• Hello!

    Either you have not registered on this site yet, or you are registered but have not logged in. In either case, you will not be able to use the full functionality of this site until you have registered, and then logged in after your registration has been approved.

    Registration is FREE, so please register so you can participate instead of remaining a lurker....

    Please be certain that the location field is correctly filled out when you register. All registrations that appear to be bogus will be rejected. Which means that if your location field does NOT match the actual location of your registration IP address, then your registration will be rejected.

    Sorry about the strictness of this requirement, but it is necessary to block spammers and scammers at the door as much as possible.

Quadruple recessive outcomes

D

danielmcginty

New member
Okay I've got to grips on the simpler things and am moving up. Just wondering if anyone can give me the outcomes and percentages on what these breeding would produce.
I think I know this one but I'd like to make sure;

Amel Motley het Lavender Stripe X Amel Motley het Lavender Stripe


Also this Quadruple recessive one;

Opal (Amel +Lavender) Motley X Anery Stripe = All Normal Motley het Snopal (Amel + Lavender + Anery) Stripe

If anyone can help me I'd greatly appreciate it, thanks.
 
If you look in the FAQ of this section (The Cultivars) there is a link to a program that you can download that will help with tricky triple/quad genetics.
 
Just reduce it down and do the math.

Amel motley het lavender stripe

aammLlSs x aammLlSs

So basically you're working with het lavender stripe x het lav stripe.
 
I don't know who Mick is but his Program is amazing, he is a God, or at least a demi god-I will never use my brain again! Thanks guys!
 
danielmcginty said:
Okay I've got to grips on the simpler things and am moving up. Just wondering if anyone can give me the outcomes and percentages on what these breeding would produce.
I think I know this one but I'd like to make sure;

Amel Motley het Lavender Stripe X Amel Motley het Lavender Stripe

Also this Quadruple recessive one;

Opal (Amel +Lavender) Motley X Anery Stripe = All Normal Motley het Snopal (Amel + Lavender + Anery) Stripe

If anyone can help me I'd greatly appreciate it, thanks.
Click to expand...

Amel Motley het lav stripe X Amel Motley het Lav Stripe (aamsLl X aamsLl) =

75% Amelanistic:
About 60% of the offspring will be Amel Motley, who are 66% possible het Lavender and Stripe. (Possible genotypes: aammLL, aamsLL, aammLl, aamsLl)
About 15% of the offspring will be Amel Stripe, 66% het Lavender, not carrying motley (as motley is dominant to stripe, and animals carrying motley would appear motley) (Possible genotypes: aassLL, aassLl)
25% Opal
About 19% of the offspring will be Opal Motley, who are 66% possible het stripe. (Possible genotypes: aammll, aamsll)
And the remaining 6% of the offspring will be Opal Stripe, and will not carry motley. (Genotype: aassll)

Now, your normal motleys het Glacier Stripe... that's rather more than I can bend my mind around this early in the morning :)
 
Joejr14 said:
Just reduce it down and do the math.

Amel motley het lavender stripe

aammLlSs x aammLlSs

So basically you're working with het lavender stripe x het lav stripe.
Click to expand...

I'm curious how youwoudl have written the genotype if they had been motley het opal stripe. mmLlSsaW ? I know that capital means dominant and non capital means recessive, but you also use a non capital to indicate there is only 1 morph gene on a locus if i'm right. Your code should have been AAMMLlSs if non capitals indicate a normal gene at a locus i think.

I would have written amel motley het lav stripe as aammlWsW , using capital for dominance and the letter w for normal genes.
 
Blutengel said:
I'm curious how youwoudl have written the genotype if they had been motley het opal stripe. mmLlSsaW ? I know that capital means dominant and non capital means recessive, but you also use a non capital to indicate there is only 1 morph gene on a locus if i'm right. Your code should have been AAMMLlSs if non capitals indicate a normal gene at a locus i think.

I would have written amel motley het lav stripe as aammlWsW , using capital for dominance and the letter w for normal genes.
Click to expand...

Actually, Motley and Stripe are on the same gene locus, and they're both recessive to 'wild type pattern not-motley-or-stripe' which would be expressed as M.

Technically Motley should be represented as m^m (with the second M as superscript) and Stripe would be m^s (again, superscripted). Motley may be dominant to stripe, but it's still recessive to wild-type not-motley-not-stripe, so it's expressed as a lower-case.

So Amel Motley het Lav Stripe would be aamsLl - homozygous amel on the Amel locus, heterozygous for motley, heterozygous for stripe on the Motley/Stripe locus, and heterozygous for lavender on that locus.
 
And now I'm awake enough to do Normal Motley het Glacier Stripe WITHOUT the use of a gene calculator.

Your normal motleys het glacier stripe would be expressed as msAaEeLl
(I am using E for Anerythristic).

Therefore:

You would get 75% motley offspring which are 66% possible het stripe.
You would get 25% stripe offspring, which do not carry motley at all.

This 75-25 theme goes through for every possibility, which means you get a serious smorgasboard of offspring.

Of these possibilities:

msAaEeLl X msAaEeLl = 81 possible genotypes

17% Visual Normal Motleys, 66% het Glacier Stripe:
(Genotypes: mmAAEELL, mmAaEELL, mmAAEeLL, mmAAEELl, mmAaEeLL, mmAaEELl, mmAAEeLl, msAAEELL, msAaEELL, msAAEeLL, msAAEELl, msAaEeLL, msAaEELl, msAAEeLl)

10% Visual Amel Motleys, 66% het glacier stripe:
(Genotypes: mmaaEELL, mmaaEeLL, mmaaEELl, mmaaEeLl, msaaEELL, msaaEeLL, msaaEELl, msaaEeLl)

10% Visual Anery Motleys, 66% het glacier stripe:
(Genotypes: mmAAeeLL, mmAaeeLL, mmAAeeLl, mmAaeeLl, mmAAeeLl, msAAeeLL, msAaeeLL, msAaeeLl, msAAeeLl)

10% Visual Lavender Motleys, 66% het Glacier Stripe:
(Genotypes: mmAAEEll, mmAaEEll, mmAAEell, mmAaEell, mmAaEEll, msAaEEll, msAAEEll, msAaEell, msAAEell)

5% Visual Snow Motleys, 66% het Glacier Stripe:
(Genotypes: mmaaeeLL, mmaaeeLl, msaaeeLL, msaaeeLl)

5% Visual Opal Motleys, 66% het Glacier Stripe:
(Genotypes: mmaaEell, mmaaEEll, msaaEell, msaaEEll)

5% Visual Anery Lavender Motleys, 66% het Glacier Stripe:
(Genotypes: mmAaeell, mmAAeell, msAaeell, msAAeell)

2% Visual Glacier Motleys, 66% het stripe:
(Genotypes: mmaaeell, msaaeell)

10% Visual Normal Stripes, 66% het glacier:
(Genotypes: ssAAEELL, ssAAEELl, ssAAEeLL, ssAAEeLl, ssAaEELL, ssAaEeLL, ssAaEELl, ssAaEeLl)

5% Visual Amel Stripes, 66% het Glacier:
(Genotypes: ssaaEELL, ssaaEELl, ssaaEeLL, ssaaEeLl)

5% Visual Anery Stripes, 66% het Glacier:
(Genotypes:ssAaeeLL, ssAAeeLL, ssAaeeLl, ssAAeeLl)

5% Visual Lavender Stripes, 66% het Glacier:
(Genotypes: ssAaEEll, ssAAEEll, ssAaEell, ssAAEell)

2% Visual Snow Stripes, 66% het Glacier:
(Genotypes: ssaaeeLl, ssaaeeLL)

2% Visual Opal Stripes, 66% het Glacier:
(Genotypes: ssaaEell, ssaaEEll)

2% Visual Anery Lavender Stripes, 66% het Glacier:
(Genotypes: ssAaeell, ssAAeell)

1% Visual Glacier Stripes:
(Genotype: ssaaeell)

However, I've heard that some people have trouble identifying glaciers as opposed to opals or snows (I certainly expect to, until I see some in person and grow them up - which is why I got two anery het glacier stripe instead of an anery and a normal - more predictability of results!) - and anery lavenders can be confused with lavenders, so in a visual sorting-through-a-clutch at hatching, you'd have something more like:

5% opal/snow/glacier stripes
5% anery stripes
5% amel stripes
7% lavender/anery-lavender stripes
10% normal stripes
10% anery motleys
10% amel motleys
12% opal/snow/glacier motleys
15% lavender/anery-lavender motleys
17% normal motleys...

which, for some inexplicable reason, doesn't add up to QUITE 100%. Probably because I rounded my percentages :) With Murphy lurking, you know the extra four percent is going to be either nonfeeding glacier stripes OR normal motleys with an attitude.
 
Ssthisto said:
Actually, Motley and Stripe are on the same gene locus, and they're both recessive to 'wild type pattern not-motley-or-stripe' which would be expressed as M.

Technically Motley should be represented as m^m (with the second M as superscript) and Stripe would be m^s (again, superscripted). Motley may be dominant to stripe, but it's still recessive to wild-type not-motley-not-stripe, so it's expressed as a lower-case.

So Amel Motley het Lav Stripe would be aamsLl - homozygous amel on the Amel locus, heterozygous for motley, heterozygous for stripe on the Motley/Stripe locus, and heterozygous for lavender on that locus.
Click to expand...

Darn, forgot about the stripe and mot thing..... I still don't 'agree' on the capital L, indicating het lavender.... how would you write homo lav then? LL?
 
Blutengel said:
Darn, forgot about the stripe and mot thing..... I still don't 'agree' on the capital L, indicating het lavender.... how would you write homo lav then? LL?
Click to expand...

No, homozygous lavender would be ll - two lower-case l - because it's a recessive. Capital L = "wild type not-lavender".
 
Ssthisto said:
No, homozygous lavender would be ll - two lower-case l - because it's a recessive. Capital L = "wild type not-lavender".
Click to expand...

I keep on mixing up things with the other system, using the letter w for wild type.... not sure where i saw that but i did not make it up myself...

Anyway, the system with capitals indicating wild type and not morph, woudl fail when dominant morphs where discovered.... how woudl one express the dominance of a morphgene over wild type then? I'm curiosu how people do that with boa's fo rexample.... hypo is dominant in boa's, so het hypo would be hH, ignoring the fact that i tis not clear which one is the het.
homo hypo would be hh but then it loos like it is recessive...

By the way, sorry for hijacking the thread, but I saw a change to find out about this.
 
Blutengel said:
I'm curious how youwoudl have written the genotype if they had been motley het opal stripe. mmLlSsaW ? I know that capital means dominant and non capital means recessive, but you also use a non capital to indicate there is only 1 morph gene on a locus if i'm right. Your code should have been AAMMLlSs if non capitals indicate a normal gene at a locus i think.

I would have written amel motley het lav stripe as aammlWsW , using capital for dominance and the letter w for normal genes.
Click to expand...


Motley het opal stripe- msAaLl

Amel motley het lav stripe- aamsLl

I've never seen anything about using a filler for 'normal' genes.
 
In mice, morphs that are dominant to wild type are denoted as capitals with superscripts and just recorded as dominants - so, for example:

Dominant lethal yellow A^y is dominant to Dominant Viable yellow A^vy which is dominant to Wild-type Agouti A which is dominant to Self a.
 
Using superscripts on a website that doesn't allow HTML is annoying. I know Chuck used them---but that was before Rich killed allowing html in posts.

Most people are going to get very confused with superscripts that aren't actually superscripted. I learned with Aa so that's what I've always done.

But all of those mice genes can also be shown with Aa combos.
 
Joejr14 said:
Using superscripts on a website that doesn't allow HTML is annoying. I know Chuck used them---but that was before Rich killed allowing html in posts.

Most people are going to get very confused with superscripts that aren't actually superscripted. I learned with Aa so that's what I've always done.

But all of those mice genes can also be shown with Aa combos.
Click to expand...

Please show me how to write the genotypes of mice het and homo for a dominant gene without making it look like you mean wildtype genes. Not trying to annoy you, but I just don't see it :shrugs:
 
This is a screen print of the genetics wizard made by Marcel Poot (hope you don't mind Marcel). He does not use W or w but a + , thus avoiding any confusing, in case a dominant morph appears some day. Superscript is necessary too. This system seems easy to understand too. Maybe it is European :grin01:
 

Attachments

  • Nieuwe afbeelding (6)kopie.jpg
    Nieuwe afbeelding (6)kopie.jpg
    39.6 KB · Views: 38
Blutengel said:
Please show me how to write the genotypes of mice het and homo for a dominant gene without making it look like you mean wildtype genes. Not trying to annoy you, but I just don't see it :shrugs:
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, but I'm a bit confused.

Without making it look like you mean wild-type genes? Huh?

We're writing a genotype, Blutengel, not a phenotype. We're simply listing what genes a particular animal is carrying.

If I simply wrote: aallmm, what would that be? How about AaLlMm? or AaLLMM? You have no idea unless I specify if a particular gene is dominant or not. There's no way to express dominance over the wild-type with a genotype only. That's not the point of a genotype.
 
Joe, can you clarify about the mouse genes?

I'm not quite sure how you'd show four different genes (three of which are dominants) on the same locus and try to express something like "I have a Red who carries Agouti"
(which I would express as A^yA - dominant lethal yellow + agouti) as just the Aa sort of combo?

I do agree about the not superscripted superscripts, though!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top