Hi, I am new here and I have a problem that I hope someone can give me some advice on. Thanks in advance! I have 2 snakes, one a large gopher and the other a beautiful corn who has the most docile, lovely personality. About 2 months ago my corn (Galadreil) stopped eating when she normally would happily eat two mice per week. At first I wasn't worried as she seemed healthy otherwise, not losing weight, was having normal sheds, drinking, still wanting to be held, etc, etc, she just would not eat. I know they can go dormant from time to time so I assumed it would pass but kept offering her a meal when I fed my other one. However today revealed a big problem, I got them out to try to feed her again and now she has lost enough weight that I can see and feel a large impaction about 3/4's of the way down her length. I am assuming it's the last mouse she ate as occasionally some powdery bones will come out instead of a regular bowel movement. I KNOW she needs to be treated and soon but as much as I love her and want to rush her to the nearest Hospital, at the moment I have zero funds, especially the kind that may cover probable surgery. Is there any way at all to try to treat her myself? I was considering a single drop of a liquid laxative and a soak in a warm bath but I don't know if that is wise. It's breaking my heart, I want to help her so bad and literally cannot. ANY advice is greatly appreciated! :awcrap:
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Please help??
- Thread starter ecthelion
- Start date
First of all, welcome to the forum!
Now then, I'd like to start with you saying that usually you feed your corn two mice a week. How big/old is the corn, and what size are the mice? If it's an adult corn and your feeding adult mice, that is too much - an adult should be eating one large adult mouse every 10-14 days. If you're feeding much smaller/younger mice, however, that would explain it. That having been said, this is a secondary issue at this point as overfeeding is not likely, as far as I know, to cause impaction.
As a little correction, the white powdery stuff is not powdered bone at all (they digest the bone fully) but urates. Unlike mammals, snakes pass their nitrogenous waste (urine) as a solid precipitate, rather than as a liquid. This is also secondary to the main issue however.
Are you absolutely sure that what you're seeing/feeling is an impacted mass and not infertile eggs? Infertile eggs will leave a series of defined bumps that you should be able to feel along her body, instead of a single solid mass. Snakes sometimes go off their food when they're carrying eggs, infertile or otherwise. Has she passed any stool (not just urates) at all since she last ate? From your description though, it does sound more like an impaction, unfortunately. The usual cause of that is the snake swallowing an excessive amount of something indigestible, such as the substrate or their own shed skin (snakes don't usually do this but I have one that does, and passes it intact out the other end). However, even when they do consume such things, they should be able to pass them if they are otherwise healthy and the husbandry is correct. Could you please provide details of your set-up including temps? This is more to stop it happening again or to your other snake.
Now, for the issue at hand, the first thing you should do is give her a bath. For whatever reason, the movements associated with swimming seem to help snakes pass whatever's stuck in their bowels. To do this, make sure the water is shallow and only lukewarm at most - it should feel 'pleasantly cool' to the touch, but not actually cold. I have no idea whether laxatives meant for humans would work for snakes, so I would definitely not recommend trying it. It could be very harmful to them for all I know.
If the bath doesn't pass whatever's inside, you may be in trouble. The only way of removing a very stubborn impacted mass is, I believe, surgery, and you've already said that the vets isn't an option. Some things you can try.
Best of luck.
Now then, I'd like to start with you saying that usually you feed your corn two mice a week. How big/old is the corn, and what size are the mice? If it's an adult corn and your feeding adult mice, that is too much - an adult should be eating one large adult mouse every 10-14 days. If you're feeding much smaller/younger mice, however, that would explain it. That having been said, this is a secondary issue at this point as overfeeding is not likely, as far as I know, to cause impaction.
As a little correction, the white powdery stuff is not powdered bone at all (they digest the bone fully) but urates. Unlike mammals, snakes pass their nitrogenous waste (urine) as a solid precipitate, rather than as a liquid. This is also secondary to the main issue however.
Are you absolutely sure that what you're seeing/feeling is an impacted mass and not infertile eggs? Infertile eggs will leave a series of defined bumps that you should be able to feel along her body, instead of a single solid mass. Snakes sometimes go off their food when they're carrying eggs, infertile or otherwise. Has she passed any stool (not just urates) at all since she last ate? From your description though, it does sound more like an impaction, unfortunately. The usual cause of that is the snake swallowing an excessive amount of something indigestible, such as the substrate or their own shed skin (snakes don't usually do this but I have one that does, and passes it intact out the other end). However, even when they do consume such things, they should be able to pass them if they are otherwise healthy and the husbandry is correct. Could you please provide details of your set-up including temps? This is more to stop it happening again or to your other snake.
Now, for the issue at hand, the first thing you should do is give her a bath. For whatever reason, the movements associated with swimming seem to help snakes pass whatever's stuck in their bowels. To do this, make sure the water is shallow and only lukewarm at most - it should feel 'pleasantly cool' to the touch, but not actually cold. I have no idea whether laxatives meant for humans would work for snakes, so I would definitely not recommend trying it. It could be very harmful to them for all I know.
If the bath doesn't pass whatever's inside, you may be in trouble. The only way of removing a very stubborn impacted mass is, I believe, surgery, and you've already said that the vets isn't an option. Some things you can try.
- Ring the vet and see if they offer payment plans. Many vets will allow you to pay in affordable installments, and honestly, if her condition is already deteriorating, veterinary attention may be the only thing that helps her. Ultimately she will die if whatever's inside her doesn't come out (assuming impaction is the problem), whether she passes it or a vet removes it.
- Ring the vet and ask them for advice over the phone. Not sure that they'll have anything to say other than 'give her a bath', but worth a shot. Who knows, perhaps a laxative would work, but you should definitely ask a professional first.
- Bit of a long shot, but around here there is a charity that funds the treatment of pets whose owners can't afford it themselves. Perhaps you could see if there's something similar in your area? Again, bit of a long shot.
- If all else fails, you might want to consider giving her up for adoption to someone who can afford to treat her. I know it's not nice to consider, but ultimately if it's the only way she's going to get the treatment she needs, it might be your responsibility to make sure she gets it, even if it's by giving her up.
Best of luck.
axis1
Fuhgeddaboudit!!!!
Hi ecthelion! How ya been?
Sorry for your troubles, both you and your little sneaky one's!! That just sucks worse than getting sand in the motion lotion!! However, I have nothing to add to Giga's pretty awesome post prior to mine, except for you to know that there's someone else to offer some moral support! I really hope everything works out for your little sneaky one! In any case, I would look into it sooner than later, since that is an AWFUL state for your snake to be in for ANY length of time.
Thank you so much for your reply. It is most definitely an impaction, it's one large solid mouse shaped lump. I have had her for 3 years, she is full grown and fed adult mice but I use the smaller ones and for all this time (since she came off the "baby" foods) she has never had an issue eating or expelling her meals. I take the proper care of her, such as correct temps, promptly removing new sheds, her's are always intact and she never tries to eat them. Besides feeding time she does not have access to anything she could swallow besides food. Normally I would take her immediately to the vet as I have a couple of other exotics and they get the best of care, the reason I can't right now is that I just got hit with an unexpected financial issue days ago that was upwards of a thousand dollars but in general I normally spare no expense on my pets. I also just had major surgery last week and am having some complications so it's not physically possible for me to travel to the nearest reptile vet with ease, although if I could afford it I would send her with some else. I am going to put her in a warm bath in a bit and try to massage it down and see if I have any luck, I don't think I will try the laxative since snakes don't really digest their food the same as we do but I may try to call and ask some vets for advice if the bath fails. Other than that I will continue to find a way to get her treatment, knowing she is suffering is breaking my heart so I will do whatever I can to get her better. I really appreciate you both answering as last night I was kind of frantic. I will update later and thanks for the welcome!!
Well, there may be hope! I ran her a nice bath and she swam for a bit and then I began to massage the large, rock solid lump, she just laid there and seemed to enjoy it, I alternated between letting her swim and massaging for about 20 minutes and just when I was about to give up the solid lump "broke" and suddenly became very pliable, smaller pieces so I kept the massaging up to see if she would expel in the water but she did not, however it is most definitely better than it was, small enough to pass so after drying her off and cuddling and talking to her awhile I put her back in her enclosure and am hoping for movement later tonight or tomorrow. Man, I hope that works!
That sounds promising! You could always try giving her another bath tomorrow, especially if she didn't seem stressed by it. I'm not sure how much it would help, but you could also try slitting the back of the mouse when you feed her. It can aid in digestion, although I don't know if it would help with preventing constipation.
Fingers crossed she's on the mend then. I would agree with frequent baths until she manages to actually get some of it out though.
I do still think that two small adult mice a week is a bit much. One small mouse a week would probably better - captive corns are quite prone to becoming overweight and it can cause a lot of health issues down the line, so perhaps it's something to consider? I would also have a think about what might have caused her to become constipated. Sure, it could be just one of things (it does happen to us humans every now and again, after all), but if there's any possibility that husbandry improvements could be made, it might be worth looking into it.
Good job on helping her out so far; hopefully she'll be fully recovered soon!
Keep us updated!
I do still think that two small adult mice a week is a bit much. One small mouse a week would probably better - captive corns are quite prone to becoming overweight and it can cause a lot of health issues down the line, so perhaps it's something to consider? I would also have a think about what might have caused her to become constipated. Sure, it could be just one of things (it does happen to us humans every now and again, after all), but if there's any possibility that husbandry improvements could be made, it might be worth looking into it.
Good job on helping her out so far; hopefully she'll be fully recovered soon!
Keep us updated!
Giga,
I think I know what may have happened, I buy the adult mice in a pack of 4, I give 2 to my large Gopher and 2 to her but I always make sure she gets the smaller 2 and like I said I have never had an issue with it and she would always happily eat them and if she wasn't real hungry she would just eat 1. I'm thinking perhaps I may have given her one that was just a tiny bit too big for her so if she recovers from this I will definitely be decreasing the size and frequency. Ok, off to bath her again, thanks for the encouragement!
I think I know what may have happened, I buy the adult mice in a pack of 4, I give 2 to my large Gopher and 2 to her but I always make sure she gets the smaller 2 and like I said I have never had an issue with it and she would always happily eat them and if she wasn't real hungry she would just eat 1. I'm thinking perhaps I may have given her one that was just a tiny bit too big for her so if she recovers from this I will definitely be decreasing the size and frequency. Ok, off to bath her again, thanks for the encouragement!
Yes. The easiest way (to me) to add photos is to upload them somewhere else, like imgur or photobucket, and then copy the image location into the little icon that looks like a mountain and moon.
Thank you, I will try that! Also, HUGE improvement!! Her color the past few days has been a pre-shed washed out hue but today her vibrancy is back AND when I got her out for the bath, the best thing yet: Last night, even after the hard mass broke there was still a huge pocket of mushy smaller pieces, today that lump is virtually undetectable! I felt the area and it's a good 95% smaller than last night! She was playful in the tub, very active and "normal", she is back home now and still out in the open, avoiding her hide, I do believe she has been digesting since last night so hoping for an expulsion soon. Fingers crossed!!
axis1
Fuhgeddaboudit!!!!
Now THERE'S a sentence you won't see in everyday use!! :nyah: Sort of on par with, "Please hand me that automobile," or "Please saw my legs off!"
(Hi DLena! How ya been?)
Hi ecthelion! I also hope you find LOADS of snake turd when you wake up this morning!!
Hey! That actually felt pretty good to write that!!
BTW, there's a bunch of different ways (apparently) to send & post pix but none are real user-friendly except for the albums in the public profile section. Since I have an iPhone which takes ridiculously large pix, I just email them to myself which allows me to resize them, THEN I post them here to a thread. Probably the reason I don't post MORE, since I photograph almost EVERYTHING! (I caught my Chili-Pepper burping once that looked as if he was having a hissy-fit on steroids!! You can see it in one of my albums!!).
In any event, hope your little sneaky one's OK by the time you read this!
Thanks to everyone for the support, advice and knowledge but I am sad to say that my sweet Galadreil passed away last night. I am sick with grief. I really thought things were looking up.......I made her a casket and we buried her this morning, I used her favorite rock to paint a tombstone, waiting on paint to dry. I feel so guilty, so sad, so lost....
I'm so sorry.