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does yoour snake

jaxom1957 said:
Jungle corns are a hybrid, the result of breeding two different species, corn snake, Pantherophis (aka Elaphe) x king snake, Lampropeltis. Creamsicles are not a hybrid, but rather an intergrade, the result of breeding two subspecies of Pantherophis guttata: P. g. guttata x P. g. emoryi. Corn snakes and Great Plains rat snakes share the same genus and species. A mule (horse, Equus caballus x donkey, E. asinus) is a hybrid, a creamsicle is just a "mutt" (canine x canine).
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Here's the real story. Creamsicles ARE hybrids. Corn snakes (Pantherophis guttatus) and Great Plains rat snakes (Pantherophis emoryi) are now considered to be two separate species. Therefore, breeding them together creates hybrids. There are currently NO recognized subspecies of corn snakes, hence there is no such thing as "P. guttata guttata".
 
jaxom1957 said:
Jungle corns are a hybrid, the result of breeding two different species, corn snake, Pantherophis (aka Elaphe) x king snake, Lampropeltis. Creamsicles are not a hybrid, but rather an intergrade, the result of breeding two subspecies of Pantherophis guttata: P. g. guttata x P. g. emoryi. Corn snakes and Great Plains rat snakes share the same genus and species. A mule (horse, Equus caballus x donkey, E. asinus) is a hybrid, a creamsicle is just a "mutt" (canine x canine).
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Roy Munson said:
Here's the real story. Creamsicles ARE hybrids. Corn snakes (Pantherophis guttatus) and Great Plains rat snakes (Pantherophis emoryi) are now considered to be two separate species. Therefore, breeding them together creates hybrids. There are currently NO recognized subspecies of corn snakes, hence there is no such thing as "P. guttata guttata".
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FYI: Jaxom1957 sent me a PM politely asking for sources for the info I gave here. To be honest, I had a tough time coming up with much of anything. I'm going to start a new thread on this subject, but I wanted to acknowledge here that I may have been mistaken in asserting my position so definitely.
 
Roy Munson said:
FYI: Jaxom1957 sent me a PM politely asking for sources for the info I gave here. To be honest, I had a tough time coming up with much of anything. I'm going to start a new thread on this subject, but I wanted to acknowledge here that I may have been mistaken in asserting my position so definitely.
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As Roy and I have discovered in researching our different points of view, there is an ongoing conversation in the scientific community about the taxonomy of North American ratsnakes, including corns, Baird's, Great Plains, etc. Valid evidence exists to support both opinions, so we would all do well to keep an open mind.

Roy - I throughly enjoyed the conversation :)
 
I too researched a bit and found conflicting information. I found some that listed the cornsnake as a subspecies of the rat and some that listed the cornsnake as a seperate species when they changed the designation from elaphe to pantherophis. I think my eyes are going to start rolling around my head again :) No matter.....hybrid or intergrade...the buyer needs to be informed!
 
MegF. said:
No matter.....hybrid or intergrade...the buyer needs to be informed!
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On that point, I think we all agree. Whether it be intergrade/hybrid, kinks or possible hets, breeders have a duty to be honest and forthcoming about what they are selling. Whatever sales are lost because the buyer changed his or her mind with the new information should be more than offset by those who buy from you because your forthright reputation has been established.
 
Wow. I guess we do learn something new every day. Well, I won't be breeding corns anytime soon, so I won't worry about it too much. ;)
 
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