Help with Basic set up

[Cromwell]

Hello,

I'm interested in opinions and facts about the right heating lamp for my future setup!

I will begin by giving some back ground information about the environment. The tank will be placed in large open room with an average temperature of 55-70f. During the night is when the temperature will do a dip. Usually, the room never goes over 70f, unless of course its the summer. The tank for the snake will be 48'' X 12'' X 12''. Aspen substrate, maybe some slate or large rocks and of course and good hiding place.

My questions:

1. Is this an adequate set up? What would u change?

2. What heat lamp fixture should i buy? what bulb and specific wattage is required for a tank in a room such as mine?

3. As I discussed before, the room gets cool at night, would it get to cool if i turned the light off at night?

4. What is the proper light cycle i should follow? i realize that Corn snakes are nocturnal. Basically, what is the maximum duration the light should be on for?

5. The room gets massive amounts of natural light, so i grow plants in this room. Could i grow plants in pots in the tank with the snake?

**I have read the stickies, but i still want opinions on everything i have discussed. Thank you!**

 

[wstphal]

Sounds like a ~big~ enclosure. Probably bigger than a corn needs but, hey, more space is better. Everyone is going to tell you, me included, that you should use a UTH instead of lights, though. Lots of natural light will give your corn snake all the light it needs, and heating with a light is not optimal for corn snakes because they need belly heat. I don't know if you could grow plants or not -- I have read that corn snakes tend to demolish the plants by climbing on them, or over them, or into the pot! Anyway, good luck. I am sure since you have read the stickies & are still doing research that your snake will be VERY well cared for.

 

[Cromwell]

Sounds like a ~big~ enclosure. Probably bigger than a corn needs but, hey, more space is better. Everyone is going to tell you, me included, that you should use a UTH instead of lights, though. Lots of natural light will give your corn snake all the light it needs, and heating with a light is not optimal for corn snakes because they need belly heat. I don't know if you could grow plants or not -- I have read that corn snakes tend to demolish the plants by climbing on them, or over them, or into the pot! Anyway, good luck. I am sure since you have read the stickies & are still doing research that your snake will be VERY well cared for.

Thank you for the kind words. I realize that the snake requires belly heat. however, in nature the ground is heated by the sun. The heating lamp would act as the sun, it would heat the ground and especially the slate; providing the snake with the belly heat. However, none of this can be achieved if i don't know what to buy.

Could u try to answer any of these questions for me?

2. What heat lamp fixture should i buy? What bulb and specific wattage is required for a tank in a room such as mine?

3. As I discussed before, the room gets cool at night, would it get to cool if i turned the light off at night?

4. What is the proper light cycle i should follow? i realize that Corn snakes are nocturnal. Basically, what is the maximum duration the light should be on for?

Thank you.

 

[Nanci]

See, you can't depend on the light for heat if you intend to turn it off, ever. The snake needs a constant warm place with a temp of about 85F. 55 is very cool. Even 70 is cool. Using a UTH over about a third of the floor area, you _still_ might need a ceramic heat element in the winter. You will need to at least limit the airflow through the screen lid to prevent heat loss.

I wouldn't use rocks at all. Slate- maybe. In single pieces, on the ground. I don't think your snake will bask on it, though. Cornsnakes don't bask in the sun. They hide under sheets of tin that absorb the sun's heat, leaving the snake in a dark, warm place. Rocks can and will shift and crush any reptile pet unless cemented down.

 

[Cromwell]

See, you can't depend on the light for heat if you intend to turn it off, ever. The snake needs a constant warm place with a temp of about 85F. 55 is very cool. Even 70 is cool. Using a UTH over about a third of the floor area, you _still_ might need a ceramic heat element in the winter. You will need to at least limit the airflow through the screen lid to prevent heat loss.

I wouldn't use rocks at all. Slate- maybe. In single pieces, on the ground. I don't think your snake will bask on it, though. Cornsnakes don't bask in the sun. They hide under sheets of tin that absorb the sun's heat, leaving the snake in a dark, warm place. Rocks can and will shift and crush any reptile pet unless cemented down.

Excellent point!

You have me convinced! what wattage UTH is required in a set up as cool as mine?

Thank you.

 

[Nanci]

Just look at them and pick one that fits 1/4 to 1/3 of the bottom, at one end. (For some reason it's recommended that you don't put the UTH in the center- can't remember why).

 

[Nanci]

Also remember that the closer to the floor the viv is, the colder it will be. So I'd keep it up higher. If it gets _really_ cold (which I would consider 55F to be) you can use rolled up towels around the base of the viv to hold the heat in. I've used fiberglass insulation (that is wrapped in plastic, one of the places I get mice from packs them in that) to go around the back and sides of my vivs that are close to the floor. It helps a lot. Put a towel or something like that over the lid.

 

[Cromwell]

What about a Ceramic Heat Emitter (CHE)?
The reptile Rescue Lady seemed to like this heat source better than the UTH.
Does the UTH actually go in the tank (under the substrate) or under the viv?
What wattage would be used in a CHE?
Thanks!

 

[bkelm18]

I'd go with the UTH. It's got a proven track record. The UTH goes under the tank, attached to the glass. Be sure to have it on a rheostat (lamp dimmer) or a thermostat as it can burn the snake if left unregulated. Also a good idea to have a thermometer with a probe attached to the glass on the inside of the tank right above the UTH so you can see how hot it is.

 

[Nroc]

Is the tank already purchased? Are you making it? The reason I ask is:

48X12X12 seems narrow to me. The height is fine, but the floor plan could use a little widening.

48X18X12 would probably work better, or even a 36X18X12 if there are cost issues to overcome.

 

[oldsnow]

My 55 gallong measures 48x12 for the floor space and is more than enough room for Thumper at full grown length. Also, I'm going to suggest that you use the UTH,as already suggested, and use a thermostat to control it. Granted a dimmer switch would be a lot cheaper, but your room temps are fluctuating almost 15 degrees from night to day, and if you set your dimmer to control and be at 85 in the day time, it would drop to around 70 or lower at night. Rheostats control power and keep it at one limit setting. A thermostat will constantly monitor your temp in the tank and vary the power to the UTH accordingly.

JM2C

 

[Cromwell]

Where would u get a Rheostat and how would it be used in conjunction with a UTH? Do UTH have outlets that a Rheostat could be plugged into? Where could i buy a probe to measure the temperature? Would it be something very specific that i could find Online and order?

im still learning and i need certain aspects explained in detail.

Thank you.

 

[oldsnow]

The rheostat has an outlet on the end of it that the UTH would plug into. Petsmart.com has one that you can look at and get an idea. I would suggest NOT using one though. Use a THERMOSTAT. As far as a probe to measure, just buy a digital thermometer with a remote probe and place both that probe and the thermostat probe in the same place on the glass inside of the tank, right in the center of the UTH. check bigappleherps.com. Thats where I got my thermostat and I'm sure you can find everything on there. There are plenty of places you can find them online, just google it.

 

[Cromwell]

The rheostat has an outlet on the end of it that the UTH would plug into. Petsmart.com has one that you can look at and get an idea. I would suggest NOT using one though. Use a THERMOSTAT. As far as a probe to measure, just buy a digital thermometer with a remote probe and place both that probe and the thermostat probe in the same place on the glass inside of the tank, right in the center of the UTH. check bigappleherps.com. Thats where I got my thermostat and I'm sure you can find everything on there. There are plenty of places you can find them online, just google it.

Thank you so much.

 

[Nroc]

My 55 gallong measures 48x12 for the floor space and is more than enough room for Thumper at full grown length. Also, I'm going to suggest that you use the UTH,as already suggested, and use a thermostat to control it. Granted a dimmer switch would be a lot cheaper, but your room temps are fluctuating almost 15 degrees from night to day, and if you set your dimmer to control and be at 85 in the day time, it would drop to around 70 or lower at night. Rheostats control power and keep it at one limit setting. A thermostat will constantly monitor your temp in the tank and vary the power to the UTH accordingly.

JM2C

I have to agree with oldsnow. If your temps are fluctuating by 15 degrees throughout the day, a rheostat is pretty much useless. I am a big supporter of the rheostat, but I realize their limits. If your temps change by more than about 4 degrees, it's time to get a thermostat for sure.

I had to upgrade to one. I started with just a rheostat, but in Charlotte NC, the weather is rather funny. It can be 24 degrees in the morning, and 60 in the afternoon. This really screws around with internal temps in the snake's room. The house thermostat may be set to 67, but the snake's room will get the afternoon sun, and get up to 74 degrees (especially if the door gets closed) while the rest of the house is 69... As far as the heat is concerned, it's set to 67, so it won't come on at all. The greenhouse effect warms that room, and causes 89-90 degree readings on the glass above my UTH. When the house is actually 67 degrees, the temp at glass can be 82 degrees.

That is too much fluctuation for a rheostat. I can't be there to adjust it 2-3 times per day, so I went with a thermostat (but use it in conjunction with my rheostat as a failsafe). If you are somehow able to keep the fluctuations down to about 4 degrees, a rheostat is not a bad idea necessarily.

 

[Green Oasis Reptiles]

The rheostat has an outlet on the end of it that the UTH would plug into. Petsmart.com has one that you can look at and get an idea. I would suggest NOT using one though. Use a THERMOSTAT. As far as a probe to measure, just buy a digital thermometer with a remote probe and place both that probe and the thermostat probe in the same place on the glass inside of the tank, right in the center of the UTH. check bigappleherps.com. Thats where I got my thermostat and I'm sure you can find everything on there. There are plenty of places you can find them online, just google it.

I agree with every bit of advice you're getting here...save the money you'd be spending on an expensive "basking" setup (corns rarely, if ever, bask) and use it to get a nice thermostat control unit instead. We use a Herpstat here, but we are also breeders...you shouldn't need anything that big & fancy for one corn. I'm sure there are plenty of good small ones out there...there is even a perfectly passable Zoo-med one for about $18. (Although, that MAY be a rheostat... I'm not sure.)
Reptilesupply.com has a nice selection of stuff for very reasonable prices.

Also, I noticed that no one asked the question of what SIZE corn are we talking here? (If someone did, I apologize, I missed it!) If you're talking about a 48" long x 12" wide x 12" high enclosure...sounds like a 55 gal to me, which is WAY too big for a hatchling corn. Full-grown corn yes...yearling-subadult, questionable. Just thought I would mention that.

Take care & enjoy!

 

[Cromwell]

I agree with every bit of advice you're getting here...save the money you'd be spending on an expensive "basking" setup (corns rarely, if ever, bask) and use it to get a nice thermostat control unit instead. We use a Herpstat here, but we are also breeders...you shouldn't need anything that big & fancy for one corn. I'm sure there are plenty of good small ones out there...there is even a perfectly passable Zoo-med one for about $18. (Although, that MAY be a rheostat... I'm not sure.)
Reptilesupply.com has a nice selection of stuff for very reasonable prices.

Also, I noticed that no one asked the question of what SIZE corn are we talking here? (If someone did, I apologize, I missed it!) If you're talking about a 48" long x 12" wide x 12" high enclosure...sounds like a 55 gal to me, which is WAY too big for a hatchling corn. Full-grown corn yes...yearling-subadult, questionable. Just thought I would mention that.

Take care & enjoy!

No you are quite right-it hasn't been mentioned! The corn has not been purchased yet but I am looking for anything between a hatching and a yearling. I have been looking at a 40 gal and a 55 gal. I thought to start with the larger enclosure so I would not have to replace later on. I assumed it was better to give lots of floor space rather than less.
What is the 'rule of thumb' on the size of the snake and size of the tank?!

Many Thanks!

 

[Green Oasis Reptiles]

Okay, I understand about what you're saying about not wanting to have to replace the tank later on, but corns tend to be very sectretive by nature and is going to feel particularly stressed in that large of an enclosure...not to mention what you're going to hear on here about heat loss & thermo-regulation in that large of an enclosure (for so little corn).
You'll be surprised at how fast they "shoot up" in growth in their second year, so...you'll only need to have it in a smaller enclosure (I recommend a 10 gal for the first year to 18 mos) for a relatively short period of time, anyway. I just bought a 10 gal & locking lid at the local "buy-me-crap"-mart for about $20 today, so it's not like it's a huge expense wasted or anything.
Or...you could just get a sub-adult (about ready to go thru it's growth spurt) and go ahead with the larger enclosure. That might be the better option, considering a sub-adult will be more established eating, more acclimated to human interaction (you'd be surprised how "nasty" a little corn hatchling's attitude can be!), and quicker to adjust to the new living arrangements.

You could also think of it this way: Imagine growing up in a 12' x 12' room your whole life, versus growing up in a 6' x 6' room until you were 18 & then given a 12' x 12' room. Imagine how GREAT that would feel!

 

[Cromwell]

Okay, I understand about what you're saying about not wanting to have to replace the tank later on, but corns tend to be very sectretive by nature and is going to feel particularly stressed in that large of an enclosure...not to mention what you're going to hear on here about heat loss & thermo-regulation in that large of an enclosure (for so little corn).
You'll be surprised at how fast they "shoot up" in growth in their second year, so...you'll only need to have it in a smaller enclosure (I recommend a 10 gal for the first year to 18 mos) for a relatively short period of time, anyway. I just bought a 10 gal & locking lid at the local "buy-me-crap"-mart for about $20 today, so it's not like it's a huge expense wasted or anything.
Or...you could just get a sub-adult (about ready to go thru it's growth spurt) and go ahead with the larger enclosure. That might be the better option, considering a sub-adult will be more established eating, more acclimated to human interaction (you'd be surprised how "nasty" a little corn hatchling's attitude can be!), and quicker to adjust to the new living arrangements.

You could also think of it this way: Imagine growing up in a 12' x 12' room your whole life, versus growing up in a 6' x 6' room until you were 18 & then given a 12' x 12' room. Imagine how GREAT that would feel!

Very sound advice Green Oasis! I like the analogy! I am off to my local "buy-me-crap"-mart :laugh: to see what they have! And it is obvious I need to do some more reading about the behavior of these little guys as well.
Many thanks!

 

[Cromwell]

The rheostat has an outlet on the end of it that the UTH would plug into. Petsmart.com has one that you can look at and get an idea. I would suggest NOT using one though. Use a THERMOSTAT. As far as a probe to measure, just buy a digital thermometer with a remote probe and place both that probe and the thermostat probe in the same place on the glass inside of the tank, right in the center of the UTH. check bigappleherps.com. Thats where I got my thermostat and I'm sure you can find everything on there. There are plenty of places you can find them online, just google it.

Thanks oldsnow for heat advice. I am learning as fast as I can (and there certainly are many things to consider!) With your links I now know that these instruments look like-a good start!
Many thanks!