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Newbie question...

Arson

Arson

NEEDS MORE COWBELL!
Hello everyone. I'm new to the hobby and have not yet acquired my first cornsnake. I take keeping animals very seriously. I've kept tropical fish for about 7 years and decided to move on to another hobby since I no longer have the room to keep the species that I'd like to.

So, I decided keeping a snake was a unique animal and I wanted to give it a try. As in my nature, I've researched TONS of information about cornsnakes and am nearly done with the C.S. manual. I'm nearing purchasing my first corn, but first I wanted to ask this: Are certain cultivars more hardy than others? I want my first snake to be a bit of a teaching tool and a morph that requires the least bit of special attention or is the least susceptible to diseases, etc. I thought normals or Okeetees seemed the natural choice since they're not nearly as far down the genetic line as some of the other, more confusing names.

Thanks in advance for your help.
 
from what I've read and my personal experiences (which really count for not much) I'd say that no morph is better or worse than any other...

The only thing to be congnisant of is whether you (accidently) kill a $15 normal or a $150 hypo stripe as a first timer.

Fortunately there are some gorgious and rather inexpensive morphs out there (see KL's Okeetee's).

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that you probably will be perfectly fine with whatever morph you get mainly because you are well read and present your interest as genuine.

Since you seem to be so patient (which is awesome because I'm not), the next logical step would be to buy housing and full setup and get it going according to the husbandry guidelines in T.C.S.M. Take a week or two and watch temp guages on both warm and cool side of the tank and make sure you're house isn't too hot or cold or the sun beats down on the cage, etc.

Your preparation is impressive and is likely to assure you endless years of herping obsessions.
 
WELCOME TO THE FORUM!!!

I want to say that I admire the fact that you are doing your research first. If everyone would do that, this hobby would be MUCH stronger and more enjoyable (if that's possible)!

I also want to contradict Homer a bit (sorry Homer ;)) There are a few morphs which seem to prefer one food over another. For example, a lot of Miami's prefer lizards. The best thing to do is simply make sure that the snake you decide on is already well established on mice.

Good luck, and be sure to post pictures of whatever snake you choose!
 
no prob, as I said I don't really consider myself an authority on much compared to the "seniors" around here. I've been keeping for 5 years now and only have 12 in my collection.

I just like to give whatever advice I can when I can in the hopes that it helps others.

ANYWAY, Corncrazy is right, I forgot about the whole lizard thing. But to contradict him (lol, sorry), I had two normal hatchlings last summer out of two clutches of 28 total that only accepted lizards.

It's like CornCrazy said, just make sure you get established eaters and it's a non-issue.

NOW, who wants to give the "buy from reputible" lecture?

Quick and Dirty: Your first time out, bite the bullet, save your pennies and go with the slightly more expensive (although not always) big breeders around here vs. reptile shows or crappy local know-nothing pet stores. Only by going through one of our "trusted" (you know who you are :) ) can you be sure you're actually getting an established eater...

I purchased a "great eater" beautiful normal Motely from some A-hole at a show near Pittsburgh and it never accepted food once. I was able to force-feed it and keep it alive for 5 months before it kicked off. Lesson learned...
 
Of course, there's those of us who fortunately got lucky and purchased from the shows and got great eaters. A lot of the breeders go to shows, so you might get lucky anyway. The prices are certainly good! I bought my other one from a local breeder, and she's a good eater too. The nice thing about going with well-known breeders like Kathy, or Rich is that you get those guaranteed eaters and know that's what you'll get.
 
Thank you very much for your input. Yes, I put a great deal of thought into this. I don't expect keeping cornsnakes to be without its fair share of problems, but that doesn't mean I can't minimize them beforehand!

I had definitely planned to set up the tank ahead of time to help gauge temperature tendencies, etc. I have a loft that receives alot of indirect sunlight (i.e. the sun hits the white blinds and sends bright ambient light throughout the whole room) that I planned to set up an aquarium with. I know that many people keep corns in the plastic Sterilite or Rubbermaid containers which are VERY easy for me to find, but I have several large aquariums I'm not using due to keeping fish for so long that I thought would do well. I have a 35 gallon long aquarium that seems to be good for keeping a corn. I am looking into having small holes drilled into the sides for ventilation. I know there is often some hot debate about aquariums vs. plastic. One of the biggest issues seems to be ventilation. I figured I could solve that with the drilling.

As far as purchasing...since I had some very pleasant email correspondance with Kathy Love (made me feel all warm and fuzzy inside) I figured I'd just buy one from her. I may or may not be attending a reptile show in Raleigh that she will be attending. If not, I will just order one from her website. I assume she falls into the "trusted" category.

I think that about covers everything. :)
 
Well, I definitely don't think you can go wrong if you buy from Kathy! I will add that there are also many small breeders that are reputable, as well. Personally, I would probably go with buying from one of the big breeders first. It's better to minimize your chances of being burned (just in case...). If you were to decide to buy from a small breeder, then be sure to check the person out on the BOI first. I believe you have to be a registered member to access the BOI. It is a great tool for finding out if the person you are considering dealing with is reputable.

Homer is right in that it is only a small percent of the corn population that prefers lizards or other foods, but it is still something to consider. (By the way, Homer, I am a she):p

Forgive me if I rambled. It is quite late here.
 
CornCrazy said:


Homer is right in that it is only a small percent of the corn population that prefers lizards or other foods, but it is still something to consider. (By the way, Homer, I am a she):p
Click to expand...

lol sorry my bad... :cheers:

Drilling holes in your beautiful glass aquariums is totally unnecessary (IMO- help me out here corncrazy), and the holes would need to be extremely tiny to prevent any escape problems.

I think the real issue, more important than the ventilation, is how you plan on capping these fish aquariums. It requires precise engineering to construct a top for a fish aquarium that will hold snakes, they are escape professionals and WILL expose design flaws, cracks, holes, and seams you never thought existed.

I'm a glass lover but unfortunately I've gone with the all-glass reptile line with sliding tops- never an escape. The few times I used plastic to house neonates were the only escapes I ever had.

I hope Kathy stays in the hobby long enough for me to graduate and start earning the big bucks, I definitely want to expand my collection somday.

Good luck!
 
I have the lids that slide on too. They secure really well with the pins. Kathy has some really beautiful snakes. I'm sure you'll get a good one from her no matter what you get. I think you'll find on the whole, that Corn's are a lot easier to care for than your fish were. They are docile (most of them anyway), don't need to be fed everyday, and just about the coolest thing since ice cream! You'll be hooked in no time.
 
I agree that holes do not need to be drilled into the glass. It is very important to construct a lid that is escape proof. Homer is right...snakes will expose any design flaw and WILL definitely escape if possible! Just be sure to get (or construct) a lid that has screening on it in order to provide adequate ventilation.

It's OK, Homer, no offense was taken. Since my name is Terri, lots of people mistake me for a guy. They especially do it if they hear my middle name too (it's Lee).:rolleyes:
 
I've seen the locking pin screen tops for aquariums before. They come in all different sizes. Aren't those sufficient? As far as the drilling...I have 19 fish aquariums ranging from 3 gallons to 92 gallons. I think I can spare one the holes. :) I understand the holes would have to be about the diameter of a pencil.
 
If you get a hatchling, you should make the holes even smaller. If they can get their head through, then the rest will follow!
 
You certainly won't need to go through the trouble of drilling holes through the glass if you have a screened lid.

You could get a screen lid at most pet stores for common sized tanks. (prefferably 20g for a corn)

Also make sure to get those little clamp things to hold down the lid.
 
I thought I read somewhere that one of the big pitfalls to the glass aquariums was the trouble with ventilation in the top only. It promotes evaporation and has some issues with the thermocline ( I think that was it). One of the big arguments for plastics was the ability to have holes in the side versus the top. Wouldn't it be to my advantage to have them in both places?
 
I can testify that having a screen lid on an aquarium will be totally adequate for ventilation. Actually, the moisture evaporates so quickly that I have to provide my snakes with a moist hide box 24/7. One good thing about this is that since moisture evaporates so quickly, the odor from their poo is diminished. The two snakes that I have in sterilite containers reek because the moisture is contained in the box until I clean it.

The problem that aquariums present regarding ventilation is when a solid top is used. Then there isn't enough airflow. I've never worked with glass, but I'd think that drilling holes would be hard to do without cracking the glass. Also, you would want the holes to be super smooth. Snakes can and will find those holes and try to get out of them and may rub their noses raw doing so. For reference, the holes on my sterilite tubs are ~1/8 of an inch.
 
I can speak for drilling holes in aquariums. I've had to do it several times for the plumbing in many of my larger aquariums. It takes a special tool, but it's done all the time. Also, wire pads can file down the glass to make the edges smooth much like on the corners of the aquarium to make it safe for the snake. If you say, however, that a mesh screen top is sufficient then I may go with that. My apartment is air conditioned most of the day, so this will probably further promote evaporation. Does anyone have any tips for keeping the inside moist without hindering ventilation?

Thanks.
 
You don't want it too moist in there anyway. I am usually concerned with humidity before a shed, and so I mist the tank frequently with a water bottle, and I also place a moist hide in there for them. Otherwise, I usually don't add humidity. I think some people mist the tank daily though.
 
It's great to see somebody do so much homework before getting their first snake - wish everyone would do that!

If you have a screen top, I wouldn't worry about other venitlation. As noted, escapes are the biggest concern. I have seen some screw type lid closers that actually pushed the lid away from the aquarium a little - maybe enough for a baby to escape. Just be more careful than you think you really have to be about escapes, and then you should be safe.

Thermoclines are fine - the more microclimates the better! Take temp readings at various places around the cage that the snake will have access to through branches or whatever. The more choices he has, the better. If you see he is always on the cold side or the warm side of the cage, then try to provide more extreme hot or cool temps on the side he prefers. Ideally, he should be moving back and forth to regulate his body temp somewhat like he would do in the wild.

If he doesn't shed in one piece, then give him a shed box when his eyes go blue (like the nest box in my book, but smaller). Other than that, don't try to add much humidity unless you live in the desert and your house is bone dry. Single piece or shredded shedding is your guide to whether it is a little too dry. But too much dampness is even worse.

As for morphs, the family bloodlines are more important than the morph as far as health and personality is concerned. Any serious breeder should be able to tell you the most likely characteristics of any particular bloodline that he or she has been working with for several generations, just as a dog or cat breeder could do the same. That doesn't mean EVERY baby will conform, but should help in predictions of percentages of babies in terms of feeding, adult size, personality, hardiness, etc.

Good luck!
 
Wow Kathy!! It's so cool to have you on this site! I have an Aztec Okeetee that came out of one of your Okeetee's you sold to a local breeder. They have phenominal color, and so does my Aztec!! Thanks second-hand.
 
I agree It is awsome to have you on this site.
I'm a newbie at herps and I got a corn about... a week ago she has shed 1 once, fed 2 times and is the most gorgeous(in my own oppinion) little girl in the world. If it wasn't so late I'd take a pick to show you but I'll do it tommorow or something she is just now getting active and i dont want to scare her. She's only been here a week. So I'll take a pic and post it when I can.

Mots
 
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