I don’t want an unplanned pregnancy!

[Smooth_Earth_Snake]

I have two baby Corn Snakes. They are just a few months old. One is a male the other is a female.
They are housed in a 48” long cage with a removable divider in the middle. Instead of keeping them separated in two 24” long compartments I have decided to leave them together in one long cage while they are still young. They seem to really enjoy each other company.

QUESTION:
How long can I leave them together? I don’t want an unplanned pregnancy. What is the minimum age for a male to get a female pregnant? What is the minimum age that a female can get pregnant?

 

[lefty_mussolini]

The problem that you could potentially face when they are as young as they are now is cannibalism, which will most likely result in the death of both animals.

I wouldn't be surprised if the female could successfully mate at around 24 in. which would most likely result in the death of the female.
Males can and will mate at a surprisingly small size. I had a male that was just under 100 g. successfully mate with an adult female (this was well supervised to avoid any problems.)

 

[Joolz68]

It will be suggested that you separate the snakes so that unwanted pregnancy (and other deadly situations) will be avoided, and to search for more info.

If you decide to use the removable divider to keep the snakes apart, make sure your heating device is accessible to both snakes.

 

[bill38112]

I find that I'm starting to develop a theme. It's somewhat a self serving one. I don't want to handle my snakes that much and I don't want to have to spend a lot of time caring for them. It's one of the reasons I keep snakes as pets. They don't require that much attention. How is that relevant here?

Snakes want to be left alone. They don't like company. Don't project your fuzzy I love my snookums attitude on them. They thrive with minimal outside contact...They need climate control, a clean environment, and regular feeding. They do not need companionship. Snakes in the first year of life would just as soon stayed buried in the substrate and only venture forth for eating, drinking, shedding, eliminating, and moderating body temperature. Keeping them with another snake just raises their stress level.

Now I enjoy handling my snakes, but I do it minimally, about once a week. I don't handle them more because I do not want to stress them. I also try not handle them when they're about to shed. If you house your snakes together they will stay stressed and will be stressed even more when you handle them, making the experience that much more unpleasant for you both.

I believe many of the feeding and health problems we hear about are because we stress our babies. Keeping them separate will keep them healthy.

 

[diamondlil]

Bill, if I could rep you right now I would, but instead I'll say that I agree wholeheartedly with you

 

[BeckyG]

Bill, if I could rep you right now I would, but instead I'll say that I agree wholeheartedly with you

I did it for you!

Separate the snakes as soon as possible. Read old threads on cohabitation (and there are hundreds of them on the board) and you will find more information than you ever thought possible. Here is one post, though, that I think says it all:

Cohabitation

 

[Smooth_Earth_Snake]

Cohabitation

Thanks Becky,

The reference to Cohabitation by Jimmy Johnson was great.
I appreciated his reasoning.

As you suggested, I will read more old threads on cohabitation.

I did it for you!

Separate the snakes as soon as possible. Read old threads on cohabitation (and there are hundreds of them on the board) and you will find more information than you ever thought possible. Here is one post, though, that I think says it all:

Cohabitation

 

[Smooth_Earth_Snake]

24" for the Female / just under 100 g. for the Male

Thanks for the following: "I wouldn't be surprised if the female could successfully mate at around 24 in. which would most likely result in the death of the female."

I'm lost on the quote: "I had a male that was just under 100 g. successfully mate with an adult female" About how long was your Male?

The problem that you could potentially face when they are as young as they are now is cannibalism, which will most likely result in the death of both animals.

I wouldn't be surprised if the female could successfully mate at around 24 in. which would most likely result in the death of the female.
Males can and will mate at a surprisingly small size. I had a male that was just under 100 g. successfully mate with an adult female (this was well supervised to avoid any problems.)

 

[Roy Munson]

Thanks for the following: "I wouldn't be surprised if the female could successfully mate at around 24 in. which would most likely result in the death of the female."

I'm lost on the quote: "I had a male that was just under 100 g. successfully mate with an adult female" About how long was your Male?

Lefty/Trevor's not online here at the moment, so I'll answer. For many keepers, length is more of a "fun fact", and we gauge size by weight. Length doesn't tell you that much about the size of a snake. A three foot snake may weigh 200grams or it may weigh 400g. Size at breeding isn't that important for a male from a health perspective. He's not going to be developing, carrying, and laying eggs. But for a female, breeding WEIGHT is a critical factor-- truly a life or death affair.

 

[JasonGranger]

In my opinion, you should put in the divider and let them live individually. it's better for the snakes' health and general quality of life.

 

[Smooth_Earth_Snake]

Snakes want to be left alone. They don't like company.

Thanks Bill,

I appreciate your thoughts.

I kept my snakes separated for about two months then this new cage was ready (so I though) but after a day or so the Male found a way over the 18” high divider and ended up with the Female.

After I separated them he did the same thing again. Even though I fixed that escape route I decided to leave the divider off for a while. They are almost always coiled up together.

This 48” cage has two identical water bowls, thermostats, and heaters. Both sides also have its own hide. Right now they seem to prefer hiding under the newspaper together instead of using the hides.

I know that these are not Garter Snakes. They have been known to winter together in numbers as high as 10,000. One of the few books I read in the past mentioned, that Corn Snakes have been found in nature in groups of two or more. This was outside of the matting time.

It’s hard for me to understand why both of them would almost always like the same spot at the same time, unless they don’t mind a little companionship.

I find that I'm starting to develop a theme. It's somewhat a self serving one. I don't want to handle my snakes that much and I don't want to have to spend a lot of time caring for them. It's one of the reasons I keep snakes as pets. They don't require that much attention. How is that relevant here?

Snakes want to be left alone. They don't like company. Don't project your fuzzy I love my snookums attitude on them. They thrive with minimal outside contact...They need climate control, a clean environment, and regular feeding. They do not need companionship. Snakes in the first year of life would just as soon stayed buried in the substrate and only venture forth for eating, drinking, shedding, eliminating, and moderating body temperature. Keeping them with another snake just raises their stress level.

Now I enjoy handling my snakes, but I do it minimally, about once a week. I don't handle them more because I do not want to stress them. I also try not handle them when they're about to shed. If you house your snakes together they will stay stressed and will be stressed even more when you handle them, making the experience that much more unpleasant for you both.

I believe many of the feeding and health problems we hear about are because we stress our babies. Keeping them separate will keep them healthy.

 

[Roy Munson]

It’s hard for me to understand why both of them would almost always like the same spot at the same time, unless they don’t mind a little companionship.

This one's easy. Corn snakes don't "mind", "hate", or "like" companionship. But if a spot provides optimal temperatures, humidity, and security, it's not surprising that several may share this spot, particularly where the population density is high (it's very high in your tank). Even those 10,000 garters aren't congregating for companionship. They are doing this to meet biological requirements.

 

[PtDnsr]

This one's easy. Corn snakes don't "mind", "hate", or "like" companionship. But if a spot provides optimal temperatures, humidity, and security, it's not surprising that several may share this spot, particularly where the population density is high (it's very high in your tank). Even those 10,000 garters aren't congregating for companionship. They are doing this to meet biological requirements.

Exactly. I completely agree with Dean on that comment.

~Katie

 

[lefty_mussolini]

Thanks for the following: "I wouldn't be surprised if the female could successfully mate at around 24 in. which would most likely result in the death of the female."

I'm lost on the quote: "I had a male that was just under 100 g. successfully mate with an adult female" About how long was your Male?

Lefty/Trevor's not online here at the moment, so I'll answer. For many keepers, length is more of a "fun fact", and we gauge size by weight. Length doesn't tell you that much about the size of a snake. A three foot snake may weigh 200grams or it may weigh 400g. Size at breeding isn't that important for a male from a health perspective. He's not going to be developing, carrying, and laying eggs. But for a female, breeding WEIGHT is a critical factor-- truly a life or death affair.

Thanks Dean, and yeah, pretty much.
But to answer the question, my 100 g. male was probably around 24 in. but I am pretty sure that I've heard of males breeding at an even smaller size.

 

[Smooth_Earth_Snake]

G verses Inches

Thank-you all,

Every body knows every body except me. So I will just say thank-you all. The info you posted make a lot of sense. Thanks for breaking it down in an easy to understand format.

Thanks Dean, and yeah, pretty much.
But to answer the question, my 100 g. male was probably around 24 in. but I am pretty sure that I've heard of males breeding at an even smaller size.

 

[BeckyG]

Every body knows every body except me. .

Stick around and soon you'll know everybody, too.

 

[lefty_mussolini]

Stick around and soon you'll know everybody, too.

Exactly