Adam & Eve
Gotta love those herps
could any1 describe what they use as substrate, housing, etc.? I haven't bred them yet, but just ahead of time...
Thanks!
Thanks!
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hatchling housing...
- Thread starter Adam & Eve
- Start date
Mike@boakingdom
The Fanatical Hobbyist
I use paper towels for substrate, a folded over paper towel for hiding spots, disposable plasic water dishes, and plastic containers for housing.
For babies I'm keeping just long enough to sell, trade, or give away, I use Zip-Lock food storage boxes (you can see them on the lower shelf in the left side of this pic)
For babies I plan to keep and raise up, rubbermaid "shoe boxes" are good for their first year...
For babies I'm keeping just long enough to sell, trade, or give away, I use Zip-Lock food storage boxes (you can see them on the lower shelf in the left side of this pic)
For babies I plan to keep and raise up, rubbermaid "shoe boxes" are good for their first year...
Last edited:
Mike@boakingdom
The Fanatical Hobbyist
Khaman said:
They are the 1.1 US gallon size. They use to be stocked in just about every store you can think of, now they are very hard to find.
Mike@boakingdom
The Fanatical Hobbyist
Khaman said:
I just looked on the bottom of these, they are 0286. I've heard there are places online you can order them from, but I haven't found any yet.
Meg....I'll email you Monday and we'll set up a shipping day
Jicin
Corn love
Yeah but what untill their big? My snakes cruise the viv for hours on end! Usually there awake at about 21:00 hour and when i go to bed at 2 am their still climbing and cruising and digging and whatever.
They however can only get a drink and circle around in their plastic storage container. That's all. How can any creature be happy? I can only imagine their alive. Nothing more. Not meaning to offend at all. It's my opinion and i ain't telling anyone to shut up (You know who you are! Sending me nasty PM's just because you disagree. It's a free country) I just feel so sorry for them.
They however can only get a drink and circle around in their plastic storage container. That's all. How can any creature be happy? I can only imagine their alive. Nothing more. Not meaning to offend at all. It's my opinion and i ain't telling anyone to shut up (You know who you are! Sending me nasty PM's just because you disagree. It's a free country) I just feel so sorry for them.
CAV
Dazed and Cornfused
Jicin, you're confusing freedom of expression with correctness of opinion
In order to understand the needs of reptiles you need to understand their natural behaviors. Anyone that herps in natural settings can attest to two basic observations:
1. Snakes are generally solitary creatures by nature. They don't live in communal colonies. Multiple snakes = Competition for limited food sources.
2. They prefer tight enclosed places because it creates security. This is how they were programmed to act. In their native habitat, snakes are found under cover or in tight brush. They do not cruise around in the open, they seek shelter. Open spaces = Increased likelihood of predation.
You are trying to apply human needs and desires to non-human creatures. Things that make you comfortable are based upon your needs. Things that make a snake comfortable are based upon his needs.
In order to understand the needs of reptiles you need to understand their natural behaviors. Anyone that herps in natural settings can attest to two basic observations:
1. Snakes are generally solitary creatures by nature. They don't live in communal colonies. Multiple snakes = Competition for limited food sources.
2. They prefer tight enclosed places because it creates security. This is how they were programmed to act. In their native habitat, snakes are found under cover or in tight brush. They do not cruise around in the open, they seek shelter. Open spaces = Increased likelihood of predation.
You are trying to apply human needs and desires to non-human creatures. Things that make you comfortable are based upon your needs. Things that make a snake comfortable are based upon his needs.
Jicin
Corn love
How do you know their needs? My snakes have plenty of hiding spaces. And they move from one to the other. That's natural. That's how they move in the wild. In these plastic containers their trapped. They have one hide and no other option. I never know in wich hide i find my snakes in the morning. They can choose what they find the most comfertable.
Don't get me wrong. I am not saying i know more of their needs then you do. I may even be totally wrong. But i try to observe and in their viv i try to match their natural habitat. I will never succeed but i try to get as close as i can.
Before i bought my snakes i would probably have just accepted the plastic storage containers as beeing 'the best way' but now i'm more and more against the whole idea.
Think about it like this. Even untill this day we learn new things about how to treat out dogs and cat's better. And for how many thousands of years do we have them? Thousands of years. And there much more like us. Because they have mimic. And speech. And they can bark or miauw. Reptiles cannot. They have totally other needs then reptiles ofcource but it's much easier to see when their happy and when their not.
How do you see that with a reptile? Do we assume they simply don't have anything complicated at all? Pretty much like many still believe fish don't have pain because they cannot scream when we catch them on a fishhook? There living creatures non the less. Not beeing ill is different that beeing happy.
How much do we really know about reptiles? Besides that when they shed in one piece, their pooh looks good and they don't regurge there obviously as happy as can be? How will we look back on reptile care a few decades from now? All i want to do is understand how my snakes feel the best.
Were not done with improving on the best ways of reptile care. We should seek to care for them better as we learn more. And never stop to try and learn because the snake lives.
Don't get me wrong. I am not saying i know more of their needs then you do. I may even be totally wrong. But i try to observe and in their viv i try to match their natural habitat. I will never succeed but i try to get as close as i can.
Before i bought my snakes i would probably have just accepted the plastic storage containers as beeing 'the best way' but now i'm more and more against the whole idea.
Think about it like this. Even untill this day we learn new things about how to treat out dogs and cat's better. And for how many thousands of years do we have them? Thousands of years. And there much more like us. Because they have mimic. And speech. And they can bark or miauw. Reptiles cannot. They have totally other needs then reptiles ofcource but it's much easier to see when their happy and when their not.
How do you see that with a reptile? Do we assume they simply don't have anything complicated at all? Pretty much like many still believe fish don't have pain because they cannot scream when we catch them on a fishhook? There living creatures non the less. Not beeing ill is different that beeing happy.
How much do we really know about reptiles? Besides that when they shed in one piece, their pooh looks good and they don't regurge there obviously as happy as can be? How will we look back on reptile care a few decades from now? All i want to do is understand how my snakes feel the best.
Were not done with improving on the best ways of reptile care. We should seek to care for them better as we learn more. And never stop to try and learn because the snake lives.
CAV
Dazed and Cornfused
I agree with some of your points and respect your opinions.
I personally take my observations not from "the viv" but from the field. Instead of trying to discern what might be appropriate for their captive environment, I try to replicate the conditions that are natural and instinctive. Natural habitat doesn't equal natural conditions. This provides for better husbandry IMO.
You ask how can we be sure we "know their needs?". That is simple: because they live, grow, reproduce, shed, eat, and thrive in captive conditions. If their needs weren't being met, they wouldn't survive this process.......
I personally take my observations not from "the viv" but from the field. Instead of trying to discern what might be appropriate for their captive environment, I try to replicate the conditions that are natural and instinctive. Natural habitat doesn't equal natural conditions. This provides for better husbandry IMO.
You ask how can we be sure we "know their needs?". That is simple: because they live, grow, reproduce, shed, eat, and thrive in captive conditions. If their needs weren't being met, they wouldn't survive this process.......
Jicin
Corn love
I don't understand how you draw your conclusions from living in the wild to living in a plastic storage container.
Like i said. Surviving is a little different then beeing happy. Sure the snake lives. I can see that. But is it happy or not? Few creatures die from unhappiness. Don't you strive for better conditions for pet snakes? I would like to buy a cat. However i live on the 9th floor in a 2 room appartment and am away nearly the whole day. The cat won't die, but won't be happy either. Isn't it the same for a snake? It won't die in a plastic container but would prefer living in another place?
Like i said. Surviving is a little different then beeing happy. Sure the snake lives. I can see that. But is it happy or not? Few creatures die from unhappiness. Don't you strive for better conditions for pet snakes? I would like to buy a cat. However i live on the 9th floor in a 2 room appartment and am away nearly the whole day. The cat won't die, but won't be happy either. Isn't it the same for a snake? It won't die in a plastic container but would prefer living in another place?
Khaman
Headed for rehab.
The true test of whether an animal has its needs met is if they breed or not. I remember reading articles from the 50's that stated that corn snakes would not breed in captivity. That was because their need were not being met adults were housed in roughly 15 quart containers and they were not being burmated thus they did not breed. Jicin I am not saying you are wrong, I used to feed the same way every one of my corns had at least a 20 long and several hides. Then the more research I did and the more field herping I did I realized that if I was going to have 20+ snakes I would need a rack system. I have seen no difference in how they act since I have built racks.
CAV
Dazed and Cornfused
Jicin, you're still trying to equate floor space with meeting needs and happiness. These two topics simply have no correlation when addressing corn snake husbandry.
You have no personal experience with this subject upon with to base your opinion or observations. Many of us do. We'll all just agree to disagree.
You have no personal experience with this subject upon with to base your opinion or observations. Many of us do. We'll all just agree to disagree.