Heaters...side vs under tank

BOO! · Jul 16, 2006

Hello everyone...this is a great site! Lots of info for newbies like myself. I have a question, though, that I can't find an answer to, regarding heaters.
I'm just setting up a 20gal vivarium, and the instructions (yes, I'm female and read all instructions front to back!

) Anyway...it says that the preferred mounting method is on the side of the tank. I wasn't even aware you could do that. It's certainly not pretty, but is it effective? (I always thought snakes liked insulated contact with the warmth which it wouldn't get from side mount..would it?)
Also, I'm waffling on a decision I made and would like some knowledgeable opinions...I picked up a 20gal because the size will fit my stand well (and I was told that it's an acceptable size for a full grown corn snake). I also bought the heater..but it's for a 30-40 gal vivarium...it was on sale for next to nothing. The clerk in the store said that it would be okay for the 20 gal. It will fit, but now that I see it, I'm concerned that it might be too large...doesn't quite reach to the halfway point if layed underneath. Will that still allow enough of the tank for the cool side? If it will work well for the snake, I'll go with what I have now. If not, my other option is to return the 20gal, pick up a 30gal, and rearrange the furniture in the room to accomodate the larger container. Or, I could get a smaller heater. Any advice? Thanks so much.

Lennycorn · Jul 16, 2006

BOO! · Jul 16, 2006

Thank you, Lennycorn. I've got my summer reading all lined up now! I'm really leaning towards the 30gal (more is better I think, when housing animals).
"And just duck tape it on so you can move it latter or when you do a full tank cleaning."...what a great idea! what about the adhesive covering on the heater...the peel off stuff. Do you just leave that on?

cornsnakekid92 · Jul 16, 2006

Yea, you can just leave it on.

colinmcc · Jul 17, 2006

I've used side mounted heat mats for 15 years now.

With seven snakes (and numerous hatchlings) in that entire time I've had one regurge .... and that was from a female who'd just laid eggs, so she had a good excuse.

I've never had cause to visit a vet with any of my snakes in that entire time.

Also, I live in a cold climate so the heat source is more critical than if you live in Florida for example.

So, in my experience, side mounting is a perfectly acceptable way of using a mat.

If anything, I'm of the opinion that it actually prevents a couple of potential problems. (eg. snake lying on a poorly insulated mat and getting burnt, water spillage causing problems with the electrics)

BOO! · Jul 17, 2006

Hmmm. Now I'm at that stage where being a neophyte is confuddling. I can understand the value of both options, and lack the experience to formulate my own opinion! Unfortunately, when dealing with live creatures, it's always they who pay the price for their keeper's ignorance...and I don't want that to happen.
I think I'll keep the 20gal for now, and get a smaller heater. The snake is actually a birthday present for my daughter who's had a love for them for over three years now. She's quite young yet (6) so most of the care will be up to me, however, I think that by keeping the tank smaller for the moment, she'll be better able to handle more of the cleaning/maintenance. In a couple years, when she is bigger, I'll upgrade the viv to a 30 or 40 gal.
Meanwhile, I'll go get the smaller heater and I think maybe I'll side mount it with tape for the day and see what that does to the temp....and also how hot the actual uth gets to the touch. If it stays just warm, I might move it underneath...if it gets hot..I'll keep it on the side. such a good tip to just tape it on...then I have some options to work with to figure out what will suit my situation best.
BTW, I'm located in Saskatchewan, Canada...and temps can range between -40C in winter to 30-something in summer. We do have central air conditioning, but only use it when it gets nasty hot outside, so the inside temps can fluctuate quite a bit during the day. I'm thinking it might be wise to get a thermostat to help regulate the heat better.
Thank you all so much for your help. No doubt I'll have more questions, and it's nice to know there's so much information available.

~slither~ · Jul 17, 2006

I think a thermostat is essential. It cuts down how often you have to check the temps by a helluva lot. U still need to keep an eye on it though just in case.
And just a thought about your heat mat. Why not have just enough of it underneath and leave the rest either down the back or side of your stand. You'll have to be carefull about what it comes into contact with, and it would only be a temporary sollution but its just an idea.

Wintermute · Jul 17, 2006

I found that when I used my heat mat underneath the tank, the glass bottom was painfully hot to touch, and as my snake likes to burrow, decided to mount it on the side instead to prevent burns. Also, the tank was on a wooden coffee table, and when I removed the heatmat I found that the heat had caused the wood to split down the middle, ruining the table. Taped to the side of the viv, the heat mat helped with the ambient temperature, but with it on the side I was concerned that Ripley would not be able to warm itself "from the ground" as it were, so I bought a 60watt reflector bulb and positioned it above the tank on a timer. This warms the ground area perfectly, and is also useful in creating a day/night temperature gradient as well as seasonal variations. I've had this setup for about a year and a half, and so far have had no problems.

Hope this helps,
Hannah

colinmcc · Jul 17, 2006

BOO! said:
...and temps can range between -40C in winter to 30-something in summer. We do have central air conditioning, but only use it when it gets nasty hot outside, so the inside temps can fluctuate quite a bit during the day. I'm thinking it might be wise to get a thermostat to help regulate the heat better.

Definitely!

Temps here in Scotland fluctuate a lot as well, but your range is more extreme I think. (must have been nudging 30c today ... too hot for peely-wally types like me ... but can get down to -15c in winter)

I should add, by the way, I have also base mounted mats without problems as well. Personally, I just find side mounting easier. Both work, both have their pro's and con's.

Frog · Jul 17, 2006

I use UTH under the viv for all my snakes and its fine but i have a thermostat in the substrate to stop it getting to hot. Work fine for me, and i have a idea that its better for them to be having the heat from underneath because then they can warm there bellys up when there full and it helps them digest. I could be completely wrong but thats just an idea ive got in my head.

Josh.

Lennycorn · Jul 17, 2006

I stated above use a heat mat under the mat with a thermometer with a probe placed above it in the substrate. Keep temps about 80-85 degree. That way, your snake will be safe. Many, many people have been doing this for years and years safely. With a UTH the chance of water spilling is almost impossible because it's under the tank. And you don't have to duck tape a probe to the side of the glass where the uth is to keep the snake from burning is scales off. And with using a heat mat under the tank, this will help with digestion too.

Enjoy your day :wavey: :cheers:

colinmcc · Jul 18, 2006

Lennycorn said:
With a UTH the chance of water spilling is almost impossible because it's under the tank.

Thats the other thing I should probably have mentioned ....... I use wooden vivs so can't affix a mat under the viv itself, it has to be inside the viv. In which case, the possible spillage factor comes into play.

The one glass viv I use has the mat attached to the outside of the glass .... but again, on the side of the tank. Never had any problems with the residents of that viv.

I really should know to state my assumptions by now .... espeically doing the job I do ....

:sidestep:

your_only_nightmare · Jul 18, 2006

i know im abit late here, but i use it both on side and bottom, no regurges so far, mine are also wooden, so there on the inside of my viv

so all my vivs i will have it on the bottom, except for at the moment, becuase in 2 of my vivs, i have 3 snakes in each (in seperate enclosures) they have them running across the back. but with my snakes that have a viv to myself, there on the bottom, also when i build a rack, i will run heat mats up the back.

BOO! · Jul 18, 2006

Thank you so much, everyone, for your knowledgeable advice. I ended up getting a smaller UTH for now..and that was a frustrating experience in itself. The store I purchased it from (few options here as not many seem to cater to reptiles) just switched brands, and no one seemed to know anything about the new heaters they carry. One uth was for humid environment (package said for use with substrates like aspen, bark etc), the other desert (for use with sand and such). So, I took the first one home. I taped it to the bottom of the tank, and plugged it in. I checked on it from time to time (this is an empty viv), and although it started to warm initially, it stopped. I left it plugged in for the day, and nothing. So, I went back to the store to exchange it. I had the store clerk plug it in, along with another like it. Neither of them got warm. If we held them between our hands, they started to heat up, but as soon as we let go, they cooled off (what's with that??). I plugged in one for the 'desert environment' and it seemde to be warming on it's own. I took that one home, and taped it to the bottom and plugged it in. It's been heating overnight now and all is fine so far.
Geez, I hate being new at things.

your_only_nightmare · Jul 18, 2006

if i were you, i would attache it to a thermostat or mat stat, so you can control the temps of it

BOO! · Jul 18, 2006

like this, with the dimmer switch?

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19168&highlight=

~slither~ · Jul 19, 2006

Yes, thats called a rheostat. I personally prefer using a thermostat with a dial to set the temp to. It does all the work for you then, apart from the occasional checking of temps just to be sure.

~slither~ · Jul 19, 2006

I would recommend a habistat 300w, I've used several of them and I've got no complaints. If you shop around you should get one for 20-30 pounds, I paid £22 for mine just can't remember where I mail ordered the things from.

BOO! · Jul 19, 2006

I like the idea of the thermostat for the simplicity of it. Budget wise, it might have to wait until next month. I've purchased the materials to make a rheostat for the time being.
Right now, the temp on the warm side is 88.4F (a bit warm, eh?) right smack in the center of the uth (I've used the suction cup to keep the probe the level of the substrate. The cool side is 73.6F.

~slither~ · Jul 19, 2006

It is a bit warm, but seeing as your cool side is 73 it should be ok.

Heaters...side vs under tank

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