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feeding live

Iris, I had read that link some time ago about not thawing in hot water. I was puzzled too, as that is not my experience. I thaw my mice in a plastic bag that I immerse in warm (almost too warm to the touch) water. The mice stay dry and after a little while they are thawed and warm. It takes longer to thaw adult mice, obviously, and I add more hot water to the bath every so often to maintain a warm temperature. I think it's important to keep the mice dry, it seems the snakes prefer them that way and the smell is not washed away (it's less disgusting to the human handler, too).

About pre-killed vs. thawed: my corns don't care one way or the other, but my boa sure thinks there is a world of difference, even with the thawed mouse warmed to body temperature, and coming from the same colony as the pre-killed one. I guess she inherited her dislike for leftovers from me...
 
thawing in water

I've always thawed my mice out in a cup (or now bucket) of warm water. I always dry them with a paper towel and with the bigger mice I let them sit under a heat lamp for a few minutes to dry off more. I've never had a problem with it. In fact I think the little guys sometimes prefer their pinkies washed. Plus, it helps clean off bits of bedding or other things that sometimes are sticking to the mice. Just my $0.02
 
Hm...well I supposed for pinkies it doesn't really matter too much but larger rodents will have fur/hair and stuff and I guess they will hold a lot of water as well as all the water that seeps into the mouse.
I will have to try Liz's method of putting a mouse in a bag and then into the hot water when my snake is big enough to eat rodents with fur. Or like Mo said, let them dry out for a little under a lamp. Thanks :)
 
I use the plastic Zip-Loc bag in hot water method to thaw mice, too. One time, though, there must have been a little hole in the bag that I didn't notice. When I took the bag out, the mouse was wet. Not soaked like it had been directly in the water, but definitely wet. The water sure didn't wash away the scent -- that mouse was the stinkiest one ever! And Frank seemed very happy to have it, just like always. :)
 
Oh that's a funny story..
And that's a good idea, Peter

I keep forgetting that the smell of my pinkies will be NOTHING compared to the smell of actual furry mice. And to think my mom can't stand the thought of little baby mice in the freezer let alone big adult full grown ones in a few years. ;)
 
i can barely feed the frozen mice they look so cute my cat thinks so to when im thawing them hes been known steal the odd one yuk
 

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I thaw my adult mice directly in hot water, and lightly dry them with a paper towel. Both of my snakes readily take them.
 
Isnt it illegal to feed anythng live mice. im from the UK, maybe its different in america, is it illegal ?
 
Stuart,

in the USA feeding of live is not illegal, and is the choice of the owner.

in the UK the rules are rather more strict, although slightly ambiguous. You are not allowed to train animals to hunt live, but you can feed live in certain circumstances I believe such as if they refuse anything else. Hence, if you can get your snake eating frozen/thawed or freshly prekilled, you have to take that option.

Skye
 
i agree what the hell is natural about taking a live mouse and putting it in with the snake, its artificial . Why cause unnecessary stress to another animal and potentially to your own if injury occurs.
 
I'm going to stay neutral on this issue. Even though I feed f/t myself, I really don't believe people that feed live should be critisized about how they are a bad herp keeper and such. If after knowing all the consequences and they want to feed live, it's their choice wheter it's just to see the snake kill the mouse or for other reasons. As a herper, they have made the decision to feed live and we who feed f/t shouldn't always be butting in their way saying that feeding live is bad. It's just one of those things that you have to see both sides to understand.
 
Spitfire...

I agree with you. I wholeheartedly support feeding F/T, though. I do have one snake that absolutely will not eat F/T or fresh-killed. She gets live...
 
I agree Spitfire, wholeheartedly. I consider myself a combination feeder for the most part. I don't feed live adult mice unless absolutely necessary. I use f/t adults or pre-kill my own stock for feeding my adult snakes.

My younger snakes (hatchlings up to yearlings) get live pinks on up to crawlers, which are fully haired but still have their eyes closed. Even then I supervise every feeding and if a problem arises, I'll take the appropriate measures to correct it. But once the baby mice have their eyes open, I do pre-kill or I freeze my own food.

I've found my snakes tend to regurge a whole lot less..and actually don't regurge at all on live prey. Whereas the frozen/thawed I have will generally give me 1-2 regurges per feeding session. Maybe I have a bad batch of mice that I ordered, who knows.

I've also found that my growth rates increased with feeding live prey to my younger snakes. It seems that the frozen food was merely tiding them over without giving them any nutrients with which to grow. Once I got them started on live, they grow like weeds.

But make no mistake I don't feel irresponsible for feeding live to my younger snakes. I don't take thrill in watching a baby mouse that I watched being born and raised having the life squeezed from its body. I take all precautions to minimize the already small threat of a problem occuring. But once the mice have their eyes open I generally feel that their teeth are developed enough to do damage, so I don't take the risk beyond that point unless absolutely necessary. And I think the few people I've befriended on this forum and in this hobby can back up those statements.

I know we all try to do whats best for our snakes (and everyone else's as well). But sometimes you just cannot talk reason into a tree stump. Once people have made up their mind, they've made up their minds and there's nothing you nor I can do to change that. Its better to spend the time hoping that every meal that their snake has is an uneventful one.
 
Well said Taceas!!!

I wanted to elaborate on my post above. I didn't really have the time to when I first posted.

As stated in my post above, I prefer feeding F/T to my snakes in order to minimize the risk to my snakes. I will feed live when necessary and have on occasion thought about switching completely to live. Everytime I consider it, I weigh out the pros and cons. The cons always win out and I stick to F/T.

I feel that, while it is good for us to suggest that other people feed F/T, we can't force our opinions on them. I get very tired of seeing people get bashed because they choose to feed live prey to their snakes. I think it is an individual decision.

I also want to point out something about the pictures and stories that people have posted regarding snakes that have been injured or killed due to feeding live prey...those incidences are very rare if the feedings are supervised. The picture of the snake that had been totally mauled by the rat...that owner HAD to of left the rat in with the snake unsupervised. Even the story about the hamster killing the snake wasn't a good scenario...the live prey should not all be dropped in at once. If a person is feeding live, only one mouse/rat should be placed in with the snake in order to lessen the risk of anything bad happening. Just a thought...what if all of those other hamsters hadn't been distracting the snake? Would the snake have been more successful at getting his chosen prey?

Once people have made up their mind, they've made up their minds and there's nothing you nor I can do to change that. Its better to spend the time hoping that every meal that their snake has is an uneventful one.
Click to expand...
AMEN TO THAT!!!
 
I think one bit of advice might help those who have a snake that refuses to eat f/t mice. Try feeding pinky or fuzzy rats. You get a meal that is the right size, but with no danger of injury to the snake. Then wean them to f/t. You might also find it easier to wean the snake to f/t rats than to f/t mice.

I have another caution about rats. Be careful if you decide to breed rats along with mice. It seems that rats are very prone to a respiratory infection, and this will infect your mouse colony and make them infertile. If you get rats to breed, quarantine them, and check for sneezing, and get rid of them if they are sneezers.

Mark
 
i feed F/t to my corn. I take tem from the freezer (in a sandwich baggie) let it sit out to defrost for a while and then run it under warm water to get it a bit warm. No problemsm feeding.
 
Not to be rude or anything but, we were actually talking about why you should or shold not feed live and not whether you feed f/t or live. There have also been many past threads about that topic.
 
shup spit fire, your just trying to get your posts up, if it was your thread then fair enough post that, put what started out as a simple thread has turned into a great thread, and good to read,
 
I'm pretty sure "shup" is a typo for shut-up. If so, then I think that you're entirely out of line, Stuart.

I agree that Spitfire's post was a little bit coarse, but people can and do make mistakes. It's a part of life.

Spitfire's other post was completely in line with this thread. Had you read the way people who feed live were verbally bashed, then maybe you would see the relevance of his post. He wrote a very well thought out post, and now you're bashing him for apparently supporting his fellow herpers in whatever method they choose feed their snakes with.

And as far as getting his post number up? For what? Rich disabled the posting to change your title. If it were a means to get his number up, then it'd be some silly little post about nothing at all. Maybe it's the whole fact that he has more posts than you. Well then, you need to start lashing out at most of the forum. Hmm?

Maybe in Britain they have a law that forbids people from rational free-thinking, as well as the choice of what prey to feed their snakes.
 
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