Other North American Snakes

[jaxom1957]

Would it be possible to start a forum dealing with all other North American snakes? Many corn snake hobbyists also keep other North American snakes, whether they be rat snakes, king snakes, gopher snakes or milk snakes. The other widely known websites, IMO, either suffer from too many scammers and con men or have grown a culture of members that care less about the animals being discussed than they do about playing word and mind games. Cornsnakes.com has proven to be a welcoming, informative and friendly arena, one where novice or professional can participate without fearing their posts will be taken out of context and skewed to create strawman arguments.

I recently purchased a pair of king snakes. I was lucky enough to have friends here who offered excellent advice on what to look for and what to avoid. I tried researching them on Fauna Classifieds and Kingsnake.com, but found very little that was helpful. I would have appreciated being able to ask my questions here, or to have a forum already in existence on CS.COM where I could read and research other commonly kept North American snakes. The name of the site is obviously specific to one species, but does that preclude expanding our discussions to other related animals that the same people who keep corn snakes keep as well? The line has to be drawn somewhere, I realize, lest this devolve into a free-for-all of discussions about anything possibly related to any insect or animal ever kept in any person's in history home. Is that too slippery a slope to risk?

I'd appreciate feedback from other members, and most especially from the site administrator, forum owners and moderators.

 

[Joejr14]

What's wrong with posting those questions/pictures/discussions in the general chit chat area?

 

[Roy Munson]

I have mixed feelings about this. I admit that General Chit-Chat may be a little too general, but it's served me pretty well. I've always thought that it might be cool to have a single "Non-Corn Animals" forum. This would separate the "Look at my Kingsnake" threads from the "I Got a New Job" threads. But then again, it would be nice to separate the "Look at my Kitty" threads from the "My Ball Python's not Eating" threads. And then again, it might be nice not to have to filter through the "Look at my Leopard Gecko" threads among the "Freshly-Shed Bairdi" threads. :shrugs:

 

[tricksterpup]

Would it be possible to start a forum dealing with all other North American snakes? Many corn snake hobbyists also keep other North American snakes, whether they be rat snakes, king snakes, gopher snakes or milk snakes.

What no love for Rosy and Rubber Boas?? For shame.

 

[tricksterpup]

Actually, I kinda agree with Dean it would be nice but I am sure we will get tons of leopard gecko threads in there as well. But to me that isn't a huge problem. I would never complain. I think it might be nice to see a subforum below General chit chat.

 

[jaxom1957]

I have mixed feelings about this. I admit that General Chit-Chat may be a little too general, but it's served me pretty well. I've always thought that it might be cool to have a single "Non-Corn Animals" forum. This would separate the "Look at my Kingsnake" threads from the "I Got a New Job" threads. But then again, it would be nice to separate the "Look at my Kitty" threads from the "My Ball Python's not Eating" threads. And then again, it might be nice not to have to filter through the "Look at my Leopard Gecko" threads among the "Freshly-Shed Bairdi" threads. :shrugs:

As you noted, General Chit-Chat can be too, well... general I use it for "Happy Birthday" and "Famous Cobra Tamer Dies of Spider Bite" threads. The husbandry of other snakes is both more specific and more in depth. I don't need to know how old you turned to wave Happy BDay as I go by, or whether the cobra tamer left a will to skim by the posts. But if I want to know the relative difficulties of breeding Cali kings as opposed to greyband kings, that requires an actual discussion, the dissemination of facts, the sharing of experiences.

It's also more likely that someone reading the "North American Snakes" threads will share an interest in your axanthic Florida hatchling than someone looking over the General Chit-Chat, "My Kitty Is Soooooo Cute" threads.

By limiting it to North American snakes, it draws an objective line between what are appropriate threads and what are not.

Baird's ratsnake? Check.
Ball Python? Keep it moving people, nothing to see here.
Sonoran gopher snake? Got pictures?
"I'm sorry, Ma'am, but you can't bring Fluffy into this establishment."

 

[jaxom1957]

What no love for Rosy and Rubber Boas?? For shame.

Those jumbo nightcrawlers? Excellent bait for sturgeon, stay on the hook real nice like. :grin01:

 

[Roy Munson]

As you noted, General Chit-Chat can be too, well... general I use it for "Happy Birthday" and "Famous Cobra Tamer Dies of Spider Bite" threads. The husbandry of other snakes is both more specific and more in depth. I don't need to know how old you turned to wave Happy BDay as I go by, or whether the cobra tamer left a will to skim by the posts. But if I want to know the relative difficulties of breeding Cali kings as opposed to greyband kings, that requires an actual discussion, the dissemination of facts, the sharing of experiences.

It's also more likely that someone reading the "North American Snakes" threads will share an interest in your axanthic Florida hatchling than someone looking over the General Chit-Chat, "My Kitty Is Soooooo Cute" threads.

By limiting it to North American snakes, it draws an objective line between what are appropriate threads and what are not.

Baird's ratsnake? Check.
Ball Python? Keep it moving people, nothing to see here.
Sonoran gopher snake? Got pictures?
"I'm sorry, Ma'am, but you can't bring Fluffy into this establishment."

Well, my own personal biases and prejudices prompt me to like the "NA Snakes" idea. But a BP guy might ask why he has to share a forum with Fluffy when there may be as many BP people here as owners of non-corn NA snakes. My biased self may try to rationalize this arrangement and opine to the BP guy that this site is dedicated to a species of NA snake, so NA snakes should have greater emphasis here. But I don't know if BP guy is going to like that opinion. But at least I'd still be able to post my Nicaraguan boa constrictor in the NA Snakes forum. But the guy with the Columbian would have to go hang out with Fluffy. :grin01:

Those jumbo nightcrawlers? Excellent bait for sturgeon, stay on the hook real nice like. :grin01:

That ain't right. :nope: Just look at him:

 

[desertanimal]

To me this issue is kind of a question of how you like your files organized. Kristi recently went through ours, and I had a file of "Stephanie's important papers" that I had before we met and she took over filing. It made perfect sense to me. That was where I'd store my diploma, my motorcycle title, my college loan papers, and that would have been where I'd have put our will. But that organizational scheme does not work for Kristi. I don't actually know where all that stuff went, but I know for sure it went into more than one file.

To me, it seems that there are already enough sub-fora on this page, but I keep big files in the filing cabinet. And, I just always look at the new posts, and I find that the people who post something informative in the gen. disc. section usually title their thread in a detailed enough manner that I know I want to read it.

Now, I don't think it would be a problem to start some other sub-fora, but I don't really see the point in drawing the line at N. Am Snakes. That seems wayyyyy too narrow, because really, it seems like just as many people here have corns and BPs as have corns and kings, but also because many of the "foreign" colubrids have similar care requirements, so they wouldn't belong in an "other" subforum with Amazon tree boas any more than they would belong in an "other" subforum with poison dart frogs. And, many people don't have anything but corns, but would be equally interested in BPs and kings. If you really wanted other subfora, I think "non-corn snakes," "lizards," "chelonia," and "amphibians" would do well enough.

 

[Roy Munson]

If you really wanted other subfora, I think "non-corn snakes," "lizards," "chelonia," and "amphibians" would do well enough.

Oh great, so I'd still have to post pics of my tuatara collection with Fluffy?

 

[jaxom1957]

Well, my own personal biases and prejudices prompt me to like the "NA Snakes" idea. But a BP guy might ask why he has to share a forum with Fluffy when there may be as many BP people here as owners of non-corn NA snakes. My biased self may try to rationalize this arrangement and opine to the BP guy that this site is dedicated to a species of NA snake, so NA snakes should have greater emphasis here. But I don't know if BP guy is going to like that opinion. But at least I'd still be able to post my Nicaraguan boa constrictor in the NA Snakes forum. But the guy with the Columbian would have to go hang out with Fluffy.

I think you were right in pointing out that this is a site about one NA snake. Expanding it to include other NA snakes is not a giant leap. We don't even have to expand it that far. How about limiting it to species that have successfully bred with corn snakes, "successfully" being defined as, "Producing viable and fertile offspring"? I mean that facetiously, but only just. The other snakes I mentioned (milk, gopher, rat and king) share so much with corn snakes that the species can interbreed. The overlap in the makeup and husbandry needs of these NA species is a great part of why corn snake owners keep them as well. "Closely Related Species" would also be a fine title for the forum.

 

[desertanimal]

Oh great, so I'd still have to post pics of my tuatara collection with Fluffy?

No, no. Of course not. That was actually an oversight. We'd also need a subforum for land-dwelling arthropods.

But to stick to the rules of all these categories, and especially since we have so many boid fans here, you should really be posting pictures of Vader from now on in the "Feeders" forum. :grin01:

Just kidding. Don't overthink it because then it changes from funny to awful. I already overthought it. I'm not tough enough for my own jokes!

 

[jaxom1957]

If you really wanted other subfora, I think "non-corn snakes," "lizards," "chelonia," and "amphibians" would do well enough.

Adding that many categories, covering such a wide array of topics, is a step of much greater magnitude than just snakes closely related to corn snakes. Doing so would obfuscate the identity of the site. A site covering all those creatures would be a valuable resource, but it wouldn't be cornsnakes.com. Expanding it to include the snakes I listed wouldn't change the essential nature of the site.

 

[tricksterpup]

Oh great, so I'd still have to post pics of my tuatara collection with Fluffy?

No, there is no room for any three eyed freaks.

 

[desertanimal]

Adding that many categories, covering such a wide array of topics, is a step of much greater magnitude than just snakes closely related to corn snakes. Doing so would obfuscate the identity of the site. A site covering all those creatures would be a valuable resource, but it wouldn't be cornsnakes.com. Expanding it to include the snakes I listed wouldn't change the essential nature of the site.

Ok. I see your point. But only because I accept that "the essential nature of the site" is probably quite different to different people. I've noticed that the essential nature of the site for some seems to be "a place where I can go to get attention and sympathy," but that's not what you or I think of it when we post.

And in the spirit of understanding that the essential nature of the site is different for every person, the way I see it, adding 7 categories or 5 or expanding a single one wouldn't change the essential nature of the site. People who already post about all of those things, or just about kings and intergrades, would simply have to pay closer attention when they create a new post. And any of the above propositions would confuse those of us who are creatures of habit and file things in the same file for years and years even though things change and it might no longer make the most sense (like how Stephanie became an older person with more than 3 important papers and all that crap doesn't belong in a single manilla folder). But hey, since we've got moderators now to move things around, makes no difference at all to me . . . I read all the intelligent king, emoryi, boid, lizard, chelonian, and tuatara posts (sometimes I wonder if they get food stuck between their bottom tooth rows). Not because I have them, but because I might one day, and if I read it now, I'll remember that I read it once, and will be able to find it when I need it.

 

[jaxom1957]

Ok. I see your point. But only because I accept that "the essential nature of the site" is probably quite different to different people.

I see "Other Related Snakes", or whatever it would be called, as a Forum, equal to "Cultivars", "Feeders", etc. Adding one new major category is very different from adding half a dozen. Putting the other animals on the same plane as "Cornsnakes" dilutes the site in a way I don't think "Other Related Snakes" does. The latter is an extension of the main theme; the others are complete departures.

 

[Ssthisto]

I think you were right in pointing out that this is a site about one NA snake. Expanding it to include other NA snakes is not a giant leap. We don't even have to expand it that far. How about limiting it to species that have successfully bred with corn snakes, "successfully" being defined as, "Producing viable and fertile offspring"? I mean that facetiously, but only just. The other snakes I mentioned (milk, gopher, rat and king) share so much with corn snakes that the species can interbreed. The overlap in the makeup and husbandry needs of these NA species is a great part of why corn snake owners keep them as well. "Closely Related Species" would also be a fine title for the forum.

What about Elaphe climacophora - the Japanese Ratsnake?

I've seen some lovely hybrids of these X corn in our local shop

That said, I think splitting "general" into "General" and "Other Reptiles" might be a possibility.

Then again... a forum where people are going to be looking for and at threads about Everglades Rats, Texas Rats, Mexican Black Kings and Goin's Kings... that's tempting.

 

[jaxom1957]

What about Elaphe climacophora - the Japanese Ratsnake?

I've seen some lovely hybrids of these X corn in our local shop

I've never seen or heard of any successful matings between Old World and New World rat snakes. You know for certain that that's what was in the shop, or that's what you were told they were?

I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just highly skeptical about the compatability of snakes from the two continents.

 

[Susan]

Breaking up the General ChitChat forum into subforums has already been discussed. Personally, this is cornsnakes.com. If you want specific forums on other types of snakes or critters, go see FaunaClassifieds.com.

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29674&highlight=subforums

 

[Ssthisto]

I've never seen or heard of any successful matings between Old World and New World rat snakes. You know for certain that that's what was in the shop, or that's what you were told they were?

I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just highly skeptical about the compatability of snakes from the two continents.

I was skeptical too, when I saw the stocklist. I'd never heard of a New World / Old World cross either.

But the shop is a reputable one who bought them directly from their breeder -and the animals, in the flesh, do look remarkably like they could be a first generation cross between a corn and a Japanese Ratsnake. It makes me wonder if corns would also be compatible with Zamenis situla... since the striped Z. situla I've seen are the ultimate in "Aztec-looking" snakes.