"New" Tradenames

[FunkyRes]

I think there is definitely some silliness going on.
Either they take or they don't. If they take, I'll use them. If they don't, I won't.

I've decided that if they make the CMG I'll use them, if they aren't in CMG - then I probably won't unless it is really obvious they have market acceptance.

For example - there has been an attempt to name the hypo lavender, I forget what - but some breeders are using it. Not very many though - every time I see one advertised, it's advertised as hypo lav - hypo lav is the current accepted trade name.

I do think there needs to be a distinction made between reverse okeetee and amel okeetee - reverse okeetee seems to mean a selectively bred amel with a lot of white, and most that I see would not be Okeetee phase if they were not amel. That can't be changed, so for myself, if I believe it would qualify as okeetee if it wasn't homo amel, I'll call it amel okeetee just to distinguish it from reverse okeetee.

With hybrids the trade names can get real crazy - it's a "super corn" if it is 3/4 corn 1/4 cal king and a "jungle" if it is 1/2 corn 1/2 cal king. Say what? Any corn/cal king hybrids I ever deal with (if I do) will just be called jungle regardless of the lineage ratio.

 

[FunkyRes]

I really don't mind people naming their morphs, and if they stick, so be it. I believe Chuck named the Orchid, and well, he writes the book, lol

Orchid isn't in the 2008 book - to Chuck's credit, I believe he only includes names he came up with if they really have been accepted by the market.

 

[Toshiro]

I agree with the statement of KJUN.

EVERYONE: Use whatever name you want - just don't expect that others have to, too. ...and be prepared to list the individual genes that make it up for the 90+% of cornsnake buyers that don't care what the morph is called as long as it (1) has the look they like and/or (2) has the genetics they want.

The breeder of my Anery A calls them Missing Red
and calls Amels: Missing Black.

Tradenames can be fun, but the problem is not everybody can/will use the same names.

Personally I like the name Sulfur

 

[FunkyRes]

Yeah - people will call them what they want.
That's pretty much why I want to use the CMG as an authority - at least then there is a reference that a lot of people (though not everyone, possibly even me in some cases) agree with.

I do think though that whenever advertising any combo morph, the full genotype should be specified.

IE - blizzard (amel + charcoal)

Especially since the terms mean different things in different species - IE with Cal Kings, blizzard means amel + hypermelanistic

But people will do what people want to do.

 

[KJUN]

Yeah - people will call them what they want.
That's pretty much why I want to use the CMG as an authority - at least then there is a reference that a lot of people (though not everyone, possibly even me in some cases) agree with.

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to use any self-published pamphlet by someone that insults this board AND THE MEMBERS OF THIS BOARD as an authority - especially when it was written by someone who takes credit for "discovering" that bloodred is a pattern mutation 10 years after it was known to everyone but him!

 

[El Jefe]

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to use any self-published pamphlet by someone that insults this board AND THE MEMBERS OF THIS BOARD as an authority - especially when it was written by someone who takes credit for "discovering" that bloodred is a pattern mutation 10 years after it was known to everyone but him!

He said, she said...

Where did you get YOUR story about the bloodred pattern mutation and his naming it?

Here is Chuck's (guy who publishes the Cornsnake Morph Guide) side of the story which was posted on the other site.

The real story of the name Diffused
There are plenty of legends out there claiming diffused was named by me. They were made up by people who never had any knowledge of what transpired and just invented a story that matches what they think might have happened. So to clear it up, here's how it happened.

In 2002 a few of us (Connie Hurley, Kat Hall, a guy named Curtis, and myself) got together with the idea of producing an "official standard" for corn morphs, because nobody seemed to be able to agree on things like what made an Okeetee or candycane. It was not our intention to tell the big names how to define their morphs, but the opposite: it was our goal to produce a standard that reflected what they all already used themselves, so that they would voice their support for it. The idea being that then it could be referred to by everyone as the official standard of morphs as supported by all the big names.

The effort ran into a roadblock when trying to decide what to do with "bloodred." The problems were that not all snakes called "bloodred" were of the same appearance, and there was obviously a simple pattern gene which could be separated from the "bloodred" appearance, and it didn't make much sense to refer to a normal-looking snake with an uncheckered belly as a "bloodred" and the gene as "bloodred" and the combination of the gene plus extreme redness as "bloodred."

The committee eventually petered out. But this topic generated discussions on the forums that kept on going. Many more people, as a result of those discussions, began to openly treat the underlying gene as a completely separate thing. They also began to see the problems with the name bloodred being applied to each and every aspect of all variations and components.

Finally in 2004 Darren Chappell emailed Kathy Love. He asked her to suggest a name for the pattern gene in her new book that she was working on and made a great case for it. Kathy asked Connie and myself what we thought of this. We told her that we agreed with the idea, and promised to support them 100% with whatever alternative they wanted to suggest for the pattern gene, if that's what they decided to do. The name "diffused" or "diffusion" was chosen by Bill & Kathy Love, and we knew it would appear in their upcoming book.

The original 2004 Cornsnake Morph Guide (titled The Buyer's Guide to Cornsnake Morphs) was written according to that new terminology (as promised) in support of Bill & Kathy's decision to go with diffused. It did hit the market before Kathy's Comprehensive Owner's Guide but it was written as a result of their decision.

So now you know how it actually happened. (Boring story isn't it? No wonder the legends keep being told.) The latest incarnations of the "serp renamed bloodreds to diffused" stories are probably more dramatic and involve me using my legendary superhuman powers to control all morph names, but they certainly aren't true.

 

[Drizzt80]

He said, she said...

Where did you get YOUR story about the bloodred pattern mutation and his naming it?

Here is Chuck's (guy who publishes the Cornsnake Morph Guide) side of the story which was posted on the other site.

Here's the REAL story as it played out on CS.com not so long ago. Doesn't seem to fit nice and neat into Charlie's painted picture. :shrugs: Memories fade and are remembered differently I guess . . . or maybe just remembered conveniently . . .

D80

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11014

 

[El Jefe]

Brent,

Thanks for that post! I was looking for it as I knew there was a discussion somewhere! True, Chuck's post on the other site is a nice summary but he does mention that he took his info from someone else...

See post: http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showpost.php?p=70325&postcount=25

I'm actually following someone else's lead, but my book is coming out before that "lead" will be seen by everyone. I'm positive that I will take some heat for it, but someone had to grab the bull by the horns and see if they get stabbed, so why not me.

on CS.com not so long ago.

It was a little while ago... Weird to see some of those members that used to be here all the time and now are nowhere to be found...not even on the 'other' site.

 

[Drizzt80]

but he does mention that he took his info from someone else...

. . . and that "someone else" posts several times, later in the thread, and doesn't corroborate that statement . . . and therein lies the difference in stories.

We can dissect the thread itself, but taken as a whole I don't think it fits quite as nice and neat into charlie's depiction of history. He argued quite vehemently for the term diffused. Sorry, but not too many people take that bull by the horns unless it's their own baby. :shrugs:

D80

 

[FunkyRes]

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to use any self-published pamphlet by someone that insults this board AND THE MEMBERS OF THIS BOARD as an authority - especially when it was written by someone who takes credit for "discovering" that bloodred is a pattern mutation 10 years after it was known to everyone but him!

That's fine. I wasn't into corn snakes when that transpired so I'm not qualified to take any sides. The CMG is self published, but enough people use it that it makes a good baseline for me, I don't know of any other published (self or otherwise) naming convention for the various morphs.

 

[ruggerboi]

I agree. I hate the trade name of Plasma. Ugh. I'd much rather call them Lav-bloods. Surely someone could could come up with something better than Plasma. :awcrap:

I mean, it just reminds me of people who go to the blood bank to donate plasma (which is no where near being the same color as a lavender bloodred corn snake). I just don't get it.

Most of the other trade names at least fit the description of the snake a bit.

I think it might have been meant to refer to the physical state of matter known as a plasma, where all the particles just kind of explode and become super energized. The sun is a big ball of plasma. Thinking about it like that makes it fit a little better. I actually really like the trade name plasma. Makes me think of glowing hot clouds of energized gas. :crazy01:

 

[ruggerboi]

I just realized that I didn't word that very well. A plasma (the snake) doesn't glow like the sun, but it does have some color glowing through the pattern, like the snake is filled with the glowy stuff. Thinking about blood plasma is kinda gross, but I guess my thought process doesn't make any more sense.

 

[abell82]

Weird to see some of those members that used to be here all the time and now are nowhere to be found...not even on the 'other' site.

I don't know if I'd call it weird, so much as a waste! To loose the input, of such great people as Clint, Darin, and some of the others that helped start this forum, is a real shame.
As for Charles P., Serpwidgets sometimes may have been an arrogant @$$, but then who isn't? And he could not have been a jerk, if the people of this forum had not ALLOWED him to be such.
There seems to come a point when people get a following on this forum, and after that they can do no wrong. Even when their followers (groupies) know they are wrong. This is probably why so few new members last.

This is my .02¢, I'm sure others will have thier own opinion on the subject.