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heat tape???

cornsnakekid92

cornsnakekid92

trouser snake
i now use a uth but i was wondering, does heat tape work that well? and how do u kno what sizt to get? could you please tell me how much i would need for a 20l. also do u guys know of any good suppliers of reptile stuff? i need them to ship to the us.
 
Heat tape for a single tank isn't really fiscally worthwhile. Tape is much better suited for use with multiple housing systems.

I always use Beanfarm for my dry good needs.
 
Heating one cage is perfect! I use 11" for my 20 gallons and bigger and then 3" for the smaller tanks.. Heat tape is suited for every application where heat is needed.. Using a peice of flexwatt(heat tape) for one cage is alot cheaper then buying a prefab undertank heater... Which would be "fiscally worthwhile"
 
The only problem I've encountered with using heat tape on a single vivarium is finding the right wattage to heat the tank appropriately, which means purchasing several wattages to test, and even when you do find the right wattage you may need to control the temperature with a thermostat, which adds money onto the overall cost. I use the heat tape with a rack setup and find it to be very cost effective and it works like a hot damn. For a couple of my single vivs I use the UTH setup because it generally does not put out enough heat to burn the snake and therefore you don't need to use a thermostat.
 
Alll reptile heating elements HAVE to be used with a thermostat. No matter is your using a peice of flexwatt or a kane heatmat you have to use a thermostat... Not using one is taking a chance on your safety, your homes and the animal in the cage...
 
Sorry justcage, I disagree. Although it is a good idea to use a thermostat with the flexwatt or other types of heat tape, and I do use them, a low wattage piece of flex tape or a UTH used with appropriate air circulation and a buffer between the tape or UTH and the snake, will not need a thermostat (eg. a piece of reptile carpet, astro turf under the substrate, or a flat rock on top of the area). A thermostat in that case becomes overkill IMO and is a useless piece of equipment. Only people who manufacture and/or sell the heating products push the idea of using a thermostat with every type of heating equipment. It gives them more sales and in my experience even they have trouble clearly explaining why a thermostat should be used with EVERY heating product. It usually sounds like they are just trying to cover their @$$ in case of any accidents and reduce their responsibility.

A thermostat should be used with the higher wattage heating tape to control the temperatures and maintain safety, I agree, and also if the larger UTH's are used in combination on a large tank, but for the smaller wattage products and single UTH's the maximum heat output is not high enough to burn anything. A basking light puts out more heat than these products. It would be like adding a thermostat to all electrical products in case they overheat (and yes I know, some electrical products have built in thermostats). A short will generally just cause the product to not work anymore, like a light bulb burning out, so a thermostat has no protection against that. I think overall, with the new products on the market, the risk of a fire or heat rising to the level where it could cause any damage is about the same as leaving a radio or television on and having it burst into flames.

In the twenty plus years that I've been using various heating products I've never had a problem, encountered a problem or heard of a problem other than hot spots on heating rocks burning lizards and snakes. And we all know they are not to be trusted. If you have any proof that the low wattage products are unsafe if not used with a thermostat then please share the information with me. As a Research Scientist I am always open to new information and ideas and will gladly review the information.
 
So in other words you would put a peice of carpet between a fire and an animal to protect the animal??? Yes I sell thermostats and know how to use a heating element safely.. Not using a heating element and trying to "buffer" the heat is about as dangerous as playing with a loaded gun.. Animals dig, ambient room temps rise and fall there are many reasons to use a thermostat. This is what your saying not to have a thermostat for your home and to leave the heater running all the time but put blankets over the vents to lower "damper" the temps in the house. A lower wattage element can reach the same temps as a higher wattage element. Every book published or any caresheet written will tell you to use a thermostat, they dont say put layers of carpet over the element to love the surface temps... Just my thoughts...
-Matt
 
So 'j', tell me exactly what you think a thermostat does? How does it control the temp in the viv? How does it control the temp output of the UTH? What is the temp of a UTH on the surface of the glass without a thermostat? What is the maximum temp a 10 or 20 gallon UTH will reach at the surface of the glass when it is plugged in with and without a thermostat? What are the maximum temps reached by the various wattages of the flexwatt at the surface of the glass or on the back of the rack? Are the temps constant within one or two degrees? Do the temps fluctuate in the flexwatt or in a UTH? By how much? If the temps fluctuate in the flexwatt or UTH, what would cause that and how often will it happen? What are the advantages of using a thermostat?

You're coming back and telling me I'm at risk of fire or burning my animals by not using the thermostat, so explain to me in detail why I should be using one! Don't tell me what wil happen, tell me WHY it will happen. What exactly does the thermostat do in relation to the control of the temps in the vivarium and how does this relate to safety? I didn't realize that you sell the products, but if you do you should be knowledgeable enough to explain in detail why it is better to use a thermostat.

Be technical and give details and examples. Sell me on the idea of using the thermostat without giving me hearsay and innuendos. Give me a good technical and expert opinon on why I should use a thermostat with a UTH and you may be able to get me to use one. And believe me when I say I'm always looking to be the best keeper I can be and even after 40 plus years I'm always learning new things and improving my techniques, so I'm open to being convinced it is essential to use a thermostat AT ALL TIMES.

I know I can be a bit of a hard a$$ sometimes, but I need more than just saying the sky is blue because it just is, I need a scientific or technical explanation with facts and details to support any decision I make. That way, when I pass the information on to someone else I can explain why they should or should not use a thermostat and feel comfortable in knowing that I am passing on the best and most correct information I can. You sell the products, you are the expert here, so teach me please. :shrugs:
 
Hey Bandit. Here are a couple of posts that I have made that tell you how different types of thermostats work. As for a short causing something to not work. You are greatly mistaken. An open in the Current path will cause something to not work. A short in the current path (will usually happen between the positive and negative side of the voltage applied) will cause the item to heat uncontrollably, and thus burn and even kill the things that come into contact with the shorted heat producing item.

When you set up the Thermostat correctly, it will control the amount of current that is flowing to the heatmat, thus keeping the heatmat at a constant temperature.

however, you will find that there are different types of thermostats out there. You have the kind that turn something on and off, and you have the regulator type that just regulate the current.

For all of you that aren't electrically savvy, current is the flow of electrons from a negative terminal to a positive terminal. Voltage, when applied to a resistance source, is what creates the current. When you change the resistance that the voltage is going through, you will increase or decrease the amount of current going to the powered object in question. example: The type of thermostat that regulates current is made up of a rehostat (variable resistor (dimmer switch)) that is controlled by a microcomputer. The Microcomputer then has a measuring protocal that will take the temp of a certain area (where the probe is) and compare it against the user settings (constant). If the measured < constant then the thermostat lowers the amount of resistance, thus increasing the amount of current. If measured > constant, the thermostat increases the amount of resistance to lower the current. If measurement = constant then everything is gravy and the thermostat doesn't make any changes.

The above statement is proved by using Ohm's Law (V=IR --> where V=Voltage, I=Current, and R=Resistance). When you are looking for the amount of current, you change the equation to be I=V/R. Thus, I and R are inversely proportional. So, if you increase R, you decrease I, and if you Decrease R, you increase I.

Hope this helps all to know more how a thermostat works. If this is a little too technical, let me know and I will convert it to none techie talk.
Click to expand...

And, to get a little more info on the other type of thermostat. All this type does is act like a wall switch. When the measured temperature is eaqual to or greater than the user given temp, the switch will throw and open the circuit...thus stopping all current flow to the given object (just like when you turn off the wall switch, the lights go off). When the Temp is lower than the user given data, the switch turns on and allows full current to flow to the object. This type of thermostat has a lot of problems with keeping constant temps because when you turn off the heatmat, it will take a little while for it to heat up significantly when it is turned back on.

IMHO, it is much safer to use the Regulated Type of thermostat to control temperatures in a vivarium invironment as this will give you the greatest control over the temps.
Click to expand...

Both of these posts can be found in this thread on page 3.

And just to let you know, I am an Electronics Engineering Major, so I know what I am talking about.
 
So 'j', tell me exactly what you think a thermostat does?

First off call me sir when addressing me! Now I am going to humor you and give you my knowledge to try and educate you, not for you but for the animals you have suffering. A thermostat depending on the type regulates the temps os a healint or cooling element. Now thir are 2 types of thermostat used in the reptile hobby.

1) Proportional(pulse) This device will limit the amount of current going to the element to maintain the desired temps the setpoint is set at.

2) On/Off(analog) This device will turn the power on and off when the setpoint is reached or when the temp drops to where the diff is set at to turn the power back on to bring it back up to the setpoint.. This is called "cycling"


How does it control the temp in the viv?
See above

How does it control the temp output of the UTH?
See above

What is the temp of a UTH on the surface of the glass without a thermostat?
Depends on many factors, examples:
1) ambient air temps
2) wattage of element
3) thickness of thermal mass the element is trying to penitrate

What is the maximum temp a 10 or 20 gallon UTH will reach at the surface of the glass when it is plugged in with and without a thermostat?

See above


What are the maximum temps reached by the various wattages of the flexwatt at the surface of the glass or on the back of the rack?

See above

Are the temps constant within one or two degrees?
No they will vary with the ambient temps in the room..

Do the temps fluctuate in the flexwatt or in a UTH? By how much?
See above


If the temps fluctuate in the flexwatt or UTH, what would cause that and how often will it happen?
1)Ambient air temps
2)thermal mass inside the cage

What are the advantages of using a thermostat?
1) Consistent temps no matter of varying ambient air.
a) No cooked animals
b) No Ri problems from temps falling to low
c) Will not allow the temps of the element being used to become dangerously hot.
2) Reduction of power usage
3) ability to properly lower temps for a breeding cycle
4) more more more

You're coming back and telling me I'm at risk of fire or burning my animals by not using the thermostat, so explain to me in detail why I should be using one!
All heating elements have the capibility to reach temps that will ignite the element itself. Using a thermostat will stop this from happening..


Don't tell me what wil happen, tell me WHY it will happen.
When a combustable material is heated to its flashpoint and oxygen is present this makes fire..

What exactly does the thermostat do in relation to the control of the temps in the vivarium and how does this relate to safety?
Same question just worded different, see above answers.

I didn't realize that you sell the products, but if you do you should be knowledgeable enough to explain in detail why it is better to use a thermostat.
I deal in heating element and control about 12 hours a day, 6 days a week. This is my job so I am pretty knowledgable about the products I sell..


Be technical and give details and examples.
Given see above


Sell me on the idea of using the thermostat without giving me hearsay and innuendos.
Nothing is hearsay.. I have tested 99% of the thermostats on the US market for the herp hobby.. Some are better than others..

Give me a good technical and expert opinon on why I should use a thermostat with a UTH and you may be able to get me to use one.
Well if you care about your animals and your home, use one... Thats pretty much straight forawrd..

And believe me when I say I'm always looking to be the best keeper I can be and even after 40 plus years I'm always learning new things and improving my techniques, so I'm open to being convinced it is essential to use a thermostat AT ALL TIMES.

There should be no convienceing anyone to use a control on a heating element that can reach temps of 120+ degrees in 10 minutes or less. It is common sense.

I know I can be a bit of a hard a$$ sometimes
Noted!

When I pass the information on to someone else I can explain why they should or should not use a thermostat and feel comfortable in knowing that I am passing on the best and most correct information I can.

You should not try and pass any information on to anyone that you are not 100% sure about. This is not something to mess with.

You sell the products, you are the expert here, so teach me please.

Not an expert by any means, but do love this aspect of the hobby thats why I opend the 2 businesses I run. I am more than willing to sit down and expain anything you might be not understanding. Thats my job. I dont try and puch products or anything like that I just love reptiles and know how to heat them in an ideal situation. Dont want to see anything bad caome of anyones animals or household.. Feel free to give me a call anytime to discuss this 304-836-5147.. Thanks,
-Matt
 
Back to the thread......

Matt,

I'm sure that you and I have excess tape laying around so making a heat set-up for 1 tank would of course be cheaper than buying an UTH.

HOWEVER........

Someone that doesn't have that luxury would have to order enough tape to make a miminum order and then pony up for the shipping charges. Ergo, it would not be less expensive. ;)
 
Actually it is...Say you do it all with "factory parts" Now these are my prices..
1- 11x12 UTH of flexwatt 19.99 Shipped(this i splug and play)
1- Cobra 11x11 38.94 shipped
1- Exo-Terra 11x10 24.94 shipped

So yes it is less expensive for a flexwatt UTH.....
 
If that is what you're paying for those items, you sir, are being robbed blind. BTW, you failed to include the cost of a heat controller for the flexwatt. I stand by what I originally posted. :)
 
Any heating element will have to have a controller.. Not just flexwatt.. No thats not what I pay for them I buy wholesale of course...And how can you stand behind what u said the numbers are right in front of you...... Sorry!
 
Ok, now I'm daze and confused

I have a 10 gal, uth. That I want to control temp in viv. Should I use a;

Homemade dimmerswitch (Rheostate ) as posted on this site or Store bought or
thermostat pulse or analog
What is a safe and efficient type ????
 
justcage said:
Any heating element will have to have a controller.. Not just flexwatt.. !
Click to expand...

Good idea yes, but certainly not required for all UTHs.......Sorry! :)

justcage said:
No thats not what I pay for them I buy wholesale of course...And how can you stand behind what u said the numbers are right in front of you
Click to expand...

Because the "numbers" are your numbers. I can go and buy those same items at Petco for less. Beside, you hardly need an 11" UTH for a 20 gallon tank; slight overkill. ;)
 
LOL alright man.. You just do it your way and Ill do it mine... :) Oh and here is a link for the 20g cobra heat pad from petco(btw the prices are higher in the store) http://www.petco.com/product_info.asp?webt=0&tab=5&sku=4385482012
I dont do colubrids so the heating requirements will be different..I keep juvi carpets in 20g's until they are big enough for AP cages and they need the floor space... But my room is thermostat controlled..

Hey Lenny, You can use all of the above.. If using a dimmer(rheostat) your temps in the room your keeping the tank wil have to be stable or you will have to adjust the dimmer to the rise and fall of the room.. A thermostat(analog is fine), will keep the pad the same temp all the time.. It is just safer for the animal using a thermostat and easier on you since yo udont have to worry about the temps going haywire...
 
Matt -- Now that's what I'm talking about!!!! I've been looking for someone to talk intelligently with me about UTH's and thermostats for a while. I've been trying for a couple of years to discuss this with someone that would understand what I'm asking and trying to say and nobody to date has been able to give me details and the understanding you seem to exhibit. GREAT!!!

Now I haven't had time to read all of your posts back to me on this thread, but I do get a sense that you are being defensive and are on the attack (i.e., call you "sir" -- lol). Don't be!!!! I'm just asking questions and looking for answers.

After I get home today I'll sit back review the posts on the thread and get back to you. I've got a lot of questions and want to pick your brain. And, let me know if you want to continue on this thread or start a new one.

Get back later.

Gary:laugh:
 
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