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heat tape???
- Thread starter cornsnakekid92
- Start date
Ok Matt, yeah, I figured you were just being a little tongue in cheek. It's really hard on a string of written words to get a sense of the emotion or feelings behind a post so I always read them with this in mind -- don't want misunderstandings or hurt feelings.
I've read over everything and realized that the first post was from Pcar (Paul), and thanks Paul -- I have a pretty good understanding of what you said and really appreciate the input. I do use thermostats but haven't used them on the smaller UTH's, that's what I'm hoping to decide about here.
I started to wonder about using thermostats with the UTH's several years ago when they started to become more common in the pet shops. Prior to that I had relied solely on Basking lights for my single vivarium set ups and the old plumbers heat tape/heat rope for the couple of racks I had set up. For the racks, during the winter I controlled the temperatures using a jungle of wires and sensors connected to a mountain of ancient and huge thermostats. During the summer I kept the temperatures in the room in the mid 80's (it was easier and cheaper). And, then I noticed the technology changing and the pet industry starting to catch up with the needs of the growing number of herpers out there.
With the first couple of UTH's I came across they did not mention anything about using a thermostat with them, but they did say not to use them without substrate on the bottom of the vivarium (presumably to act as insulation between the animal and the glass). So, I wondered what temps the UTH would produce. I got two sizes (they are long since gone, stripped off of the tanks), one was about 8 x 9 inches and the other about 11 x 12 inches. They both seemed to produce a constant temperature of around 112 degrees at the surface of the glass inside the vivarium. Now, that in itself was not hot enough to burn a snake or lizard, but it was too high for some of my snakes that love to burrow. They would end up just avoiding that area most of the time. With an inch of substrate (Aspen, beech or poplar chips) the temperatures at the surface of the substrate were reduced and fluctuated between about 88 and 93 degrees depending on the environmental fluctuations (air movement, ambient air temp, etc.).
This was a good temperature, but what about the burrowers? Even though I was already using thermostats elsewhere I never even considered the idea of using one attached to the UTH, especially since the manufacturer said nothing about it. So, I figured I'd try a thick, flat piece of rock placed directly over the position of the UTH. This prevented the snakes from burrowing under it and coming in contact with the higher temps at the glass. The heat radiated through the rock and gave me a constant temperature of 93 degrees for both of the heaters. A perfect basking temperature. I found that I could control the basking temperature by putting a thicker piece of rock on the spot (the temps would drop to 90 or less depending on the thickness). Another benefit was that the temperature did not fluctuate with air currents or slight changes in the ambient temperatures and the heat was evenly distributed across the whole surface of the rock.
I used these two UTH's for a couple of years and stopped using them when one tank broke and the other UTH just stopped working. Now, since then I've purchased a couple more of various sizes and from different manufacturers. I have two Medium Heat Wave Desert heaters (10x11") and one small Heat Wave Desert from Exo-Terra, in addition to one medium Heat Wave Rainforest UTH. The instructions and the box for these products do not say to use a thermostat. Like the older models of UTH they just say to make sure they are "not used without substrate in order to prevent reptiles from being burned." I tested the temperatures of these products as well and for the Desert heaters got 120 degrees at the glass for both of them and a temp of 95 at the surface of the slate (these are in my Beardies vivs). The smaller Desert gave 113 at the glass and 93 on the rock. I can match these temps on the surface of sand if I put a layer of herp carpet on the glass surface and then put the substrate (sand) on top of this. The Heat Wave Rainforest gives me a temperature of 110 at the glass surface and 90 degrees on the surface of the rock.
The other two UTH's are the small (6x8") Zoo Med Repti Therm UTH (8 watts for 10 to 20 gallons). The instruction booklet that comes with these heaters does suggest you use a piece of reptile carpet on top of the glass to prevent burrowing reptiles from digging through the substrate and contacting the glass and this product does mention thermostats, unlike the former one. They say "If your house temperatures can rise above 80 F (26.6 C) we recommend you use a reptile thermostat...to shut off/control the heat output..." They do not say to use one all the time, only when the temperatures of the room exceed 80 degrees. So, do they believe their products are safe at lower room temps and a thermostat is not needed? That's what it sounds like to me, BUT, being the worry wart I tend to be sometimes and really being in love with all of my animals I started to question whether or not a thermostat should be used just in case.
Which brings me to this point.
Matt, which products do you sell? Do you know how extensively they test these products and how reliable they really are? Have you got any idea of the life expectency of a UTH? I've tried to get an answer from Zoo Med but they seem to be elusive in answering me (they have never given me a direct answer and refer me to others) and Exo Terra just doesn't return my inquiries.
I know of a few dozen people who are using at least one UTH and only two of them have a thermostat hooked up. Now I've spent some time trying to find out if anybody ever actually had one short and burn or cause an injury to an animal, but have found not one instance of this occuring, unlike with the heat rocks where I have found several cases of burns from hot spots. Have you heard of any or know of anybody who has? I'd really like to know because if it came down to a choice of spending a hundred bucks to get a couple of thermostats or possibly hurting one of my babies I'd spend the money in an instant. It's like the heat rocks, when I first heard of them forming hot spots and burning lizards and then I saw a picture of the damage, I pulled mine out of the vivariums immediately (I had several). Despite the possibility, the companies still make, market and sell them to people uninitiated in the possible problems.
Yes, I am a bit of a worry wart so I inspect all my animals once a month and inspect all the basking lights, flexwatt, UTH's and all the electrical connections on a regular basis (about once a month as well), but I am not a paranoid. To me, at the moment (and this could easily change as we work through this) getting a thermostat for all my undertank heaters is kinda like wearing a motorcycle helmet everytime I get into a car. I know there is the possibility of getting into an accident everytime I get into it, but what are the chances I will get into an accident and get injured or that the helmet will save my life? That's where I am now. Do I really have something to worry about? What are the chances of something actually happening to one of the UTH's? Is there good, reliable information and data out there to show that we all should be using a thermostat?
Anyways, I've got some prep to do for a class I'm teaching tomorrow so I have to go. This at least starts things off a little more constructively and I hope we'll be able to continue.
Thanks Matt! Talk again soon.
Gary.
I've read over everything and realized that the first post was from Pcar (Paul), and thanks Paul -- I have a pretty good understanding of what you said and really appreciate the input. I do use thermostats but haven't used them on the smaller UTH's, that's what I'm hoping to decide about here.
I started to wonder about using thermostats with the UTH's several years ago when they started to become more common in the pet shops. Prior to that I had relied solely on Basking lights for my single vivarium set ups and the old plumbers heat tape/heat rope for the couple of racks I had set up. For the racks, during the winter I controlled the temperatures using a jungle of wires and sensors connected to a mountain of ancient and huge thermostats. During the summer I kept the temperatures in the room in the mid 80's (it was easier and cheaper). And, then I noticed the technology changing and the pet industry starting to catch up with the needs of the growing number of herpers out there.
With the first couple of UTH's I came across they did not mention anything about using a thermostat with them, but they did say not to use them without substrate on the bottom of the vivarium (presumably to act as insulation between the animal and the glass). So, I wondered what temps the UTH would produce. I got two sizes (they are long since gone, stripped off of the tanks), one was about 8 x 9 inches and the other about 11 x 12 inches. They both seemed to produce a constant temperature of around 112 degrees at the surface of the glass inside the vivarium. Now, that in itself was not hot enough to burn a snake or lizard, but it was too high for some of my snakes that love to burrow. They would end up just avoiding that area most of the time. With an inch of substrate (Aspen, beech or poplar chips) the temperatures at the surface of the substrate were reduced and fluctuated between about 88 and 93 degrees depending on the environmental fluctuations (air movement, ambient air temp, etc.).
This was a good temperature, but what about the burrowers? Even though I was already using thermostats elsewhere I never even considered the idea of using one attached to the UTH, especially since the manufacturer said nothing about it. So, I figured I'd try a thick, flat piece of rock placed directly over the position of the UTH. This prevented the snakes from burrowing under it and coming in contact with the higher temps at the glass. The heat radiated through the rock and gave me a constant temperature of 93 degrees for both of the heaters. A perfect basking temperature. I found that I could control the basking temperature by putting a thicker piece of rock on the spot (the temps would drop to 90 or less depending on the thickness). Another benefit was that the temperature did not fluctuate with air currents or slight changes in the ambient temperatures and the heat was evenly distributed across the whole surface of the rock.
I used these two UTH's for a couple of years and stopped using them when one tank broke and the other UTH just stopped working. Now, since then I've purchased a couple more of various sizes and from different manufacturers. I have two Medium Heat Wave Desert heaters (10x11") and one small Heat Wave Desert from Exo-Terra, in addition to one medium Heat Wave Rainforest UTH. The instructions and the box for these products do not say to use a thermostat. Like the older models of UTH they just say to make sure they are "not used without substrate in order to prevent reptiles from being burned." I tested the temperatures of these products as well and for the Desert heaters got 120 degrees at the glass for both of them and a temp of 95 at the surface of the slate (these are in my Beardies vivs). The smaller Desert gave 113 at the glass and 93 on the rock. I can match these temps on the surface of sand if I put a layer of herp carpet on the glass surface and then put the substrate (sand) on top of this. The Heat Wave Rainforest gives me a temperature of 110 at the glass surface and 90 degrees on the surface of the rock.
The other two UTH's are the small (6x8") Zoo Med Repti Therm UTH (8 watts for 10 to 20 gallons). The instruction booklet that comes with these heaters does suggest you use a piece of reptile carpet on top of the glass to prevent burrowing reptiles from digging through the substrate and contacting the glass and this product does mention thermostats, unlike the former one. They say "If your house temperatures can rise above 80 F (26.6 C) we recommend you use a reptile thermostat...to shut off/control the heat output..." They do not say to use one all the time, only when the temperatures of the room exceed 80 degrees. So, do they believe their products are safe at lower room temps and a thermostat is not needed? That's what it sounds like to me, BUT, being the worry wart I tend to be sometimes and really being in love with all of my animals I started to question whether or not a thermostat should be used just in case.
Which brings me to this point.
Matt, which products do you sell? Do you know how extensively they test these products and how reliable they really are? Have you got any idea of the life expectency of a UTH? I've tried to get an answer from Zoo Med but they seem to be elusive in answering me (they have never given me a direct answer and refer me to others) and Exo Terra just doesn't return my inquiries.
I know of a few dozen people who are using at least one UTH and only two of them have a thermostat hooked up. Now I've spent some time trying to find out if anybody ever actually had one short and burn or cause an injury to an animal, but have found not one instance of this occuring, unlike with the heat rocks where I have found several cases of burns from hot spots. Have you heard of any or know of anybody who has? I'd really like to know because if it came down to a choice of spending a hundred bucks to get a couple of thermostats or possibly hurting one of my babies I'd spend the money in an instant. It's like the heat rocks, when I first heard of them forming hot spots and burning lizards and then I saw a picture of the damage, I pulled mine out of the vivariums immediately (I had several). Despite the possibility, the companies still make, market and sell them to people uninitiated in the possible problems.
Yes, I am a bit of a worry wart so I inspect all my animals once a month and inspect all the basking lights, flexwatt, UTH's and all the electrical connections on a regular basis (about once a month as well), but I am not a paranoid. To me, at the moment (and this could easily change as we work through this) getting a thermostat for all my undertank heaters is kinda like wearing a motorcycle helmet everytime I get into a car. I know there is the possibility of getting into an accident everytime I get into it, but what are the chances I will get into an accident and get injured or that the helmet will save my life? That's where I am now. Do I really have something to worry about? What are the chances of something actually happening to one of the UTH's? Is there good, reliable information and data out there to show that we all should be using a thermostat?
Anyways, I've got some prep to do for a class I'm teaching tomorrow so I have to go. This at least starts things off a little more constructively and I hope we'll be able to continue.
Thanks Matt! Talk again soon.
Gary.