crypto out break at work

[Carinata]

Various parasites look like Crypto, hence why it's so hard to treat in the beginning stages. You may be giving your snake panacur but that's only stressing it even more which is allowing the Crypto to grow! Which is why it's best to insist on getting the tests done if you suspect crypto

 

[Lennycorn]

It does need to be tested but the case that Bob is referring to, The vet was sure that was the case because the snake had all of the symptoms. Once the vet did test it proved that some times symptoms are not always correct. So it is really important that if crypto is suspected to have the snake tested. Don't just assume it is because it may indeed be something treatable, basically.

Ok thank you.

Looks like experirnce is talking here!!

 

[cornbreadandmilk]

Out off all seriousness do i just have to dksinfect my hands or cloths also_ ? And was some one serious when they said theid whole body

 

[crotalis40741]

Out off all seriousness do i just have to dksinfect my hands or cloths also_ ? And was some one serious when they said theid whole body

As long as that is all that will come in contact with your snakes at home it is all you need to do. No you don't have to shave your entire body lol The frozen feeders at your work should be fine as long as you wash your hands before getting them to take home.

 

[Christen]

LOL No you don't have to shave and disinfect your whole body. I would disinfect your hands and arms and maybe your shirt, depending on how you were holding the animal.

 

[cornbreadandmilk]

As long as that is all that will come in contact with your snakes at home it is all you need to do. No you don't have to shave your entire body lol The frozen feeders at your work should be fine as long as you wash your hands before getting them to take home.

See theres the problem everyone at sork ten of us go through the feeders selecting them fod customers so that could mean their all infected........:noevil::nope: and trying to get them to xisinfect would be impossible. Btw i am very gulible when it comes to my snakes

 

[crotalis40741]

See theres the problem everyone at sork ten of us go through the feeders selecting them fod customers so that could mean their all infected........:noevil::nope: and trying to get them to xisinfect would be impossible. Btw i am very gulible when it comes to my snakes

I did some checking and could not really find any info on if freezing kills crypto. There was an old and I mean old thread on here that says no.

 

[cornbreadandmilk]

I did some checking and could not really find any info on if freezing kills crypto. There was an old and I mean old thread on here that says no.

well the first article you sent me said that at :angry01:113f:realhot: they would die so surely the way i thaw would kill them.

 

[Soulwind]

See, the problem I have with this is that now this store is knowingly selling infected (or at least potentially infected) animals. Almost certainly without informing the customers of the risk. Not only are they (effectively) commiting fraud against thier customers, they are also perpetuating the whole crypto problem at large.

[NOTE: not that I'm trying to point blame or anything at you cornbread ... as an employee, I realize there's not much you can do about it without getting fired]

I really wish it was possible to send in some kind of "tip" to animal control authorities, and that they would actually DO something about it even if you did. But as we all know, there aren't many authority figures out there who give 2cents about reptiles (other than banning them apparently).

 

[cornbreadandmilk]

See, the problem I have with this is that now this store is knowingly selling infected (or at least potentially infected) animals. Almost certainly without informing the customers of the risk. Not only are they (effectively) commiting fraud against thier customers, they are also perpetuating the whole crypto problem at large.

[NOTE: not that I'm trying to point blame or anything at you cornbread ... as an employee, I realize there's not much you can do about it without getting fired]

I really wish it was possible to send in some kind of "tip" to animal control authorities, and that they would actually DO something about it even if you did. But as we all know, there aren't many authority figures out there who give 2cents about reptiles (other than banning them apparently).

i agree with you and id love for them to get their act together.but at this point only a handful of people know and i am under the micro scope at the moment for having disagreements ... i am going in today so hopefully we can get some containment done......


there is also another issue

if anyone were to say that the store had crypto to a customer. then it was found that the store did not have it. then by telling a customer i would be committing slander against the store.

 

[Naagas]

Crypto can't be passed by casual contact. It is only transferred by feces.

Hydrogen Peroxide 6% kills crypto at 30 minutes.
Ammonia kills crypto at 12 hours.
Dessication (drying out) kills crypto at 24 hours.

So anything that has been dry for 24 hours is safe.
Use hydrogen peroxide as general sanitizer.
Sanitize everything else in a plastic bag with ammonia in it for at least 12 hours.

Helpful treatments for crypto:
Cow colostrum has been showing positive results in laboratory studies.
You can get this at a ranch store, such as IFA.

Pau d'Arco is great for helping reptiles get over parasitic infections.
ReptAid (not ReptiAid) is a great pre-mixed product with this in it.

The standard is 3 clean fecals to disprove the presence of Crypto.
This has been obtained with a regiment of cow colostrum and Pau d'Arco.

I think that the presence of Crypto is much more prevalent than we give it credit for. I think that if we all tested the entirety of our collections, we would find that most collections have crypto. The thing is that proper hygiene (cleaning vivs appropriately, washing hands, etc) and keeping snakes healthy basically keeps crypto dormant.
If a snake has an additional infection or other illness, then crypto will rear its head.

 

[Naagas]

No, freezing has no effect on crypto.
Moist heat quickly kills crypto... but how many of us have an autoclave handy?
A dishwasher will kill crypto, or a steam cleaner. 135 degrees F for 10 minutes minimum.

 

[diamondlil]

i agree with you and id love for them to get their act together.but at this point only a handful of people know and i am under the micro scope at the moment for having disagreements ... i am going in today so hopefully we can get some containment done......


there is also another issue

if anyone were to say that the store had crypto to a customer. then it was found that the store did not have it. then by telling a customer i would be committing slander against the store.

And if someone was to write that the store is selling infected animals then they could be charged with libel........

 

[cornbreadandmilk]

And if someone was to write that the store is selling infected animals then they could be charged with libel........

yeah sucks. hopefully it didnt transfer to i clean out every cage and washed it in pure ammonia let it sit then washed them out i also cleaned every bowl and everything they may have been in contact with ...so much work took close to 7 hours

 

[proileri]

Crypto can't be passed by casual contact. It is only transferred by feces.

Hydrogen Peroxide 6% kills crypto at 30 minutes.
Ammonia kills crypto at 12 hours.
Dessication (drying out) kills crypto at 24 hours.

This is correct info. Hydrogen peroxide at 6-7% is the most efficient chemical for crypto. Also, UV (UV-c) light irradiation kills crypto - although should be used in addition to chemicals, not alone.

Crypto is passed through fecal-oral route, so the way your snake could get it from you is poor personal hygiene after using the toilet and touching the food animals. I would suggest using hand sanitizers before handling the snake, and using tweezers to handle the food. Tweezers should be sanitized with hydrogen peroxide, too, of course.

No, freezing has no effect on crypto.
Moist heat quickly kills crypto... but how many of us have an autoclave handy?

For smaller objects, a pressure cooker with some water to form steam works as an autoclave. Typical autoclave temp and pressure are 1 bar and about 120 celcius, which are pretty much the common pressure cooker specs. 30 minutes is enough at this setting.

 

[AggielandReptiles]

Couple things I'd like to clarify.

1) Cryptosporidium is a highly host-adapted pathogen. This means that each species strongly prefers a single host. In reptiles, by far the most common isolate is C. serpintis. In many other mammals C. parvum is common, and in humans C. hominis. While there are certain species and subspecies (C. parvum for example) that tend to have a more broad host range, C. serpintis is NOT known to be zoonotic. Even if it was, Crypto in humans is generally a very mild, self-limiting disease except in the immunocompromised (HIV/AIDS, elderly, etc).

2) Cryptosporidium is an obligate GI pathogen. Interesting thing about this protozoa is that the entire life cycle can be completed in vivo. Most other GI parasites require shedding of oocysts, that then mature in the environment in order to become infective, and are passed fecal-oral. While fecal-oral transmission does occur with Crypto, autoinfection is much more common. When Crypto oocysts are passed in the feces, they are already sporulated, meaning they are instantly infective. This is why infections are so hard to treat...

3) The current "gold standard" for diagnosing crypto infections is detection of oocysts from the feces (either float or smear) using a Ziehl-Nielsson (acid-fast) stain. If done properly this test is very sensitive (detects positive infections well) but not very specific (can have false negatives). This is due to oocysts not being shed at a constant rate. The most likely reason why PCR didn't detect an infection in this case was due to lack of cross-reactivity. Most labs don't have PCR verified for any other species than C. parvum (most common in animals) or C. hominis (most common in humans). A C. serpintis infection would NOT BE DETECTED on a standard Crypto PCR.

4) As others have previously said, Crypto is very difficult to kill. Ammonia is by far the way to go. Steam sterilization of any containers will also render sporulated oocysts noninfective, as well as LONG periods of drying (more than 2 weeks, not 24 hours). Best way to prevent infection is to prevent cross-contamination through isolation/quarantine.

5) FINALLY, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, lets talk treatment. Unless the life of the reptile is in danger, it is NOT RECOMMENDED TO TREAT ANY COCCIDIA INFECTION IN REPTILES, including Cryptosporidium. The unfortunate reality is that there is no good treatment, and most commonly used parasiticides do more harm than good in our reptile species. The only drug that has been any evidence-based support for reducing shedding of sporulated oocysts in reptile species in Paromomycin (Humantin), an aminoglycosidic antibiotic. Remember though, Crypto can be auto-infective, so this is not a "CURE" but rather a "TREATMENT". Some success has also been shown with sulfa-antibiotics as well.

Any questions, please let me know and I'd be happy to explain further!

 

[Naagas]

I would agree completely with treatment- or lack thereof.

I would never give antibiotics or parasiticides to a crypto infected reptile... death would probably be the result.

I am currently wrapping up an unofficial experiment that I did with the latest treatments on Crypto.
I received a batch of 5 baby ball pythons. I got fecals done on them.... the tests came back positive for a C.parvum and crypto.

One, I treated as normal.... following vet-recommended treatment of daily electrolyte soaks, keeping everything clean, and hoping for the best.

One I did the next step up of what my vet recommended- which included tube feeding and antibiotics and parasite drugs.

The other three, I gave regular doses of calf colostrum, pau d'arco, probiotics along with the rehydration soaks and keeping everything immaculately clean.

The first two died.

The last three have now been clean of all parasites, including crypto, for 1 fecal.
They are eating, gaining weight, and have no symptoms.

I am planning on getting all of this info together in a more formal manner, but as of now, I am fairly confident that the antibodies in cow colostrum are effective at allowing the reptile to survive until the crypto infestation passes.

There is no way to internally kill crypto.... in humans, we just get really, really sick until we pass all the spores and are no longer infected.
Reptiles have a very hard time outlasting major infections. They have immune systems which are not made to fight long-lasting infections.
This is why an increase of heat is recommended when a reptile is sick... in order to keep the immune system fighting instead of letting the reptile go into a low-energy-spending place.

Here is the study on Bovine Colostrum and Crypto that gave me the inspiration to try it:
http://www.anapsid.org/cryptosporidium.html

PS.... I realize that saying that Crypto was present in my collection could be regarded as a reason to doubt the health of my collection. However, these were non-corns and were quarantined very strictly away from the rest of the collection.
I follow strict sanitation procedures and at no time were any of the healthy animals exposed to any intestinal parasites.

It is my opinion that Crypto is much less of a worry in spreading through a collection than things like mites, which are air-borne.
Although mites are easily cured and there still is no cure for crypto.

Also, I have a feeling that if all breeders did fecals on all their snakes, we would quickly find that most of us have crypto and other parasites within our collections. Parasites can be completely asymptomatic until the snake is stressed somehow and then the health starts to decline.

I am planning on doing a small number of random fecals on my snakes every year from now on. I think that I will start with one per rack.
I think that by doing random fecals, it will be 1)affordable and 2)give a good overview of the health of the collection.
I'm lucky that there is a diagnostic lab for vets down the road from me... where they do reasonably priced fecals and are very thorough.

Aggieland- I would love your thoughts on this, since it sounds like you know more about Crypto and vet science in general than I do.

 

[Naagas]

Also, it is good to know about the dessication needing to be 2 weeks.
I got the 24 hours from the CDC.
It is not comforting that the Center for Disease Control gave me inaccurate info. I'm glad the Hydrogen Peroxide and Ammonia were correct.