when im being attacked by blasted people saying im irresponsible, you CANNOT make that judgement on me at all, you do not know me at all.
i never quite understood your posts when you were saying that its not important, i have replied by saying that i was gonna go back to the shop to try to sort this out and yet that seems to be no good for any of you. there is not a reason to carry this on if your gonna insult me about it, i am not immature, i only get defensive and tend to lash out when someone says something bad, my mum always taught me "if you have nothing nice to say then dont say nothing at all"! and i believe in that saying as i know that some poeple in this world are more touchy and do tend to take things to heart, and im one of those people, i have one of my girlies, Skitzy, very ill at the moment and have an awful lot of worry on my mind i do not like to come here and hear about all this, you have pointed out my mistake that i made 2 years ago, like i have stated quite a few times now i DO understand that it is important, and again, like ive already stated im going back to the shop to let the owner know what the hatchlings are and im going to try to correct my mistake then. look, i openly say im sorry for the rep points i was mad at the time, i do not want to argue about this, its petty really on my behalf. i get the message now. the owner does not ship anywhere and he is based in essex, england so the hatchlings would not have gone to far to find them. the majority of them actually went to my own relatives who are aware of what they are.
i will say no more on this subject i would like it now to be dropped, i got the answers i was looking for from tat2d and hurley.
thanx all for your input.

 

[wikkedkornman]

i just noticed that you gave me bad rep points. thanks.

 

[cka]

I think the smart thing would be to determine what exactly "Scales" is a hybrid of...On your signature line he's listed as a "Ratsnake X Carolina Corn"...Here in the States a lot of folks, especially in the South, still call corn snakes "red rat snakes"...I've seen pics of your corn (somewhere around here) and it did not look like any rat/corn cross i've seen, altho by no means am I an expert on the subject lol...

Kinda neither here nor there...If you suspect he may be a cross and sell the babies as pure corns, you are doing yourself and the hobby a discredit...There are many folks who take extreme care to keep their line of corns as pure as possible...