Need advice / instruction...

[hartsock]

Okay, here is the situation...

I got a red tail boa in the beginning of December, same day that both of my daughters got hampsters...(yes, I was thinking the same thing too). My oldest daughter is deathly afraid of snakes (13yr old) my youngest (8yr old) loves them. I had been thinking about getting another snake (one that woudln't need a 6ft cage when fully grown and one that coudln't kill me...) and I was really thinking about cornsnakes. We were at the pet store about 3 weeks ago and my youngest saw a corn that she fell in love with, so after about 10 minutes of the puppy dog eyes, I gave in and got it. So after I get home and start considering that I need to feed two pinkies a week to the corn and two full grown to the boa, that maybe I should start a colony of feeder mice here at the house. (still don't understand why frozen pinkies cost as much as frozen adults????) The thing is, I really don't want to keep the mice in the house. In high school, I did an experiement with genetics in mice and started out with two, by the end of school, I had over 96 mice and it was a pain in the rear. We kept trying to seperate them, but by the time the testicles dropped, someone was pregnant.

What I was thinking was that when the weather got warmer in spring (I live in PA) to start a colony in the detached garage. Run the colony through to winter, end it and restart it again in the spring. All I am really looking for at this point is to supply my own needs of these two snakes, and possibly any more (puppy dog eyes, dad is a softy) that might come into our house.

So what I want to know is where do I start...What type of temp do I need to keep the mice at? What is the best to feed them? I have access to day old bread and produce once a week and it is free? can I use that as main staple and then supplement with normal mouse food? If the cost of the food is going to be comparable to buying the mice, I might as well buy the frozen and save the time and effort. Would it be reasonable to just run the coloney over the spring/summer/fall months or would that not produce what I am thinking I will need. Also, how do I humanely kill them? I have heard about the Co2 method, but how would I set it up? Also, if I find that I am getting an abundance, is it...uh, what is the word that I am looking for....cooth, proper.... to check with local pet store if they would like to purchase them or give store credit for extras?

I know this is alot of questions and I am sorry for that, I just firgured that if I wanted to get info I could trust, this is where it would be best.

 

[Fenderplayer108]

So what I want to know is where do I start...What type of temp do I need to keep the mice at? What is the best to feed them? I have access to day old bread and produce once a week and it is free? can I use that as main staple and then supplement with normal mouse food? If the cost of the food is going to be comparable to buying the mice, I might as well buy the frozen and save the time and effort. Would it be reasonable to just run the coloney over the spring/summer/fall months or would that not produce what I am thinking I will need. Also, how do I humanely kill them? I have heard about the Co2 method, but how would I set it up? Also, if I find that I am getting an abundance, is it...uh, what is the word that I am looking for....cooth, proper.... to check with local pet store if they would like to purchase them or give store credit for extras?

I know this is alot of questions and I am sorry for that, I just firgured that if I wanted to get info I could trust, this is where it would be best.

Congrats on getting a corn snake first of all. They make wonderful pets, and help those with fears of snakes get over it really quickly.

First, mice have been kept at all temps. They have been kept in the 60's, and in the mid 80's. In order for them to do best and thrive, my personal preference for them would be room temperature, around 74-76. When they are kept at too cold of temp's, they may eat there baby's due to stress. You can feed them pretty much anything, but remember, what you feed the mice, will eventually go into the snakes you are feeding. You can go to your local farm store and buy large qualities of rodent blocks, which is what most of us use. I also use a mixture of seeds, grain, corn, and other things that come in the variety bag that I get at a local petstore.

The food for the mice can be cheap, and it can be expensive. You will probably be paying less either way for your own rodents, because its probably not in your best interest to buy in bulk online, because you would have a lot left over for only two snakes.

You could breed during those seasons, and cull the colony at the end. Then when you want to start back up, start fresh with new breeders.

For culling them off, I think that the majority of us just freeze pinks through fuzzy stage. After that, all the fur they have, it would be in-humane to freeze them directly. I always like to flick them in the head to render them unconscious before I put them in the freezer. If you search on this forum, there are plenty of threads talking about ways to kill rodents humanly, and there are a few threads on how to make a C02 chamber.

All in all, its a great way to get rodents with a small colony. They do get stinky, but if you keep up with them and clean them once to twice a week, give them a decent tank/cage size, they will be fine.

Have a great day!

 

[Flagg]

Mice need tempos between 60-80 degrees to produce. Outside that range they will cease production and start dying off.

Keeping them outside introduces a whole host of new possible risks, like exposure to parasites, wild rodents, disease from wild mice and rats, etc.

Mice really aren't hard to sex once they reach fuzzy stage, you can usually see the nipples on the females. Barring that, by the time they reach 3-4 weeks you should be able to make out the testicles, and they rarely reproduce that early.

Are you planning on euthanizing and freezing them or feeding live? You're really better off feeding frozen/thawed for various reasons. It's much safer for your snakes and also allows you to easily keep the population from getting out of control.

As for getting started, a 10 gal tank with a secure screen top is a good size habitat for them, say 1.2 to 1.4 You'll also need a water bottle with a an aquarium hanger and some type of substrate. A cardboard box will do for a hide/nesting box. For food you really should feed them lab blocks. Scraps are ok for supplements but not a main staple. Remember these are being raised for your snakes and they should be as healthy as possible.

You can get lab blocks fairly cheap at feed stores or reptile shows/feeder breeders. Pet shops , if they even stock lab blocks, charge far too much and usually carry Kaytee brand which is poor quality and should not be used. Harlan or Mazuri are the best brands, mazuri is made by Purina and should be available at a decent feed store. Price should be about $.40 per lb and up depending on quantity purchased.

There are a lot of threads here on starting a mouse colony that should provide more help.

 

[hartsock]

Thank you both for responding so quickly...I am considering to keeping them in the house after all. What I was really hesitant about was when I did that experiment way back in high school, it was a mess with 6 or 7 aquariums, stunk, constantly pulling out the dead mice who didn't know enough not to stick their heads into the wheel while 5 others were running on it...; but when I stopped and really thought about it, if I am culling them at the stages I need, a colony isn't going to be like that. I can keep it basically to the size I want it to be. So I think once I get somethings situated here I am going to take the plunge and start one. I have been reading and learning alot from these threads and really appreciate those who are a part of these boards.

 

[snakemom1961]

I just froze my first batch of fuzzies. Their a little larger then I need right now, but know with in a month or 2 they will be perfect. This was my first litter and wasn't sure how long to keep them before freezing them. Next litter I'll freeze 2 days earlier. My only problem is I'm deathly afraid of mice and am not sure what I'm going to do when it comes time to have to freeze hoppers and above. Since I know by the time the critters are that age my daughters will NOT be able to CO2 THEM for me...LOL

 

[Flagg]

I tried a cheap wire wheel, as it was the only size that would fit in the lab cage I'm using. The dumb hoppers would kill themselves on it so the wheel is gone.
If you have room for it, a solid plastic wheel will work fine and they won't be able to suicide on it.

I find the best way to get them at the right size is to use a gram scale and weigh them daily when they are close to the size I need. Once out of the CO2 chamber they get vacuum sealed and labelled by weight before going in the freezer so it's easy to find just the right size for my snakes.

 

[snakemom1961]

I tried a cheap wire wheel, as it was the only size that would fit in the lab cage I'm using. The dumb hoppers would kill themselves on it so the wheel is gone.
If you have room for it, a solid plastic wheel will work fine and they won't be able to suicide on it.

I find the best way to get them at the right size is to use a gram scale and weigh them daily when they are close to the size I need. Once out of the CO2 chamber they get vacuum sealed and labelled by weight before going in the freezer so it's easy to find just the right size for my snakes.

Yes, but now the heck am I going to go the CO2 chamber when I can't even bring myself to pick up fuzzies, let alone bigger mice!............lol