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help!!!!

crissiecross742

New member
help- Is my snake het for bloodred?

Hey all-
I've recently been reading up on my corn snake genetics, but still have some questions. I read recently that if a corn has freckles, instead of checkers on their belly, then it might be het for bloodred, or one of it's parents were bloodred. She is a female anery 'A' with a genetic stripe-sry... no pictures available. I planned on breeding her with my male anery 'A'. Please help!!!!!

I was also wondering.... I wanted to get another female to breed with my male, should I get another anery 'A', or should I consider something else like a Charcole? :eek: Any opinions would be greatly apreciated. Thanks, and remember to smile!!!!
 
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A striped anery would have a checkerless belly, so that's where the odd belly comes from on her. Some motleys, stripes, and bloodreds have peppering on the belly, so that doesn't point to bloodred in particular.

(And nobody in their right mind would sell a striped bloodred anery without saying it is one, and getting a whole lot of money for it, hehe.)

As for what to breed to the male, depends entirely on what you want to produce...
 
Thanks for the advice, I totally agree, I will keep her and see if she is infact het for bloodred that would be so totally cool! Also, I'm looking for clutches of any albinos.... I'm not picky, I'm kinda broke so maybe what would make the most money. But I love the babies!!!! I want them all. Also.... Werent you the guy from proexotics that I saw at the show up at Adam county fair grounds? Smiles.:)
Thanks again for writing back.
 
I'm not with ProExotics. But ya, I had a table at the show, with some corns. :)

My standard advice is buy the morph you like. Even if you can't produce more of that morph right away, if it's a genetic trait or combo, you can make more of them in the F2s. IMO it's better than producing a bunch of stuff that doesn't interest you. ;)
 
Yes now I remember... Sry about the confusion. You had the bull snakes and the chamelions, you gave me some great advice. I also checked out your site... it's awesome. I especially liked looking at you snakes.... Trance is gorgeous. I was also wondering what would happen if I crossed an anery with a charcole or pewter? I'm still gonna get another snake and want more opinions!!!!! .......Please w/sugar on top. Write back soon and hope to see you at the next show! Smile.:rolleyes:

I know this is silly... but check out this smiley face thing, if you watch, it's eyes twitch before they blink. Cute huh?lol.... I intertain myself.:eek:
 
Nope, no bull snakes or chameleons. I don't do lizards, just corns. :) My bud Kat and I split a table and she had beardies and an everglades ratsnake there, and the baby rats that everyone wanted to pet. The people on my left side had a whole table full of leopard geckoes.

I probably did give you good advice though. ;)

Anery and charcoal aren't the same thing, so you would get normals het for charcoal and anery. Pewter is the combination of both charcoal and bloodred, so you would also get normals, but this time het for bloodred, charcoal, and anery.

If you're starting with an Anery, the only things you're going to get in the first generation are either anerys and/or normals. (Unless your anery also proves het for something and you breed it to something of that morph.) It's the second generation that is able to pair these genes back up and bring the other traits into play. This is why those morphs that result from new combinations of traits are so hard to find and so expensive.... because it takes so long to make them.

It's also why hets are worth more, because then you don't have to wait that extra generation to put the combos together.

So if you go with a pewter, your second generation (the grandkids of your anery) can have a few pewters and anery bloodreds among them. See Walter Smith's Anery Bloodreds on the photo gallery for an idea of what those look like.

Also try running through my genetics tutorial a couple of times. The first time is never enough... it takes a while to sink in. But once you get it, it's worth the time spent. :)
 
Thank you, again I apologize for getting you cornfused with all the others. I guess i have a bad memory. Thank you for the advice. I really apreciate it. I thought that a charcole was type 'b' anery, which is why I thought if I bred them together they would have anery's het for charcole, maybe it's just further proof that kids don't know everything in the world... darn I hate it when my mom is right. Anyways Thank you. I do read a lot on genetics though, it's the part with morphs off of morphs that confuses me, like what is a candy cane, a small c where as anery's are e's and amels are a's? I get the basic amels, anerys, snows and normals but still alittle fuzzy on the other hundred morphs. Oh well when I grow up and start my own breeding business I will find out. Smile!!!:rolleyes:
 
I really really really am sorry about getting you confussed. Forgive me. Sob Sob Sob. I'm sure I'd remember if I saw you... or your snakes. heee-heee.
 
Heh, no offense taken. I get people mixed up now and again too. Just wait till you get "old." LOL

Ya, Charcoal is sometimes also referred to as Anery type B. The reason they are called type A and B because they are independent of each other, just like Amel is independent of Anery. Cornsnakes actually have tens of thousands of genes, and they have several "switches" in the process of making red pigments that can shut down the whole works.

The two "Anery types" are just two of the genes we've stumbled across that can flip some switch somewhere that allows us to see a difference in their colors. Charcoal and Anery can look similar by themselves, but don't let that (and the similar names) fool you into thinking they have some connection to each other. ;) The big differences between them are much more obvious when you compare Snow (Anery Amel) to Blizzard (Charcoal Amel)

---

Most of the "combinations" are simply the adding of two or more effects. For example, Caramel drastically reduces red and increases yellows. Add Amel to that, and you've got an amel that has a lot less red and a lot more yellow. These are the "butter" corns. Sounds like you've got that down already, eh?

---

it's the part with morphs off of morphs that confuses me, like what is a candy cane, a small c where as anery's are e's and amels are a's?

You know that Amelanism is an "on/off" trait. It's either on with "aa" (no melanin)

...or off "AA" or "Aa" (there's melanin, the black/brown pigment.)

Certain morphs like Candycane, Reverse Okeetee, and Sunglow are the results of amelanism added to "selective breeding" rather than another single on/off trait.

What I mean is this:

Forget about all the letters and punnett squares and that junk for a bit... (wow, ME saying THAT! LOL)

Take a huge pile of amel corns from all over the place. You will notice that some of them are more orange than others. Some have a lighter or yellower ground color. There's a whole lot of variation in them, right?

Say you pick out the two with the most "white-ish" background colors, and breed them together. In their offspring, you will eventually get ones with even more of a white-ish ground color. Rinse-repeat, for generations and generations, and you will eventually (hopefully) end up with amelanistic corns that have totally white ground colors. These are the ideal "candycanes," and that's one way to make them.

Amelanism is caused by one gene, as you know. But remember that corns have tens of thousands of genes. There are a lot of genes which affect a little bit of variation in color and pattern here and there. Some give or take a little orange, some make the borders a little wider or thinner, some make it more or less yellow, etc.

If you were to put all of those genes into terms of paired letters, you'd need a whole lot more alphabets to cover it all. It's also basically impossible to isolate one certain gene that might add 1% more orange to the ground color, so we really have no names or letters to assign to these hundreds of genes at this point. ;)

It's too much to keep track of... even if you DID know what was going on with all those genes, imagine trying to draw out a 100 by 100 punnett square, and then trying to figure out which of your hatchlings fit whatever outcome you were supposed to "expect." hehehe

So instead you just go by overall looks: "This one has less orange, I'll use it in the next generation."

What you're doing through the "selective breeding" process is actually selecting for these larger combinations of genes all at one time with each keeper you select.

You're not selecting a particular square in the punnett like you do with snows... you're selecting the one that is closest to that corner over there where you've got all the "no orange" genes piled up together.

The closer they are to the look you want, the more genes "in your favor" that you've probably gathered into one animal... and of course, that individual is going to pass down more of those "favorable" genes to its offspring than some ordinary run-of-the-mill specimen.

That's what is behind the variations of Amels that we all know as Candycanes, Sunglows, and Reverse Okeetees. They're all amels, but with that "extra something" thrown in.

The same type of selective breeding is done (either by breeders or by natural conditions in the wild) to create the Miami and Okeetee types of variations that are different from "normal" normals. :)

And since those "extra" looks are created by so many genes, when you mix the results of one selective breeding with another (say Sunglow X Candycane) you will get a whole mess of stuff that is everything in between each of the parents. (The hatchlings would tend to look like "regular" amels.)

Does that make sense? (I'm known to ramble, hehe, so if you have more questions, ask away. :))
 
Really? You want even more of my rediculous questions? Okay.... well first I would like to thank you for telling me all this... it makes a lot more sense now, I knew they started with amels, I just didn't understand it totally, I thought it was more along the lines of breeding this with that then breeding the babys with the parents and with themselve... and well I just don't have enough cages for that:)

So anyways heres another question..... I might have read this wrong but did you say that if I I were to breed like a anery morph and an anery morph (well... you didn't say that you said two amel morphs.... the sunglow and candy cane.) That I would get a bunch of stuff, not only normals het for everything anery? Did that make sense?

For example I know a ghost is an anery morph, if I bred him with my anery 'A' would I get more anery morphs, or would I get normals het for anery and ghost. I think I might be wrong though, so don't hesitate to yell at me if it seems I missed the whole picture.... I understand, in a way but there it makes sense to me.

Anyways-Thanks again for all your help. You explained it better than most books I've read, well thhe confusing part anyways. Smile.
:rolleyes:
 
Okay.... well first I would like to thank you for telling me all this...
No problem. That's why this forum is here. :)

For example I know a ghost is an anery morph, if I bred him with my anery 'A' would I get more anery morphs, or would I get normals het for anery and ghost.
Think of it this way (because it's easy to think of color morph traits as "related" in a way that they truly aren't...)

Take two recessive traits, one is Anery, the other is a trait which makes the snake grow legs. :D

If you had a "two-legged anery" and you bred it to an anery, all the offspring would get the anery trait from both parents, so they would all come out anerys. :) The "leg" trait is totally independent... it's just another of the thousands of genes in the mix, and doesn't affect how anery is inherited or expressed.

Ghost is just a "hypomelanistic anery." Like the "legs" gene, hypo is a different gene and so those two things are independent of each other. So Anery X Ghost gives you Anerys which are het for Hypo (because the ghost also passed one copy that gene down to them.)

Amel X Snow = Amels, het for Anery.

Same goes for Caramel X Butter, and so on. :) Makes sense?
 
Okay- I understand I guess I just wanted an anery morph badly. Sniff. Anyways..... I'll stick to breeding him to anery 'A's and normals het for anery 'A'. K? Oh... and one more question it's the last I promise. (I feel bad.... I'll never be able to repay you for all you great advice.):( Would I get like butters if I bred an anery 'a' het for anery 'a's and het for butters to my anery 'a'? Did that make sense? I probably didn't explain it correctly. But het for anything else, not specifically butter.? You don't have to answer, I know I'm using up valuable time of yours. Smile.
 
crissiecross742 said:
Okay- I understand I guess I just wanted an anery morph badly. Sniff. Anyways..... I'll stick to breeding him to anery 'A's and normals het for anery 'A'. K? Oh... and one more question it's the last I promise. (I feel bad.... I'll never be able to repay you for all you great advice.):( Would I get like butters if I bred an anery 'a' het for anery 'a's and het for butters to my anery 'a'? Did that make sense? I probably didn't explain it correctly. But het for anything else, not specifically butter.? You don't have to answer, I know I'm using up valuable time of yours. Smile.
No need to be sorry or feel guilty. The whole purpose of this forum is so people can ask/answer these kinds of questions. We're all here to help each other out. Like a lot of others here who come to answer questions and help out, I'm only repaying the kindness that has been (and continues to be) extended to me by others with more experience than myself, which adds up to a whole lot of people. :) (The "community" in this hobby is one of the things that makes it so great.)

Anyway, you can get anerys by breeding your anery to anything that is either het or homozygous for anery A. In other words, you just need to be able to "overlap" that anery gene within the parents in order for it to show up in the kids. Snows, ghosts, Anery Bloodreds, etc would all "overlap" the anery gene and give you anerythristic offspring.

Also an amel, or caramel, or hypo, or anything else that is also het for anery A will give you some anerys in your offspring.

The difference between breeding to "aneryA or normal het aneryA" versus "anything else that is anery or het anery" is that those "other" traits will also be able to pop up in the (F2) second generation, if you chose to breed the first-generation (F1) offspring to each other.
 
One thing... you rule! Thanx for everything. I'll look for any thing het for anery:) And I look forward to having babies next year. Smiles. Thank u, Thank u, Thank u, Thank u, Thank u, Thank u, Thank u, Thank u, Thank u, Thank u, Thank u, Thank u, Thank u, Thank u, Thank u, Thank u, Thank u, Thank u, Thank u, Thank u, Thank u, Thank u, Thank u, Thank u, Thank u, Thank u, Thank u, Thank u, Thank u, Thank u!
 
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