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Jay has a lump: Constipated, Eggbound, Infection....?

Simply Jé

Simply Jé

New member
Hello everyone, I'm Jenna and it's my first time posting though I've been using this board as a resource to help me ever since I got my corn snake in May. While I will go further into that story when I post belatedly in New Member Introductions thread, Jay showed up in my house May 20th, eluding capture for a couple of days (even showing up while I was taking a shower hanging out of a hole in the ceiling left by water damage). We caught her and determined she was likely an escaped pet, only about 1 year old, and decided to keep her when no one responded to our FOUND notices in the neighborhood. I love her very much. I've been hurriedly trying to learn about corn snakes since, though my husband has some knowledge from keeping snakes about 20 years ago.

My problem is: she had a rather long blue period and after her last shed two days ago (the 17th) I noticed she seemed swollen beginning a little above her cloacal opening. It seems to be swollen mainly ventrally but either side as well as the top is raised to some degree.
Yesterday:jaylump3.JPG Today:jaylump2.JPGjaylump8.19.JPG
I will back up a little bit and provide some context.

Initially a friend sexed Jay as a male, but when she laid a slug on July 30th and another on the 31st and we had to reconsider. The one on the 30th was just a deflated and somewhat yellow egg that I saw along with her regular post-feed poo, the one on the 31st a small circular shaped much yellower one, along with a sort of strange wormy defecation that I think was mouse fur? Probably not relevant, but I will post the gross picture if anyone believes it may be.

I fed her a size up in mice the next feed on the August 5th, as I had ordered Layne Labs' small adults along with hoppers and they seemed to be appropriate size wise, not much larger than the hoppers and about the size of her midsection.
jayfeeding8.5.jpg

At this point, there was no sign of any swelling judging from my memory and the pictures I took, though some areas are obscured and it is POSSIBLE that there was something already going on.

I plan on feeding her soon, as her shedding and now this has now delayed me three days from her usual every-ten-days routine. I am looking into a nearby reptile vet. Earlier today I gave her a lukewarm bath and she released a bit of urates in the water...sort of a puff of powder. The lump is not hard per se but it doesn't move up and down.

I will continue to bathe her, but I don't really suspect constipation because she poo'd five days after she ate, and it seemed large enough to be everything. I don't necessarily suspect more eggs are stuck up there because she didn't seem to have any lumps until two weeks after she laid them. Then again, I'm entirely new at this and only just found out she was female. In addition, she was in her hide so much of the time between the shedding pre-egg, post-laying and all, I just can't say I've been keeping that close of an eye. She's acting basically normal, though after the hectic cage pacing of what I assumed to be her breeding time behavior around the time of egg-laying, she seems to spend a lot of time in the hide. It isn't totally clear whether she is bothered when I touch the swollen area.

What should I look out for? Should I just take her to the vet as soon as possible?
Thank you so much for reading this rather long post.
 
One more note

OH! possibly important: I also moved Jay from the 15 g enclosure I had borrowed from a friend to a 40 g breeder tank ($ per gallon sale at Petco) on the 10th. I cleaned it beforehand, put in an appropriately larger heating pad and it seems to be keeping a good temp. For the first time, I put in a bunch of aspen on top of her paper towel substrate, and perhaps the thick layer prevented her from getting the heat needed to digest properly.
 
It's hard to say. Certainly could be another slug, or it could be poo. If you hold her up to the light is it dark there?

I'd take her to the vet just for peace of mind considering she was on her own for a while and may have parasites. A fecal would probably be beneficial.

Best wishes. Lovely snake and good for rescuing her!
 
DollysMom said:
It's hard to say. Certainly could be another slug, or it could be poo. If you hold her up to the light is it dark there?

I'd take her to the vet just for peace of mind considering she was on her own for a while and may have parasites. A fecal would probably be beneficial.

Best wishes. Lovely snake and good for rescuing her!
Click to expand...
Thank you for your reply! I loved the way Jay showed up to our house, seems like she chose us so who am I to argue?

I just held her lump in front of a flashlight and honestly I couldn't see any darkness...seemed to glow as pink as the rest of her.
 
Poo usually looks opaque, so maybe a slug? That's something I'm not familiar with-- haven't dealt with slugs. Hope someone who has weighs in. The lump does look like when my young girl, Cleo, has a load sometimes.
 
My guess would be a slug - it doesn't look like a poo bulge to me unless she's VERY badly backed up, and that doesn't sound likely if she's pooped since she last ate. You could provide a lay box so that she can have somewhere inviting to lay? Sometimes corns can hold onto eggs/slugs for ages if there's nowhere they feel is suitable. If feasible a trip to the vets would be good. As has been said, parasites are a possibility in a snake that's been out in the wild for a bit.
 
Looking at it again, I had to go to back to April to find a pic of Cleo with a poo bulge and like Giga said, much less dramatic. Funny how it had grown in my mind, lol.

jZoCjKHl.jpg
 
Lay box will be set up today if all goes well. As its the weekend, I will have to wait until Monday at the earliest for a vet. I really ought to have had her checked for parasites as she had clearly been eating well enough and had a couple of small scabs either from prey or coming up on something inside our walls. She just seemed so well otherwise, and the scabs came off in the first shed. Anyway, I will update as soon as any change.
 
Put a lay box in her cage earlier today, she went in and hasn't left as far as I can tell, going on 8 hours. So she's settled in there and I hope she can pass those eggs--if thats what the lump even is--and they haven't gotten too hard. I'd like to think her taking such a liking to the lay box is a good sign but she also tends to really commit to staying in a hide whenever I give her a new one.
 
I know what you mean about them committing to a hide! I'm glad she's using it and I hope the humidity helps her with any slugs. Thanks for keeping us posted I'm looking forward to updates.
 
To feed or not to feed my bumpy snake

jay8.21.jpg

After over 24 hours curled up in the hide, she has come back out for a few laps around the tank. She doesn't seem unwell and the bump hasn't gotten larger, smaller, or moved at all. Still no slugs laid.

Tomorrow it'll be 17 days since I last fed her, and I usually feed her every 10. If I can't get a vet appointment for her on Monday or Tuesday, I wonder if feeding her would impede the release of whatever she's holding on to. If I can get an appointment sooner than I'll hold off just so she's not mid-digestion for the vet
 
Simply Jé said:
After over 24 hours curled up in the hide, she has come back out for a few laps around the tank. She doesn't seem unwell and the bump hasn't gotten larger, smaller, or moved at all. Still no slugs laid.

Tomorrow it'll be 17 days since I last fed her, and I usually feed her every 10. If I can't get a vet appointment for her on Monday or Tuesday, I wonder if feeding her would impede the release of whatever she's holding on to. If I can get an appointment sooner than I'll hold off just so she's not mid-digestion for the vet
Click to expand...

Hi there Simply Je! How ya been?

Just wondering, have you tried giving your little sneaky one a bath? Room temp water, just enough to comfortably swim around in, hold onto her at first so she don't panic. Sometimes, if a snake is constipated, the motions and physical exertion they need to swim will loosen something which might be stuck, for lack of a better term.

After that, if it doesn't work on whatever that lump may be, feeding her might not be a bad idea! First of all, most snakes who are gravid WON'T eat when food is offered. My Lilly is normally VORACIOUS! The first time she refused a rodent was last year only a couple of weeks prior to her laying a nice clutch. She also shed the day after I offered her food, which was another sign something wasn't right. But if your snake eats, it not only lessens the chance she's got any eggs in her, whether fertile or not. It might help her boost her immune system in order to fight against whatever IS causing that lump near her tail or vent!

As far as whether or not you should feed her prior to a vet visit, well, I would opt for the vet if she were mine, as to feed her would have to delay bringing her to one for a few days. Your call, but I'd check on that before feeding her if the bath doesn't work. URGENT: Just remember, if you DO opt for giving her a bath, be extremely careful to plug up any holes or drains nearby, as you don't wanna add to your concerns a LOST sneaky one! YIKES!!! Bite my tongue! But better safe than sorry, so I HADDA say it!! (Even when you think they're slow, they can be FAST!! Take it from someone who's lost a snake down the vents in the dashboard of my car!!!! After he was hanging out so peacefully on my rearview mirror for what seemed like FOREVER!! Never DID locate that gorgeous snake either! Been kicking myself in the ass ever since!! Just sayin'.)

Either way, I'd try the bath first, then determine the availability of a vet afterwards and THEN, feed her accordingly. Of course, it's your call, but please keep us updated!!
 
Just wondering, have you tried giving your little sneaky one a bath? Room temp water, just enough to comfortably swim around in, hold onto her at first so she don't panic. Sometimes, if a snake is constipated, the motions and physical exertion they need to swim will loosen something which might be stuck, for lack of a better term.
Click to expand...

Hi axis1, thank you for writing! I gave Jay a bath before my first post, not a very long one, but just until I saw she had released a little bit of urates. I will try so again today although I'm suspecting it may not be poo at all since she had a sizable one after the last meal. This is her now, no real change.

jay8.20.jpg

Good news, I got a vet appointment tomorrow afternoon, so hopefully this will be cleared up soon! I don't know that they'll be able to check for parasites because she isn't making any poo (other than that which she mixed in for a moment with her bath) to test.

Just as an aside, here's a picture of her the day before we caught her. I had been taking a shower and the steam and heat hitting this broken hole in my ceiling attracted her (the rest of my house is quite presentable, this is just the last priority for my landlord for years now).

jayceiling.jpg

I was....Horrified. Bringing her back into the bathroom-the scene of the crime- to put her in a plastic tub-within-the-tub had me extra careful not to let get back into our plumbing and or walls!
 
Post-vet visit

dNot the best news, but my wallet and Jay will both survive, wounded. Vet judged by somewhat recent slug laying, palpitation, and an x-ray that it is a stuck slug or two...the eggs weren't calcified at all and he actually recommended I start her on calcium supplements since her slugs came out so soft and one was a different size and shape than the other. I gave the go ahead for him to attempt to move it toward her cloaca with some KY and a fancy stick of some kind, but after ten or so minutes of getting it to ALMOST the opening, he decided it is too stuck to remove this way. It was coming down to the opening but she was refusing to open, and once he released it the lump moved back up to where it formerly was. She seems to still be in good spirits, so that procedure didn't cause any real internal damage, which he admitted was a risk. The corn snake-Oxytocin injection (name escapes me now) to induce laying was decided against because 1. they didn't carry it and would have to special order it and 2. would probably not be successful as the lube-and-stick method seemed to indicate.

So, end result.... I am giving her a swimming bath every day, maintaining a laybox in her cage, and if she doesn't release this damn slug in the next couple of weeks she has an appointment for surgery.... too bad she hates those baths, they're our only hope!
 
On a lighter note, the vet said Jay has a rather masculine tail and wasn't surprised she was mis-sexed. There was also a tortoise boarding there who was visiting all the rooms and at one point was slowly rolling a large cart forward as it walked.
 
Thanks for the update.

Well, at least you know what the cause is now. I don't know about anyone else, but when any of my pets (or me actually) are under the weather, the hardest thing is not knowing why. Now that you have a diagnosis, you can have a plan of action!

I personally would cease with the daily baths - I am not sure that they are known to help with stuck eggs, it's more for constipation (although anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong!), and baths are quite stressful for snakes. I would take a hands-off approach and just leave her in her viv, undisturbed for a good week or so with her lay box. Perhaps with the daily baths and handling, and now the vet visit, she just hasn't felt relaxed and calm enough to settle into her lay box and actually lay.
 
Yeah, about the bathing for eggs concept...some of their advice seemed counter to what I've been reading all this time. The vet works much of the time caring for the reptiles at the local zoo so I'm sure he's a good authority, but she just doesn't look like she's getting ready to lay an egg in that water, while she loves curling up in the lay box. Part of me wants to do the baths just so I can report to them surgery day (IF she doesn't lay on her own in the meantime) that I dutifully followed directions....kinda like flossing daily to make the dentist proud
 
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