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Huge disparity in Breeders

K

Kulprit

New member
Hello all, this thread may ruffle some feathers, but I feel it may serve as a wake up call to some people.

I may be new to herping, but I take my role as a consumer as seriously as I hope breeders take their roles as producers. I feel that customer service is a very simple concept that has been woefully forgotten in modern marketplaces.

Unfortunately, in my short history of interacting with reptile breeders, I have found a huge disparity between breeders when it comes to the subject of customer service. Roughly split 50/50, I have been in contact with wonderful breeders and terrible breeders (in the context of customer service). I have never, as a consumer, seen a specific marketplace with such a blatant overall disregard for customer satisfaction, as reptile breeders.

With that being said, the few breeders that showed a true interest in me and my satisfaction have done so fantastically. But at least an equal number of breeders have been so obtuse that it drove me to create this thread.

I hope that if you are a breeder, and read this thread, you take a close look at your business model. To those breeders that have paid me respect, well done. To those breeders otherwise, I hope you reconsider your actions (or lack thereof).
 
Welcome to the world of being a consumer...

This is not exclusive to reptiles.

The problem here is most people are hobbyist, not actual companies depending on your dollar to keep going. Some people take it super serious, some do not.

It's simple, if you as the buyer don't like an aspect of the sale, walk away, find another seller. Poof...done. Same on the seller's end, if a buyer is being obtuse, end the sale, don't waste time with tire kickers.

There is no industry business model here. If someone is a jerk and still sells snakes, super. If someone is over the top nice and still sells snakes, super.

Yeah it's nice to deal to work with someone who is over the top with customer service, but that's not always going to happen. We are each free to choose where our money goes. People will change if they see people going other places to buy snakes, or they may sell enough and never change.
 
If you could give us some examples of what specifically you found good and bad, it might help people improve.

But I do echo the above comments. Business models don't exist for most of us, as we're hobby breeders. We breed because we love snakes, not because we're trying to make money or please customers. The major professional breeders are few and far between as this is a very precarious business with usually low profit margins, reliant on many variables beyond direct control. Mostly their reputation rests on a combination of customer service PLUS excellent animal husbandry and the production of healthy hatchlings. You'll find that breeders live and die by their reputation amongst the reptile community. Impeccable care for their animals is more likely to get repeat custom and word-of-mouth recommendation, than a glossy care sheet.

In my 21 years of Corn ownership, I've met many breeders and dealers. Many of them were more concerned about their animals than they were about other people, including customers. To the point where I've occasionally watched potential customers turned away when they tried to buy a reptile for which they were clearly not prepared. I'll swap that for customer service and a business model any day.
 
I'm not new to being a consumer, so no welcome is needed. And while you are correct that every marketplace has its "bad apple" producers, you missed the point of my post. I said that I have never seen a marketplace with such a blatant Overall disregard for customer service. Meaning, there are a lot of "bad apples" in this market place. And again, I'm not new to being a consumer, I know I can spend my money where I choose. This thread is simply my small, yet important, PSA to those many obtuse breeders.
 
Again, which aspects of customer service are you referring to? Details would be more helpful than a generalised lament.
 
bitsy said:
If you could give us some examples of what specifically you found good and bad, it might help people improve.

But I do echo the above comments. Business models don't exist for most of us, as we're hobby breeders. We breed because we love snakes, not because we're trying to make money or please customers. The major professional breeders are few and far between as this is a very precarious business with usually low profit margins, reliant on many variables beyond direct control. Mostly their reputation rests on a combination of customer service PLUS excellent animal husbandry and the production of healthy hatchlings. You'll find that breeders live and die by their reputation amongst the reptile community. Impeccable care for their animals is more likely to get repeat custom and word-of-mouth recommendation, than a glossy care sheet.

In my 21 years of Corn ownership, I've met many breeders and dealers. Many of them were more concerned about their animals than they were about other people, including customers. To the point where I've occasionally watched potential customers turned away when they tried to buy a reptile for which they were clearly not prepared. I'll swap that for customer service and a business model any day.
Click to expand...

Very true Bitsy.

I have personally turned away customers that were ready to hand me money, because I was concerned for the long term care of the reptile. It's not worth the money to hand over a snake to someone I know would surely kill it.

The point could be made "why don't just teach them how to care for it?" I have care sheets and will happily go over a little basic info, but in my eyes, the person buying the snake needs to have at least done a small amount of research before attempting to buy.

Not saying that's the case here, just offering a little insight on why some breeders can come off as jerks. Maybe they have the animal's best interest at heart and it comes off as rude.
 
Good questions. Communication easily tops my list of complaints. From no responses to elitist attitudes displayed in curt responses. Also, laziness in web page organization and timely updates seems the norm.

You all have brought to my attention that professionalism may be rare in this marketplace, as many are simply fly by night hobbyists. Which makes my complaints more easily understood and overcome.
 
Back on the 6th July, you told us that you were new to herping:

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123317

I find it hard to believe that with around three weeks of experience in the reptile world, you have really encountered enough breeders - good, bad or indifferent - to give you the breadth of knowledge to level such generalised and unspecified accusations at an entire industry.

Did you run into problems when trying to track down the specific snake that you were looking for in the thread linked above? You seemed to have very particular requirements.

What exactly has you so annoyed?
 
Another good point everybody. I understand that the product is a living animal. I can very easily agree with the refusal of sale to an unqualified buyer. That is not the case here as I have proved to myself that I can provide proper husbandry to a colubrid, evidenced by a thriving brooks kingsnake in my care. I have no problem admitting my chronological new-ness, but have researched and practiced husbandry far beyond any "rookie".
 
Good point Bitsy.

Jesus wept.

No. It's not fly by night. Some people work full time jobs, and reptiles are a secondary fun hobby. Not less important, just have to take a back seat to the 9-5 job.

So Steve does not know anything about web design, but tries his best and gets something up there, and you are doing to dink him for it?

So Carl works a full time job and may take an extra day reply to an email, you are going to dink him for it?

This is a hobbyist group, that means that not everyone can afford flashy amazing websites or on the spot email turn around. To me, this sounds more like you being obtuse, and not the breeders.
 
My first post on this site have nothing to do with my full experience. Id be happy to explain my full experience if you so desire. I have spoken to (rough estimate) two dozen breeders.
 
Communication easily tops my list of complaints. From no responses to elitist attitudes displayed in curt responses.
Click to expand...
You realise that this is the height of the hatching season? Many people are up to their ears in housing, feeding and cleaning hatchlings. Time for communication - especially answering questions about particular snakes - is in very short supply.

Also, laziness in web page organization and timely updates seems the norm.
Click to expand...
I can see that must be aggravating, if you spot a snake that really takes your fancy on a "For Sale" list, only to find that it's already been sold. But again, hatching season is a time when the welfare of the snakes needs to come first.

Web site design is a separate issue. In order to do business, many people feel obliged to have a website. But if there's no money for a web designer, then they just have to get something together themselves as best they can. Sadly, some of us have little or no talent in that direction!
 
No, I'm ok with reply delays. I do , however, have a problem with NO replies and rude responses. And web design is elementary school simple nowadays.
 
Id be happy to explain my full experience if you so desire
Click to expand...

I think your full experience (minus busines/individual names to keep to message board protocols) would definitely help us understand your frustration, and to address any issues that we can recognise in ourselves.
 
I have been active on this forum for almost a year and I don't think I could even begin to make the assumptions that you are making.

I do check the BOI before dealing with people and I get to know them personally before I even decide to purchase a snake from them. This is just me.

I have met some outstanding breeders and hobbyist on this site. I could careless what their personal website is set up like or if it is updated. If I wanted questions answered I would email them and wait patiently for a reply.

I think BB is right, I think it is more of an issue with you then with others. Get a grip on reality. Don't like a breeders customer service move on and find someone you like.
 
So how exactly did your experience differ in terms of your satisfaction? As a small scale hobbyist and breeder, I wouldn't ever say I'm a professional. I sell a small amount of snakes privately and the rest are wholesaled because I haven't the time in between my shift work to deal with 100 plus customers to sell each baby seperatley. the snakes I sell each have full details (as far as known) of their genetics, hatch date and feeding record.
In selling to private individuals, I've had multiple missed appointments, 'tire kickers' who want to see my whole collection and sit down for a nice chat and a cuppa before buying nothing, repeated 'phone calls asking questions I've already answered in my adverts, such that I tend now to only sell privately to other hobbyists I 'know' through websites rather than complete strangers.
 
I'd like to think my customer service is fairly spot on. At least I haven't had any major grumbles. I'm just a small timer trying to make a couple of extra bucks and couldn't even think of what bigger breeders deal with on a daily basis . . . like emails from someone inquiring about a snake and then demanding a cheaper price, or being asked to hold it for them cause they need a few days to get the money and then never contacting them again, or setting up a deal for a significant number of snakes to only back out at the last second because something happened to something that I now have to pay for, or . . . I think you can get the picture.

I answer the few emails I receive here and there as soon as possible. Interestlngly enough I have 3 snake inquiries sitting in my inbox right now, two of which the people have not responded to the answers they so desperately needed on the availability of snakes. Short, curt answers may be the result of having spent considerable time giving in-depth answers to people who haven't really cared. Want a ratio? For me it's probably at minimum 10 to 1 inquiries to sale. That adds up, and again, I'm just small-timer.

I'd like to think customer service is a two way street.
D80
 
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