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Newbie Questions

Airborne

New member
New to this. My 9 year old son bought two juvenile corns. They are close to size about 12" and 14". We have them together in a 20 gallon long. We have had the first one for about three weeks and the second one we bought on Monday. They are eating pinkies from a local shop.
Questions: How do you check their weight on scales? When do you feed them more than one or a larger size? Is live healthier than frozen? Can they be housed together?

Thanks in advance.
 
1) Get a basic gram scale, weigh the snake when it's calm.
2) here is a good feeding chart, that based off of the weight should answer all your questions. http://www.bhbreptiles.com/main.aspx?Page=feedchart
3) no, live isn't healthier, and it is potentially dangerous to your snake. Mice fight back.
4) they CAN be housed together, but it isn't ideal.
 
Snakes really shouldn't be housed together! For a few reasons;
1.) if one snake gets sick it is VERY likely the other will become sick as well. It could also happen if they were in separate tanks, if you held the sick one (without knowing it was sick) and then immediately held the other. Or held them together. But it's almost a guarantee that both snakes will become sick when housed together. Then you'll wind up with double the vet bills or two dead snakes.
2.) if you notice sickly looking poops in the tank, indicating that one snake has become sick, you won't know which snake it came from.
3.) snakes, and other reptiles, do not have a part in their brain that creates emotional attachments. They don't see each other as friends or company. They just see each other as competition. So there is absolutely NO reason to keep snakes together, other than the fact that you like how it looks, you don't have the space or money for two separate enclosures and supplies, or YOU just want your snakes to have a "friend". (or you are trying to breed them but that's obviously not the case and a whole other story)
4.) the biggest concern with having two snakes together is CANNIBALISM. Especially with colubrids who are very opportunistic feeders and aren't afraid to try new foods... You could be feeding your snakes and one decides it's still hungry... It won't hesitate to attempt to eat the other. If one snake is bigger it would be most likely to eat the other, but I've also seen smaller snakes attempt to eat their bigger tank-mate. In both occasions, both snakes can die. And it would happen so fast that even if you were watching them 24/7 and never moved or took your eyes off of them, one snake could still grab the other faster than you could react.
5.) adult corn snakes need a 20-40 gallon tank all to themselves. So when both snakes become full grown you'll need AT LEAST a 40 gallon tank, but more like an 80+ gallon.
6.) if the snakes end up being opposite genders, and are still together when they reach sexual maturity, the male will continuously mate with the female until one or both die. I have seen this happen once, with a ball python. The act of continuously breeding used all the males energy (and I believe he was refusing to eat as well) Until he was stick thin and eventually died.

I will say, some people have kept their corns together for YEARS, even the snakes whole lives, without anything bad happening. Those people are very lucky. But in a split second things could go wrong. So I would really consider whether you want to take the risk....


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Congrats on your snakes. If you need guidance on setting up a second enclosure for your second snake we are here to help. Best wishes.
 
Congrats on your new additions! Also, take some time to read through the forum. There are many 'stickies' at the beginning of most topics that contain important info. There is also a FAQ section you can see at the top of the page. Might be a good idea for your son to read some as well! Have fun with your little ones!
 
Welcome to the forum and to keeping Cornsnakes!

I agree that while cohabbing can be done, it is not recommended, especially with people new to keeping them, and do not know how to recognize stress in one/both of the animals.

Baby Cornsnakes have a higher propensity to be cannibalistic. There have been cases where someone bought two babies from an expo, put them in a deli together, just to go home, and in transit, one baby ate the other, and both snakes died.

I picked up a digital scale on Amazon, for pretty cheap.

I use a modified version of the Munson Plan for deeding. It is a general guide to help you know when to move up in prey size.
Here is what I use:

Snake wght freq. prey size prey wght
4-15gr 5-6days pinks 2-3gr
16-23gr 5-6days dbl. pinks 3gr X2
24-30gr 6-7days sm fuzzy 5-7gr
30-50gr 6-7days fuzzy 7-9gr
51-90gr 6-7days hopper 9-12gr
91-170gr 7days weanling 14-20gr
170-400gr *7days adult 20-30gr
401+ *7days xl adult 30-50gr

I calculated it out, and it is roughly .2% of the snake's weight.

Live is not healthier than frozed/thawed. It poses risks to your snake (when they get to the older prey size that can fight back).
 
Thanks

I appreciate your support and kind words and most important your wisdom. I will house them separately.

I will get a scale and weigh and feed accordingly. The local store states that it is healthier to feed live, but if that presents a problem then buy live, take them home and place them in a freezer then fully thaw at our discretion.

They said that when you buy frozen, you do not know anything about the species. In other words parasites....etc. Or how long they have been frozen for.

So we walked away with two live pinkies and confusion. That is the reason behind my posting.

So is this method correct? Do most people buy live then take them home and freeze them? Or do you run risks not knowing anything about the frozen specimens that you buy?

I don't want to be a bother and I am not lazy but sometimes the threads get side tracked and I find myself reading until 2:00 am.

Thanks for the help!
 
I calculated it out, and it is roughly .2% of the snake's weight.

I think you mean ~20% ;) And that's only for the first 50g or so, then slowly drops to around 15% by 100g, ~10% by 250, and so on. A 500g+ snake should eat no more than about 5% of its body weight per week in normal circumstances (excluding post-breeding/post-brumation).

Sounds like the store you visited is somewhat misinformed about the nutritional value of frozen food vs. live. Meat does spoil in the freezer, but it takes a very, very long time. Most meat for human consumption will freezer burn long before it spoils, which alters the taste and texture of the cooked product. This is not a concern for a raw feeder, so we can store frozen rodents for up to a year or possibly more without any ill effects, even longer in some commercial freezers that stay at lower temperatures than the one in your kitchen.

Buying from a well-known supplier like Rodent Pro and Layne Labs minimizes risks, which is what most folks typically do.
 
I feed mine that are in the 500 gram range XL Adult mice, which would be about 10% of their body weight. Adult females get fed every 7-10 days, adult males generally get fed every 2-3 weeks.

I see you're in CA, I would go with Layne Labs for frozen mice supply. The shipping will be the cheapest, and they have great quality rodents (as well as other feeder prey).

It sounds like the store is just trying to get you to buy theirs. Do they not offer frozen mice?

You can freeze pinkies to euthanize them, because they have no fur, and die very quickly due to the cold temp.

If you know of any other local people with snakes, you can go in together on an order from Layne Labs, and save that way as well.
 
Also, freezing kills any harmful parasites and bacteria on mice so you don't need to 'know' anything about the mice (except to make sure they're from a reliable source) and besides, buying live mice doesn't protect against bacteria and parasites anyway [emoji4]


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Actually, your friendly pet store is more likely to sell you a bad food item than if you got it elsewhere. There are several companies that sell food items for reptiles. You can Google it easily. I use Perfect Prey myself. But like I said, there are others.
 
Live mice are healthier, but can fight back, so if you decide to feed any live mice, don't leave your snakes unattended with them and make sure the mouse isn't still alive when being swallowed. Also, take the mouse out if it is uneaten. This isn't a problem with very young mice. You probably shouldn't keep the snakes together because they could breed if they are opposite genders. As for size of food, if the snake doesn't construct the food item, it is too small. Welcome to the forum! I am pretty new as well.
 
Newbie

Thanks for the input. I'm trying to wait until the Annual Reptile Expo to buy another Corn baby. But it's difficult. I want to buy a very colorful or Black Corn Snake. I have been checking sites but think maybe I need to wait so I do not have regret by being impatient.

Do the shows have better color selections?

Thanks.
 
Thanks for the input. I'm trying to wait until the Annual Reptile Expo to buy another Corn baby. But it's difficult. I want to buy a very colorful or Black Corn Snake. I have been checking sites but think maybe I need to wait so I do not have regret by being impatient.



Do the shows have better color selections?



Thanks.


Oh heck yeah! Reptile shows will usually have a much wider selection than pet stores. One of the big chain pet stores (P.etco) a couple hours from me purposely orders a wide selection of corn snake morphs, but the one closest to me only ever has regular corn snakes. I would definitely wait until the show!


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Welcome to the form and to your new scalebabies :)
Personally I feed my girl live, she is 4 years old and a little over 4 feet long. The reason I feed her live is I bought her 3 weeks ago and the person who sold her to me only fed her live.

She is an amazing striker and hits perfect each time, what I do is hold the mouse by tongs and she goes for it, once I see she has it well and coiled I let go of the mouse. This way I am certain she will not get hurt.

I have started to try to get her on F/T but so far she wants nothing to do with thawed mice :( I will keep trying though :)
 
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