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ouijia boards?

LOL. You know, it's sad how far parents will go to deceive their own children.

I'm with you. When my daughter was old enough to understand what I meant I started teaching her that there is no magic. My wife supported me in this. My daughter is a very intelligent, well grounded person; more than I can say for a lot of her "peers".
Most holidays are overdone in this country. People try to retain some of the original meaning of the holiday, but it gets covered by the gloss coat. If it's a festival at the traditional harvest time call it a harvest festival, if it's a celebration of the solstice call it that, don't make up a story for an existing celebration and fit it to your religion.
 
What experiences? Can you separate what you THINK you've experienced from what you HAVE experienced? I didn't think so.

But then you don't know, no do you? I don't *think* I have told people about my actual experiences. I know I haven't told my most recent ones. I'm pretty sure I'm more involved in this crap more than any other kid for reasons I do not know. When ever something weird or spooky happens, I approach it as a skeptic, it's not like if I hear a bang it must be a ghost. I don't think you, as a non-believer in this, nor other people could understand, really. It's better if I don't talk about the stuff I believe in (and there's alot) because I get responses like this. You don't believe in it, that's great, I'm not trying to make you start believing. I hope you can stop doing it to me...

Just because I believe in this "cruddy, muddy, stupid, pointless, evidence-less junk" doesn't mean I can't be a great scientist. I'm pretty sure scientists are told to stop believing in this stuff and go strictly by what science tells you. I respect that and I won't bring in to my studies but it would be hard to just leave it at that.

I actually believed in Santa Claus for longer than I probably should have.
I believed in Santa until I was 7, when I asked my mum.. she said he wasn't real. She also told me the tooth fairy is fake when I asked. Oh well...

Oh yes, and I talked to my mum's ex and he said that he wants to go out and go into a haunted house or place... I want to do it to maybe get some "non-evidence" and see what kind of stuff is here in NJ. I was thinking the Jersey Devil, Leeds Point, or some abandoned asylum. NJ is pretty old so there must be something here...
 
I'm with you. When my daughter was old enough to understand what I meant I started teaching her that there is no magic. My wife supported me in this. My daughter is a very intelligent, well grounded person; more than I can say for a lot of her "peers".
Most holidays are overdone in this country. People try to retain some of the original meaning of the holiday, but it gets covered by the gloss coat. If it's a festival at the traditional harvest time call it a harvest festival, if it's a celebration of the solstice call it that, don't make up a story for an existing celebration and fit it to your religion.

Amen, Alan!

I love how so many of the old pagan holidays were absorbed into mainstream religions, and how people have no clue why certain holiday traditions exist. Take, for instance, the Easter bunny and the whole "egg hunt" idea. Why is it that people use a rabbit and eggs to celebrate the resurrection of Christ? LOL. When you ask a Christian, most will shrug and say thy have no idea.

There was an Anglo-Saxon goddess, named Ostara (Oestra), whose symbols were the hare and the egg. She was a goddess of fertility, and was celebrated in the early Spring. Hello? :smash:
 
SnakesRule1234, I hear ya. There are definitely things out there that simply cannot be explained by the sciences of our times. Perhaps some of these things will be explained by science in the future, perhaps not.

Being a rational thinker, a scientist, an atheist, or all three is one thing, but calling someone's beliefs cruddy, muddy, stupid, pointless, evidence-less junk is another. People used to say the same thing about the Earth being round...That's preposterous, right? All the evidence we have shows that the Earth is flat! Round Earth, pffft! LOL
 
But then you don't know, no do you? I don't *think* I have told people about my actual experiences. I know I haven't told my most recent ones. I'm pretty sure I'm more involved in this crap more than any other kid for reasons I do not know.
But you must realize that if you were able to present empirical evidence for paranormal phenomena, you'd become one of the most famous people overnight! You'd probably become fabulously wealthy too. This goes for anyone. So why isn't there any empirical evidence? I was much more involved in that "crap" when I was a kid than other kids as well. I've always been a lucid dreamer, and I've always had what I considered to be extremely high incident rates of deja vu. I've had numerous incidents of what some would call "out of body" experiences throughout my life (even recently). So when I was a kid, I was convinced that I was "special" and abnormally sensitive to some "invisible world". I was one of those people who thought that I was making the streetlights go out when one would turn off in my vicinity. But eventually I found that there were rational explanations for everything I considered extraordinary. I wasn't that special after all-- unless you consider sleep disorders, possible mental illness, and an overactive imagination special...

When ever something weird or spooky happens, I approach it as a skeptic, it's not like if I hear a bang it must be a ghost. I don't think you, as a non-believer in this, nor other people could understand, really. It's better if I don't talk about the stuff I believe in (and there's alot) because I get responses like this. You don't believe in it, that's great, I'm not trying to make you start believing. I hope you can stop doing it to me...
I haven't always been a non-believer, so maybe I understand this better than you give me credit for. I don't think you're lying, but I also don't think that you truly approach these things as a skeptic. You're young, so I don't think that's such a reprehensible thing. A rational skeptic would analyze a phenomenon and try to find the best explanation for it. They would not view it in the light of what they WANT the explanation to be. I really WANTED to be a magical, special, extra-sensitively perceptive person, but I found more rational explanations for every phenomenon that had previously made me a believer in the "unexplained".

I like you, Paulina. You could tell me that you speak with the ghost of Ben Franklin every day, and it wouldn't change that. I know you don't like my woo-woo bashing, but what is it that always draws me into these discussions? It's usually when you (or someone else) decides that bashing science in some way strengthens the validity of your extraordinary claims. The scientific method is the most powerful tool humans have ever devised for examining and evaluating reality. It makes me angry when people dismiss it out of hand because they think that mere belief or faith is its equal. There's an infuriating, lazy smugness to those people that drives me up the wall. :shrugs:

Just because I believe in this "cruddy, muddy, stupid, pointless, evidence-less junk" doesn't mean I can't be a great scientist. I'm pretty sure scientists are told to stop believing in this stuff and go strictly by what science tells you. I respect that and I won't bring in to my studies but it would be hard to just leave it at that.
See? You don't understand science. Scientists aren't told to stop believing in this "stuff". In fact, there are scientists who try to study this "stuff". Scientists are encouraged to think critically and objectively. The good ones don't start with an explanation and try to make the evidence fit. As humans, we're all biased. One of the purposes of the scientific method is to "exorcize" this bias from our explanations of what's really going on.

Oh yes, and I talked to my mum's ex and he said that he wants to go out and go into a haunted house or place... I want to do it to maybe get some "non-evidence" and see what kind of stuff is here in NJ. I was thinking the Jersey Devil, Leeds Point, or some abandoned asylum. NJ is pretty old so there must be something here...
Good luck. I think your time would be better spent at a museum, but what do I know? ;)
 
A very well thought out and written post, I applaud you sir Munson.



Maybe the spirits have go to me already... The vodka certainly has! T-Minus 1hr30m until spookstown!
 
SnakesRule1234, I hear ya. There are definitely things out there that simply cannot be explained by the sciences of our times. Perhaps some of these things will be explained by science in the future, perhaps not.
Well, even gravity and magnetism haven't been thoroughly explained, but that doesn't mean that it's rational to believe that they're the result of invisible "pushing and pulling gnomes". But gravity and magnetism can be observed by anyone, anywhere, anytime. The very existence of the phenomena is not in question. The same can't be said for my invisible friend Znigplix, a demon from the 14th dimension of the 2,345th universe. Just because current science can't explain him is not support for the reality of his existence, nor does it justify my belief that he does exist.

Being a rational thinker, a scientist, an atheist, or all three is one thing, but calling someone's beliefs cruddy, muddy, stupid, pointless, evidence-less junk is another. People used to say the same thing about the Earth being round...That's preposterous, right? All the evidence we have shows that the Earth is flat! Round Earth, pffft! LOL
Oh well. As an atheist, I've been subjected to plenty of nastiness, but I can deal with it. I mean, I'm going to burn in Hell eternally, but I guess it's ok. Your round-earth example doesn't make much sense to me. I don't see an analogy between the shape of the earth and the existence of supernatural entities or phenomena. There was no question that the earth existed, even if its shape wasn't evident. There's no evidence supporting the existence of the supernatural, so what can we say about its "nature" (if that even makes sense). Incorrect speculation of the nature of observed things is different from speculation of the nature of unobserved things. If I tell you that through faith I KNOW that there's a unicorn living on Pluto, do we have to bother arguing about what color he is?

The FSM spoke to me this morning, and He's very disappointed in you. :grin01:
 
I've said this before and i'll say this again whenever the flat earth theory is brought up to support ghosts vs science round 2...

The flat earth theory, when first theorised was actually a very good one. Technology was not advanced and worldwide travel was near impossible. Scientists could only observe the world they could see, the world as plane is flat as far as the eye can see, and thats what they are observing it with. Hills, mountains and valleys all appear as indentations or protrusions from the earths surface, so in that time and place the earth being flat was logical.
As science, technology and humans advanced they gained a better oversight and discovered "new worlds" and found they could traverse all around the globe, ergo it must be round and continous as opposed to flat and from point a to point b. I don't see the relevance of comparing these two theorys against say, lucid dreaming vs spookydooky out of body experiences.


But maybe thats just me!
 
Ok, so the flat earth thing wasn't the best analogy. What I was trying to point out is that science has a habit of kicking itself in the butt. What is scientific fact one day can quickly be dismissed as incorrect and replaced by yet another scientific theory the next. That's not a bad thing at all. It's progress, which is what keeps us from slipping into another dark age. I'm all for it.

Currently, there is no evidence to support religious and spiritual beliefs...but one day, there may be. That's all I'm trying to point out. Scientifically speaking, it is not impossible to theorize the existence of things that cannot currently be measured by the human senses or any other technology our species has created.

The FSM wouldn't be upset with me because I live my life as a pirate, thereby reducing global warming. Thus, I am exempt from his wrath and blessed by His noodly appendage. LOL.

Dean, I'm sure you're not going to burn in hell...and I'm sure you've been the target of nastiness. I've seen my fair share as well. It's difficult to do, but I think it's important to view these types of discussions from both sides. Atheists become defensive because of attacks by believers and then in turn, the atheist attacks the believer. Then, the believer attacks again, and on and on. My philosophy is: Let them believe. Don't believe in god? Great! I could care less. Do believe in god? Great, I could care less. LOL

Oh and Mr.AJ, there's nothing paranormal about lucid dreams. Lucid dreaming simply means that you can consciously control a dream, which is typically considered a subconscious function. It really requires nothing more than knowing how to trigger this function in your brain and quite a bit of practice...although some folks are able to lucid dream without ever even knowing how or why it's happening. It has nothing to do with gods, ghosts, spirits, psychic ability, etc...

Out of body experiences...now that's a little tougher. People have definitely had them, but what is the cause? Is it something neural? Presently, we don't have any way to observe this phenomenon unless it is you who is having the experience. I know there are several substances (mostly entheogens) that can spark an out of body type of experience. So it is likely that we are simply dealing with a function of the brain that we do not yet understand.
 
Did the ouijia board, Karina wouldn't even be in the house when i did it.

Nothing happened, The glass i used didn't move in the slightest, No dimming lights, no ghostbusters music, Nothing at all. Couldn't video it though as i was on my own.

Maybe i need more people with me, Maybe i need to try a few times before "spirits" trust me enough to make contact... Maybe its because my piece of paper didn't carry the mystical Hasbro logo - Or maybe, just maybe its all balderdash.

I'll try it again when i've got a few mates around and will get it video'd - See what happes then eh.
 
Ok, so the flat earth thing wasn't the best analogy. What I was trying to point out is that science has a habit of kicking itself in the butt. What is scientific fact one day can quickly be dismissed as incorrect and replaced by yet another scientific theory the next. That's not a bad thing at all. It's progress, which is what keeps us from slipping into another dark age. I'm all for it.

Currently, there is no evidence to support religious and spiritual beliefs...but one day, there may be. That's all I'm trying to point out. Scientifically speaking, it is not impossible to theorize the existence of things that cannot currently be measured by the human senses or any other technology our species has created.

The FSM wouldn't be upset with me because I live my life as a pirate, thereby reducing global warming. Thus, I am exempt from his wrath and blessed by His noodly appendage. LOL.

Dean, I'm sure you're not going to burn in hell...and I'm sure you've been the target of nastiness. I've seen my fair share as well. It's difficult to do, but I think it's important to view these types of discussions from both sides. Atheists become defensive because of attacks by believers and then in turn, the atheist attacks the believer. Then, the believer attacks again, and on and on. My philosophy is: Let them believe. Don't believe in god? Great! I could care less. Do believe in god? Great, I could care less. LOL

Oh and Mr.AJ, there's nothing paranormal about lucid dreams. Lucid dreaming simply means that you can consciously control a dream, which is typically considered a subconscious function. It really requires nothing more than knowing how to trigger this function in your brain and quite a bit of practice...although some folks are able to lucid dream without ever even knowing how or why it's happening. It has nothing to do with gods, ghosts, spirits, psychic ability, etc...

Out of body experiences...now that's a little tougher. People have definitely had them, but what is the cause? Is it something neural? Presently, we don't have any way to observe this phenomenon unless it is you who is having the experience. I know there are several substances (mostly entheogens) that can spark an out of body type of experience. So it is likely that we are simply dealing with a function of the brain that we do not yet understand.

Best post yet, imo.

I was much more involved in that "crap" when I was a kid than other kids as well. I've always been a lucid dreamer, and I've always had what I considered to be extremely high incident rates of deja vu. I've had numerous incidents of what some would call "out of body" experiences throughout my life (even recently). So when I was a kid, I was convinced that I was "special" and abnormally sensitive to some "invisible world". I was one of those people who thought that I was making the streetlights go out when one would turn off in my vicinity.

Let's just say, I have it worse than you had. I don't think I'm special, just different. I'll end it at that.
 
I've always been an atheist, Pat. I'm still an atheist. All I was trying to say is that it was easier for me to reject the Christian god as a kid, because he didn't seem "cool" to me. But as a fantasy-loving, D&D playing youngster, I found the idea of other supernatural entities (e.g., demons, ghosts, spirits) to be a much "cooler" concept. I don't know if I ever really believed in them either, but I was more willing to entertain the idea. Later, after I had developed some critical thinking skills, I realized that I couldn't even try to believe in anything for which there wasn't convincing evidence.

Well rock on then. It's very hard to see you as a "fantasy-loving, D&D playing youngster", :). Religion was never pressed on me, and just like you, as soon as I developed critical thinking skills I began to doubt christianity, and all other religions for that matter. I ever really thought of god as "cool" or not, I just started realizing that nothing was there (see my sig, again). Along with the fact that I lived in a house that was creepy as heck and because of my beliefs (or non-beliefs, I guess) I doubted spirits.

I actually believed in Santa Claus for longer than I probably should have. The reason? I had been given a certain body of evidence. First of all, he left presents on X-mas morning. But mostly it was because of a stunt my Dad and his brother played on me when I was about five years old. I still remember the event very clearly. My father called me over to the window and told me to look up in the sky. There was Rudolph's red nose blinking in the sky as Santa's sleigh passed over. I could even hear the sleigh bells. Of course, it was just a jetliner, and my uncle was outside under the window shaking some ornamental bells. But I didn't know that. I was convinced! But within a couple of years, I became adept enough at handwriting analysis to identify my Mom's handwriting on the packages from Santa. I'd also become more aware of what a jet passing over at night looked like. Then there was the "stakeout" where I saw my parents laying everything out Xmas eve. Very disappointing. :( :grin01:

SANTA DOESN'T EXIST!?!?!? :eek:

Nah, I figured it out...

Wow, your parents were in to it. Good for them. I found out by the old stakeout as well.
 
Did the ouijia board, Karina wouldn't even be in the house when i did it.

Nothing happened, The glass i used didn't move in the slightest, No dimming lights, no ghostbusters music, Nothing at all. Couldn't video it though as i was on my own.

Maybe i need more people with me, Maybe i need to try a few times before "spirits" trust me enough to make contact... Maybe its because my piece of paper didn't carry the mystical Hasbro logo - Or maybe, just maybe its all balderdash.

I'll try it again when i've got a few mates around and will get it video'd - See what happes then eh.

I'll bet you forgot to wear your aluminum foil helmet. The mystical Hasbro logo is completely unnecessary...but the foil helmet is a must. :spinner: Oh, and you have to spin around 75 times before you attempt to contact the dead..
 
...How about saying "Bloody Mary" in the mirror 13 times? AJ, try that! Just make sure to turn the lights off...

I did that as a kid. I woke up the next morning with scratches all over my back.


... Then I realized I always wake up with scratches all over my back because the cat likes to tenderize her bed before laying down.
 
Let's just say, I have it worse than you had. I don't think I'm special, just different. I'll end it at that.
Let's just say that you don't know that. Why the spooky secrecy? Go ahead and tell me what's happened to you. Don't worry, you won't scare me. I can take it. If it's stuff that's too terrible to share, then stop bringing it up.
 
I don't get it, I get blasted for mocking beliefs yet when i do something to prove/disprove the belief in ouijia boards and it doesn't work all i get from "believers" is posts telling me to mock it more?.

Oh well, next time i'll get mystic meg to hold my hand while i do it... maybe it'll work then...!

mysticmeg.jpg
 
Ah, Mystic Meg, quality reference AJ, she was the scurge of the National Lottery here in the UK for ages:flames:

and yeah Voodoo i agree, all she needs is a staff, and a gold coin stuck to her forehead and she's all set! :rofl:
 
Ah, Mystic Meg, quality reference AJ, she was the scurge of the National Lottery here in the UK for ages:flames:

and yeah Voodoo i agree, all she needs is a staff, and a gold coin stuck to her forehead and she's all set! :rofl:


Hahah! Jaffa, Kree!
 
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