• Hello!

    Either you have not registered on this site yet, or you are registered but have not logged in. In either case, you will not be able to use the full functionality of this site until you have registered, and then logged in after your registration has been approved.

    Registration is FREE, so please register so you can participate instead of remaining a lurker....

    Please be certain that the location field is correctly filled out when you register. All registrations that appear to be bogus will be rejected. Which means that if your location field does NOT match the actual location of your registration IP address, then your registration will be rejected.

    Sorry about the strictness of this requirement, but it is necessary to block spammers and scammers at the door as much as possible.

My new Junglecorn

Appology

I in no way ment to call Craycorn a irresponsible herper and for that I'm sorry. I do not know you well enough to judge you. I was referning to the creation of Hybrids and thier miss represetation in the industy! I just got a little worked up...I that we will have to agree to disagree! But I do stand strong in my beliefs that Hybrids are inherently wrong!
 
I am not a fan of the idea of hybrids either, but I don't have a problem as long as they are represented correctly.
I think this jungle is GORGEOUS though. Congrats!
 
But I do stand strong in my beliefs that Hybrids are inherently wrong!
Click to expand...
Maybe it's just me, but this doesn't make ANY sense at all.

I've been involved in a lot of debates about hybrids. I ask the same question every time, and it always ends the discussion because nobody can answer. I've yet to hear a single person ever explain how, when two "species" (as are arbitrarily defined as "species" by humans) are compatible enough to produce fertile offspring, there's some "inherent law of the universe" which overrules this, saying that they still "shouldn't" (as per someone's opinion) ever produce offspring.

I won't be holding my breath... :rolleyes:
 
Colonel - WAY TO GO! :D

Serp -
But I do stand strong in my beliefs that Hybrids are inherently wrong!
Click to expand...

Maybe it's just me, but this doesn't make ANY sense at all.
Click to expand...

Would you ever consider a hybrid or intergrade to be wrong or maybe even dangerous?

You had a great question - I've yet to hear a single person ever explain how, when two "species" are compatible enough to produce fertile offspring.

In way am I condemning or supporting intergrades and hybrids by the following, just food for thought:

While it may be possible for these animals to produce offspring in the wild, is it ok for people to make the decision to do it in a lab?

Specifically, I'm thinking of "africanized bees" (killer bees)

Like I said, just food for thought. I own a creamsicle (no breeding plans at the present) and really like some of the amel jungle corns I've seen
 
Would you ever consider a hybrid or intergrade to be wrong or maybe even dangerous?
...Specifically, I'm thinking of "africanized bees" (killer bees)
Click to expand...
I didn't say "all hybridization is cool and without consequence." ;) (I also don't mean to imply that you put those words in my mouth.)

You can point out cases where it can be a bad idea, and I would add "crossing venomous species without knowing the natures of their venoms" to the list. But this doesn't make hybridization in general "inherently wrong" by any means. Some cases involving hybridization are a bad idea, but that doesn't automagically extend to "all."

"Some people are criminals, so all humans should be incarcerated." :eek: See what I mean?

The difference between that and, say corn X king hybridization, is the difference between the creation of something which is out of control and physically harms and/or kills people, versus something that offends some peoples' tastes and/or goes against their personal opinion of the "ideal" genetic makeup of a population of animals.

IMO it's extremely arrogant to say "I have cornered the market on knowing what is the ideal gene pool for this species and all you people who disagree with me are inherently wrong."

I like vanilla ice cream. Chocolate ice cream offends my tastes. They make it in the same vat as vanilla ice cream. And it's not possible to remove every single "chocolate molecule" from the vat, so it introduces impurities into vanilla ice cream. Therefore, chocolate ice cream is "inherently wrong." Right? ;)
 
WEll I can say that they are wrong because man will put two species that will never meet in the wild and breed them. I am aware of several projects of people crossing African Rock Pythons & Burmese Pythons how is that natural? They don't even live on the same continent! So if an animal does not naturaly integrage in the wild it's not right...I mean we (human kind) are so arrogent that we think because of a few years of genetic study we can beat mother nature I don't think so. There is a reason why they don't breed in the wild so we should leave it that way.
 
Not posting my views because I feel it's too bad CornCrazy couldn't post a picture of her beautiful snake in the PHOTO forum without getting comments on her choices. She bought it. Her buisness, she just wanted to share a photo. Cripes.

Really beautiful snake CornCrazy, no matter what it is.

bmm
 
Thanks bmm, but there's no need to feel bad for me. I personally don't care whether other people have a problem with hybrids or not. They are entitled to their opinions:) And I'm entitled to mine :D

I'm glad you think she is pretty!
 
Colonel SB said:
WEll I can say that they are wrong because man will put two species that will never meet in the wild and breed them. I am aware of several projects of people crossing African Rock Pythons & Burmese Pythons how is that natural? They don't even live on the same continent! So if an animal does not naturaly integrage in the wild it's not right...I mean we (human kind) are so arrogent that we think because of a few years of genetic study we can beat mother nature I don't think so. There is a reason why they don't breed in the wild so we should leave it that way.
Click to expand...
So, to sum up, you're saying natural = good and unnatural = bad?

Murder, rape, and many other things which are considered immoral all occur in nature. I don't see why anyone in their right mind would use "mother nature" as a role model for moral reasoning. It's completely ridiculous.
 
First of, please excuse my English, I am not a native speaker.

Allthough I don't feel "anti-hybrid" as strongly as Colonel SB, I do agree with him on the arrogance of human-kind.

Other species evolved to best match their natural habitat, humans adjust the natural world to best suit there needs. We spread to all parts of the world and conquer (spelling?) these parts, much like a virus would...

So I also feel that hybrids wich are "unnatural" should not be MADE (made being the appropriate word here). This is a purely ethical reason, some people feel stronger about this then others, as you stated serp....I can't give you definite hardcore scientific evidence why these hybrid shouldn't be produced. I FEEL that they shouldn't ;)

The first hybrid was prolly an accident or a hobby breeder wondering what the outcome would be, however when the commercial breeders got a hold of this "knowledge" they started producing jungle-corns in great numbers, wich could be sold for a lot more then "regular" corn offspring. This is pure economic reasoning...

"mother nature" wasn't paying the bills anymore, so human-kind created something that would...THIS to me is "wrong"

Only when we have cut down all the forests, killed all the animals and polluted the skys...........we discover that we can't eat money !!
 
The first hybrid was prolly an accident or a hobby breeder wondering what the outcome would be, however when the commercial breeders got a hold of this "knowledge" they started producing jungle-corns in great numbers, wich could be sold for a lot more then "regular" corn offspring. This is pure economic reasoning...
Click to expand...
Let me get this straight. You're saying that hybrid production is only about money... and other snake production by commercial breeders is about... what?

And what about the rest of us who want to make them because we like them? I know it may be hard to swallow, but some of us actually find them interesting, regardless of what amount of money someone else might think they're worth.

"mother nature" wasn't paying the bills anymore, so human-kind created something that would...THIS to me is "wrong"

Only when we have cut down all the forests, killed all the animals and polluted the skys...........we discover that we can't eat money !!
Click to expand...
Oh, I didn't realize that hybridizing would cause mass deforestation, stop all photosynthesis in its tracks, end all life on the entire planet, and cause the sky to fall.:eek:

HELLO!?!?!?

They're jungle corns. Get a grip dude, seriously.
 
Ok, after reading this surprisingly long thread, I wanted to add a couple of things.

1) BEAUTIFUL snake! Absolutely love the colours, I had no idea that's how jungle's looked! Might see if I can get one to add to my collection...

2) now here's the long bit. As I was reading this I was thinking (and Serp beat me to posting this!) if hybrids are so 'inherently' wrong then why are viable offspring produced?

I'm not as up on genetics as some, but I have a basic grasp of natural selection, genes and evolution etc. and from all my teachings on these subjects I have learnt that if, by chance, 2 members of different spp mate and the proposed offspring would be 'wrong' then no offspring would be produced. Or, in some cases, offspring are produced but they are infertile so as to prevent furthur generations (I think this is the case with mules and asses? Donkey x horse = infertile offspring).
But, I have to bring this point up. Many of those against hybridization are arguing cases saying how it could destruct nature as we know it etc etc. OUR SNAKES ARE CAPTIVE! There is nothing natural about it! So, technically, I don't think these arguments are valid. Sure, I agree that all hybrids should be properly labelled as has already been discussed but how can hybrid corns be of any threat to the natural (non-endagered) population? I am, of course, assuming that all herpers are responsible and do not release captive bred snakes which, in my opinion is very wrong and would cause concern with genetic variations etc. I hope this makes sense, I find the whole genetics thing difficult enough without having to try to write it down!

Basically, I think out crossing is fine so long as they are proerly 'labelled' and not sold on as pure breds and they are not introduced to wild populations.
 
Jeez, I am sorry Crazy Corn

I figured that some people would respond to my comments, but I didn't think it would go this far. Your snake is absolutlely beautiful, and since I saw her pic I have been looking for one in my area. I guess I will have to wait until the next reptile show and see what is there. Congrats on that gorgeous little girl.:p
 
Easy Serp...easy, didn't mean to get you so upset ;)

That print in bold was ment as a qoute, something worth thinking about, nothing straight-up to do with hybridisation !!

I to find some hybrids stunning, I am partial to albino jungle's myself...however as a matter of principle I don't aquire them.

Not ALL people who own and breed hybrids do it for the money, offcourse not. However I do feel they have become somewhat of a novelty item and many people nowadays are breeding them because they are priced higher then alot of pure species.

So while'st I am not going to buy hybrids myself, I don't have any problem with people who do. BUT everybody who breeds them should represent them correctly, even if there is only 0.1% "inpurity" in there, the animal should still be sold as being a hybrid.

In short, the hybrid discussion is one that could go on forever...so the "agree to disagree" saying sounds good to me.

Again, it wasn't my intention to get you so worked up ;)
 
I think jungle corns look quite stunning (check out unusual albinos.com) Almost all captive bred snakes would never be able to survive and in the case of junglecorns, contanimate wild populations. Especially with the unatural colorations of most Junglecorns.
I definetly disagree with hybridization if people are going to be stupid and label a jungle corn as a pure corn or king. If people will corectly label hybryds I do not see a problem. Its unatural to keep snakes in captivity anyways.
 
mattsnake said:
I think jungle corns look quite stunning (check out unusual albinos.com) Almost all captive bred snakes would never be able to survive and in the case of junglecorns, contanimate wild populations. Especially with the unatural colorations of most Junglecorns.
I definetly disagree with hybridization if people are going to be stupid and label a jungle corn as a pure corn or king. If people will corectly label hybryds I do not see a problem. Its unatural to keep snakes in captivity anyways.
Click to expand...

Spot on! That was what I was trying to say but as usual just confused myself (and probably alot of others too!). People are too quick to say 'oh but that isn't natural' or 'but this is how they do it in the wild' etc etc but fail to remember that our CAPTIVE snakes are not natural nor will they behave as wild corns do (for the most part anway). I'll stop now before it gets confusing!
 
stunning snake ,i love the jungles and have just bought a trio,will post in a couple of days,(need new battery's again )

i even think we should have a section on this forum just for jungleCORNS lol, but hey this is not my site !!!:D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top