Is it ok to feed people food?

[Mary-Beth]

Would it be ok if I fed my corn "people food" (ie, chicken, beef, pork, etc that you would get from the store and cook it up)? Would salt, seasonings, butter, etc present a digestive problem?

I hear that they make snake sausages. How different can these be from regular sausages?

I know my snake is attracted to people food cause she always comes out of her shy, reclusive self when she smells my cooking.

Click here.

 

[princess]

I wasn't suggesting going from meat to carrots... i was suggest the same EXACT food product in a differnt Format... WHOLE GROUND MICE... just ground and packaged conveniently all in a box for 6 months worth of feeding! As long as there are no additives... straight ground mice, bones fur and all... packaged in sausage FORMAT... nothing added nothing taken away... same food different package.. see what im sayin???

But the petroleum to hydrogen arguement then doesn't apply as the motor and everything has been redesigned for the new fuel.

I see what you mean...but why would you want to get your snake accustomed to a food that is more expensive, requires special packaging and is removed from the natural state that snakes recognise their food?

 

[Roy Munson]

And where did this idea that the Snake Sausages don't include fur come from? Can you imagine all of these foriegn sweat-shop workers skinning mice and rats? Maybe thats why the sausages are so darned expensive. I think the common concensus is that fur, while not digestible, does play a role in digestion, as fiber.

I'm miles from my copy of Kathy's book at the moment, but I'm fairly certain that she wrote that the snake sausages were lacking entrails and fur. I could be wrong, but I think it's so clear in my memory because, like you, I believe fur plays a role in snake digestion, and I was surprised by its omission from the product. Maybe someone who has the manual nearby can verify this. I would never use the product anyway, so it's a non-issue for me personally.

Humans have come a long way in our ability to process raw food items. It wouldn't surprise me if there is an automated way to skin a rodent. After all, there aren't legions of foreign sweatshop workers peeling every potato that McDonald's uses for their bazillion tons of daily french fries. It's done by some kind of steam/power-washing method.

 

[MegF.]

The Cornsnake manual says that the snake sausages lack fur, feathers, and intestines. My friend bought some to try to feed his difficult feeding rattlesnakes. He figured that they would be easier to use in a force feeding situation as they are smooth and the casing woud make it easy to slip down. I don't know if he ever tried them, and they are too expensive for me to want to use them. As far as alternantive types of meat, I think Cathy Love stated in a thread that went thru here a long while back, that she fed raw chicken necks to some of hers on a TEMPORARY basis when they ran out of mice while on a traveling show thing they were doing. She doesn't recommend using that exclusively as she feels it lacks the proper nutrition. I would stick to regular food for snakes (mice) and leave the gourmet cooking for yourself!

 

[Wilder]

I also seem to recall it was said that the snake sausages caused other problems with the snakes since the casing was too high in fat or something?

People try to argue with nature and feed their dogs crap food that's mostly grains and wonder why the dog ends up with itchy skin, nasty ears, or other problems... now we must argue with nature about feeding snakes mice? How the heck is it so difficult to thaw a mouse and feed it? You'd have to thaw a 'sausage' too.

And I do believe the point Quigs was trying to make is that snakes are nocturnal creatures. They will become more active and less reclusive at dusk and onwards. Perhaps the snake is curious about what you are doing, but don't pat yourself on the back for being a great cook just because the snake comes out.

 

[TrpnBils]

ok, personally the feeding mice doesn't bother me... but whats wrong with a product that can be bought on the shelf... probably cheaper than live mice or even F/T mice... and will probably last longer??? WHY NOT??? You all keep pushing the why whats the point, but if it were out on the market, cheaper and more conveinen that buying live or F/T mice... why not? As long as it meats all of the nutritional needs.

I seriously doubt that it's even close to being the same price as F/T, let alone cheaper because of all of the reasons I mentioned before.

Think about it... you buy your mice F/T for maybe 50cents a piece... first you either have to get the pet store to order them if they don't carry them (i know I do...) Or you have to order them online and pay an additional $30 Shipping and Handling.

If you're paying that much for F/T then you're getting ripped off. The last time I bought a bag of 50 adults, it cost me $4 to get into the reptile show and $15 for the mice.

 

[peep_827]

This is an interesting topic and I just have to add my 2 cents . . .

First, would a snake even eat "people food"? I've never offered mine anything but mice, but I don't imagine them eating a turkey sandwich or something. LOL

Second, why bother with snake sausages? I find F/T mice pretty convenient myself. I don't see how a sausage would be easier to feed. Plus, what about the hassle of convincing the snake to eat it in the first place? I remember reading something about having to make the sausages smell like mice so the snake would eat it. Why not just feed the snake a mouse? No fuss, no muss . . . :wavey:

 

[drizzt_19]

ok, personally the feeding mice doesn't bother me... but whats wrong with a product that can be bought on the shelf... probably cheaper than live mice or even F/T mice... and will probably last longer??? WHY NOT??? You all keep pushing the why whats the point, but if it were out on the market, cheaper and more conveinen that buying live or F/T mice... why not? As long as it meats all of the nutritional needs.

The problem with buying the product off the shelf is that is does not meet all the nutritional needs of a snake...Alot of the nutrients/minerals that snakes need to be healthy are found in the stomach contents of the mouse...If the sausages do not contain any entrails and such, then how is you snake getting any nutrition???

 

[ashleynicole]

The problem with buying the product off the shelf is that is does not meet all the nutritional needs of a snake...Alot of the nutrients/minerals that snakes need to be healthy are found in the stomach contents of the mouse...If the sausages do not contain any entrails and such, then how is you snake getting any nutrition???

I was saying IF they used the bones and entrails and fur and all then it WOULD be nutritious. I know the product that they have now is not complete, but IF they made it more complete to include the entrails and fur then it would be nutritionally sound.

If you're paying that much for F/T then you're getting ripped off. The last time I bought a bag of 50 adults, it cost me $4 to get into the reptile show and $15 for the mice.

I live out in the middle of nowhere ok... I have to get F/T ordered in special and ive been to 4 different pet stores and they are all about the same price. I also live in Florida and things can get a bit more expensive down here from what i hear from people that visit from up north.

I am not saying the sausages are cheaper than mice, at this point and time they are more expenseive and In My Opinion, not nutritionally complete. BUT why cant you be more open mided and see the POTENTIAL of a cheaper alternative in the FUTURE!?!?

 

[TrpnBils]

First, would a snake even eat "people food"? I've never offered mine anything but mice, but I don't imagine them eating a turkey sandwich or something.

Actually, a breeder friend of mine has an adult female blizzard that I almost bought off of him last year that will eat pieces of raw steak. He said he only did it once or twice though :licklips:

 

[TrpnBils]

Also, I did a google search on "snake sausage" and found a few posts on other forums that might be of interest.

Many years ago I worked in a pet store that sold them, so I tried them on a few of my cal kings.
Only one would eat them, and for the next 3 weeks, any waste material that came from the snake was YELLOW! and smelled really badly.
So I took that as a bad sign, and never used them again.

Stick with rodents, its what they are designed to eat.

No one really knows what goes into the snake sausages. The company that makes them has been asked and they refuse to answer. Instead they give the old "propriety" excuse. When someone refuses to give you a straight answer, it usually means the answer isn't a good one. Stay away from the sausages and stick to rodents.

My biggest concern is the lack of fiber. Most snakes need hair or feathers in the diet to be used as roughage to aid in digestion.

So it appears that there's still a lot of work to be done before snake sausage becomes a viable alternative to real food.

 

[DAND]

Actually, a breeder friend of mine has an adult female blizzard that I almost bought off of him last year that will eat pieces of raw steak. He said he only did it once or twice though :licklips:

Sorry, if it's going to eat better than me then I'll pass on that purchase.

 

[daufoi]

Alot of the nutrients/minerals that snakes need to be healthy are found in the stomach contents of the mouse

If this is true, then it's not the mouse that's providing the nutrition to the snake. It's, as you say, whatever the mouse ate. And therefore, a substitute for the mouse is very plausible and possibly more nutritious.

 

[drizzt_19]

If this is true, then it's not the mouse that's providing the nutrition to the snake. It's, as you say, whatever the mouse ate. And therefore, a substitute for the mouse is very plausible and possibly more nutritious.

That is true..An alternative is definetley possible, however, the only problem is do the companies making this product want to put the time and effort into it...

I have posted a breakdown of nutritional content of different feeder animals in a previous post...You may want to do a search on Nutrition Value and have a look...

Most people foods will either have to much(can be harmful) or not enough of the essential vitamins/minerals...I can't think of a single proccesed food item consumed by humans that contains all of the vitamins/minerals that a mouse does...Most processed foods contain no fiber(fur) or calcium in amounts large enough to be beneficial...Also most processed foods do not contain D3 which is essential for reptiles to help breakdown and absorb calcium...

I would love to see a "sausage" that is nutritionally complete or another food source that is even better...I have been looking for awhile and the only thing better then a mouse nutrition wise is an anole, and they are expensive...

 

[Taceas]

i was suggest the same EXACT food product in a differnt Format... WHOLE GROUND MICE... just ground and packaged conveniently all in a box for 6 months worth of feeding! As long as there are no additives... straight ground mice, bones fur and all... packaged in sausage FORMAT... nothing added nothing taken away... same food different package.. see what im sayin???

I see what you're saying, but like TrpnBils said, mice are already their own sausage. Complete with their own handle to hold them by. =P

Whole ground would have its benefits. Hurley has already done an informal experiment with slitting the skin of the feeder mice to make them more easily digestible, and those snakes actually grew faster. So grinding the meat would have the benefit of making the food more easily processed.

However, I don't think its entirely practical for most of us, not to mention affordable. Most people find f/t mice already beyond convenient, thats why they use them. And frozen mice also digest faster than fresh, because the tissues are somewhat broken down in the freezing process. If whole mice are packaged in a way to prevent freezer burn, they can last for a couple of years at least. So I don't see how the sausages would be any better for storage than the whole mice.

Also, what are you going to package the ground up contents in? I have real issues with the fake casings just for my own family's consumption. So if I buy sausages, I would like them to be made from the real deal. And if they can't disclose to me on the package or in person whats in it, I'm not buying it.

I think the main person things like this would be attractive to would be the crowd who is grossed out by feeding mice. Which personally, I'm of the camp that says if you can't handle what they eat...get a hamster for a pet.

My dog and cats occasionally get raw, uncooked, unprocessed meats, cuttings from the chickens we slaughter, and they love them. So I'm also not the crowd that buys crappy food from Walmart that's mostly artificial colorings, additives, and grains for my cats or dog. The food my animals eat MUST have meat as the primary ingredient, or it stays on the shelf. My fish get skeeter larvae when in season as well.

But my snakes get freshly killed mice, that I raise myself. I know whats going into them, I know how they were killed, what sort of life they led. I also know that my own snakes that I've hatched and raised here grow a lot better than the snakes that I buy from people who've fed them f/t their entire lives. You just can't beat a good dose of digestive flora/fauna for good digestion. Hence why we eat yogurt and take probiotics, for our own digestive health. And when grinding EVERYTHING up, I can imagine most of those beneficial bacteria would subsequently die or else, spoil the rest of the sausage. Thats why you don't shoot the animals you hunt in the gut, those bacteria in the gut can taint the meat something fierce.

So no, I don't think feeding cooked anything to your snake would be nutritionally appropriate. It'd be like putting the standard lactose-intolerant American in the African bush where milk is the central food source for many of the native cultures, and where lactose intolerance is rare. Sure its edible, but that doesn't mean they're equipped to digest it properly.

I live out in the middle of nowhere ok... I have to get F/T ordered in special

That's pretty much the majority of Americans, hun. Most people who use f/t have to ORDER it as well! Its cheaper to buy in bulk. Petstores of any name will always charge more for things, always. If f/t is a hassle, do what I do...raise your own mice. Or find a friend in the area to split an order with, Joejr was looking for someone not a month ago for just that. You're not dealing with issues most of us haven't dealt with already. And shipping is expensive anywhere you live especially if its a heavy box with big dimensions that's being overnighted or 2-day'd. Them's just the apples..

I am not saying the sausages are cheaper than mice, at this point and time they are more expenseive and In My Opinion, not nutritionally complete. BUT why cant you be more open mided and see the POTENTIAL of a cheaper alternative in the FUTURE!?!?

We are open minded, but we also realize its just not practical or realistic in the long run. If the same type of people who would spend the time and money make the sausages, they're going to add in things they feel are beneficial to the snake; vitamins and minerals, preservatives and goodness knows what else. Because the people that would buy them would be the ignorant crowd who doesn't research the facts.

Based on the past history, anything that has to be taken, altered whether by machinery or hand, and then packaged is going to be more expensive. For me to raise my own chickens costs me pennies a day versus buying the meat in the store. Not to mention it tastes far better and I get eggs out of the deal as well. I personally don't mind a little bit of work to get an awesome meal.

Shep151 just bought half a cow for MUCH less than it would cost him to buy the meat from that exact same half-cow in the store. The store meat being sliced up and packaged all into nice stryofoam trays and plastic-wrapped. I'm sure most of what he's getting from the processing place is wrapped in freezer paper and/or vacuum packed. Its minimally processed.

And now for my grand finale rant..and I am in no way religious, but since most of the US population is here's some points I have to throw out there.

This whole subject is a moot point. If you want to feed your snake grilled chicken, go ahead. It's a free country. If it was BBQ sauce with it, then you've got a problem.

You can also feed your newborn soy milk because milking cows is bad...nevermind the udders sitting on your chest. God put boobs on a woman's chest to feed babies the absolute best (sorry men). But more and more mothers are finding that inconvenient.

And that is the clincher, we are too much a society based on convenience, imho. If taking a frozen mouse of the freezer, thawing it and feeding it to your snake is too much work...forget the hamster, get a rock. No feeding required.

 

[Wilder]

I am not saying the sausages are cheaper than mice, at this point and time they are more expenseive and In My Opinion, not nutritionally complete. BUT why cant you be more open mided and see the POTENTIAL of a cheaper alternative in the FUTURE!?!?

Actually, I'd love to know how you're figuring the sausages would be cheaper than MICE? I would dare to say that unless you ordered them in bulk (and thus run into the same shipping problem you seem to have with f/t mice), you'll be paying even more for it by the time the sausages are processed, packaged, labeled, and shipped to the store you would purchase it from.

And really, how are the mice so expensive? You can buy a pack of 25 adult mice from www.miceonice.com for what, $22? Yes, you pay shipping, but if you're feeding ONE snake every 10 days, how long will that last you? I'd love it if I could feed my dogs for that length of time by spending so little!

Honestly, how much more easy and convenient can it get than f/t mice? Having someone come in and prepare the mouse and feed the snake for you? Sheesh, go to the zoo and see the animals there if that's the case.

 

[Quigs]

I honestly can't even believe this is still being discussed.

:sobstory:

Q

 

[stormi]

Would it be ok if I fed my corn "people food" (ie, chicken, beef, pork, etc that you would get from the store and cook it up)? Would salt, seasonings, butter, etc present a digestive problem?

I hear that they make snake sausages. How different can these be from regular sausages?

I know my snake is attracted to people food cause she always comes out of her shy, reclusive self when she smells my cooking.

think of it this way...could (or whould) you eat the snakes food?i think not.

 

[ashleynicole]

So it appears that there's still a lot of work to be done before snake sausage becomes a viable alternative to real food.

That is the point i was trying to make

 

[ashleynicole]

Tacaes... i also find it much better to raise my own chickens and cattle as well... when i lived at home we had chickens, a wonderful supply of eggs, and butchered a steer each year and hardly ever had to buy meat at teh grocery store. Now my husband and I live in a townhouse and can't do that agian till we buy some land. sorry, that was totally off topic... but my point was i may try breeding the mice, im just afraid that i would get attached to them.

I know that F/T mice are the best right now, its just like it is better for us to eat fresh veggies we grow and meat we kill that hasn't been processed... BUT DO WE??? HECK NO.. we buy that nasty processed crap because its conveinent and our bodies suffer because of it. I myself have been convinced to stick to the F/T... i never really planned on deviating from it... I just wish poeple would stop attacking me and realize what im saying... im not saying the sausages are better... just saying that they could POTENTIALLY be a healthy alternative if it was done right, just trying to get people to open their minds a bit and see that it is a possibility.