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hatchling housing...

I have to agree with CAV, the only difference is that I never posted about your responses. It only sounds like to me that you seem to take some things personal. Not many on this forum know how to respond to it.

I am not sure if its a language barrier or what, Jicin but to me your english is very good.

But you really do jump the gun on alot of topics. You talk at people and not to them. Which gives you an arrogant demeanor. I don't know you personally but from the forums I very much see the same things CAV has posted about.
 
I don't meant to come of as arrogant. And sometimes i completely disagree yes. Like for instance i will speak up to a snake owner who cannot, or does not want, to pay for vet treatment. I do not come up, call them a troll, or search the whole forum for 'evidence'. And that definately does not happen a lot. I've got 300 posts!

If you agree with CAV then please read the whole topic and then point it out to me. Strangely he thinks he knows better then a vetrenarian. I'm sorry but it takes *years* to become a vet. Then a few more to become a reptile expert. If he tells me things about pooh drying up in a snakes belly (wich can also be found in the book "What's wrong with my snake") or canibalism i feel i am justified in posting here. I do not need to qualify CAV his posting standards.
And if i very understandibly misunderstand i post about 'getting a snake out of the heat' (I life in Holland. I don't know where TX lies of even what temperatures are there) i don't need to get my ears washed by CAV. To me *that* is arrogant.
 
Just as an innocent bystander....

It seems to me that this thread as turned into quite a mudslinging match. I don't want to insult anyone, but I think that everyone should step back and calm down a bit. This will go on forever if insults keep flying. One person gets insulted, insults back, that person gets doubly insulted and returns the favor...It's gotta stop somewhere.

CAV, you've got some good points, but some are taken a bit out of context. Yes, Jicin told someone to put a heat pack in with the snake on a car trip--however, the person's question was about how to keep the snake warm. She gave some very good advice, as long as she wasn't expected to know that Texas is rather warm this time of year. She does try to help out, given the knowledge that she has. For thsi particular thread, I think it was overkill to jump in immediately and say she was wrong for voicing her opinion--"you're confusing freedom of expression with correctness of opinion". Everyone makes mistakes, and they should be gently guided in the right direction instead of immediately yelled at for being wrong. This should go both ways.

Now, I may have overstepped my bounds by butting into someone else's argument, but I've noticed people have been arguing a lot lately. I don't know if this has always gone on, but I think we need to realize that owning snakes is a learning experience. People do what works for them, and they shouldn't be blamed for using a method that works best for their situation. The reason they come here is to learn more. No use wasting time slinging insults back and forth.
 
One point that I feel needs to be addressed is the issue of a corn snakes feelings. Happiness?.........I don't think that a snakes brain is capable of emotions any more then an ant's brain is. Snakes are driven by instinct and need. Do you really think a snake 'LIKES' a natural branch better then a toilet paper tube?
Just ask your snake to blink twice if he's happy. They must think I'm stupid because when I ask them that they just stare at me! ;)
 
How do we know if a snake is happy? The only gauge we really can use is how healthy is it, Is it eating well breeding well ect. Other then that who can say one way is better then the other. The helthiest snakes I have seen have been those kept in small contianers stored in racks. My only concern with those that feel my way of keeping them is wrong. Is that they will push for laws agianst the way I keep my snakes or laws that would make it illegal for me to keep them at all. I know thats not what the thread was about , but thats what comes to mind when I read it.
BTW not all vets are that reptile savey and medicine is one thing husbandry is another.
 
Hello all,

I've been reading this thread and just have to say that I truly believe that Jicin's heart is in the right place. She seems to have a passion for her snakes that carries over into her advice. Some posts I have read have come across quite harsh. If her information provided isn't correct, that is another issue. I just hope that visitors to this forum understand that any advice received is variable. And that hopefully they can support what they take away from here with additional research or a call to a vet if necessary. Or at least get an idea of folks who do have more experience for their advice.

I have to admit that when I bought my first corn just in March, I was guilty of wanting to attach emotional attributes to him. But just in observation and the amount of research I have done, I realize that we cannot attribute characteristics of our species with theirs.

Yes, one of my snakes currently has a 60 gallon viv now -- does he need it? Probably not. He spends most of his time in his hide, in about 1/3 the space of his viv. I'll have a few more snakes by the end of this month, and they most certainly will not all get a viv that size or I'll have to move!

My best advice to Jicin, with all due respect, your opinion is valued. It just isn't always necessary to sway everyone that way or beat it to death. It is sometimes better for a variety of responses so that visitors can take what they need and make a more educated decision. Isn't that what a forum is for? :shrugs:
 
Agreed Babbaloo. We can disagree with each other and still remain polite and positive. Plenty of people disagree with me keeping more than one Corn in the same viv, but this isn't a personal attack on me. Everyone here has the best interests of their snakes at heart otherwise we wouldn't be here. I'm just glad to have access to such a pool of knowledgeable and enthusiastic (but maybe less knowledgable) colleagues to offer help and advice when I need it. A range of information is always useful, rather than having one person or group's view, shouted down by another.

Whether you agree with me or disagree on any point, I still value all of your opinions and I thank you for taking the time to post them here.
 
Oh i do believe snakes have feelings. I do believe any animal can be happy or sad (well, except maby flies and worms ;) In my opinion, these are basic emotions. More complex emotions like love or hate or regret probably only exsist in humans. Though maby primates and smarter animals like dolhins and such may have them
No it indeed does not matter if there paper rolls or whatever in their vivs. In fact, mine often sleep in their paper rolls. I don't take it overboard and say they are more human or anything. I just say they can be happy or unhappy.

I think it's sad if people here think theres nothing more then some instincst and chemical reactions are going on. And as long as you give it the right fuel the pet keeps going. And there as happy in a cheap plastic cage without any more stimulance then a bowl of water. Because they are not. It's sad if some can't see that because they can't make sounds, or have facial expressions. And that that image is beeing fed to new keepers.
 
Unfortunately Jicin, if there weren't herpers who cared for them in rack systems, you and I both probably wouldn't even have our snakes unless we went out and caught them on our own. Perhaps if you visited with a local breeder you could get an idea of how they are cared for and see for yourself that they are probably quite "happy." Could you imagine a breeder setting up mini-vivs for all of their hatchlings?

I know you are passionate about the care of your snakes, and I can appreciate that. But if you really love your snakes that much, then just set them free....just don't judge those who make this hobby so enjoyable for all of us. They do so with a lot of care, cost and diligence -- just as you do.
 
It's not just an image being fed to anyone, it is basic science.

I'm not saying that we should mistreat our animals, just understand them and not assign emotions to something that can not have them.

If you want to approach this as a pet owner, fine. Do what you can to make yourself feel good about it. No problem here.

On this part we dissagree, snakes have no feelings. If you think you can prove it otherwise, I'm willing to listen.

Here's something to think about:
When feeding, I had an adult snake shoot out of the tub, bite my arm and constrict my wrist. Why wouldn't he let go? I had to put him under cold water to get him to release. Why?
 
I can imagine a breeder would keep them in small racks for a while. When i bread my snakes i will probably put them in small racks for a while. But then i would not sell them to anyone who i doubt to take great care of them. Your probably right about setting them free. It is definately the best for the snakes. I know i am wrong in keeping them in the fist place. But i try to make up.

Clint Boyer it would be nice if such a study would be made. However, i have no idea how to prove an animal has feelings. I just can't imagine them not having them.
But then again, you cannot prove they have no feelings non? I prefer to give them the benefit of the doubt.

About the biting thing. I never said they were intelligent :D On the other arm (hand ;) perhaps he was trying to tell you something ;) But seriously, a dog, or a gorilla or any other creature could bite your arm. That doesn't have anything to do with having feelings or not. Hye, i bite arms on a regulair bases. Though perhaps that says more about my intelligence ;)
 
Jicin said:
I am *not* a troll :mad: I am a member just like you. And i have as much right to voice my opinion as anyone else.
Click to expand...

I think it is your blunt way of responding in threads. Posts like 'How cruel' or something of that tendency really really give troll impressions. It's ok to have a strong opinion but it seems you make a job out of disagreeing and trying to get people appologize for being 'wrong' at all costs. And the people who have the patience to start a debat with you are far from treated with respect. I would suggest you to read posts more openminded and proof read your responses before hitting the button. I love seeing Dutch people on this forum but I have to admit I have been avoiding threads where you participate.
 
In fairness, that was more an observation than an insult Jicin, and your reaction to it illustrates the point being made here.

It's great that you're willing to participate actively here, but you do tend to be quite "up front" - very quick to criticise and condemn. You do need to kick back a bit and admit that occasionally other people just do things differently. This isn't an insult to you or a slur on your abilities as a Corn keeper, just a difference of opinion. Sometimes maybe neither side is "right" or "wrong" - just different.

Any exchange of views is valuable and can be achieved without giving - or taking - unnecessary offence.
 
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