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question
- Thread starter losmetros
- Start date
lozzer
New member
The reason its so common in the UK is because there's alot of pet shops now telling new corn snake owners that they can house multiple corns without telling them what can happen and what they can do to lessen the chance of cannibalism.
I don't reccomend houseing together but it can be done without any problems.
I don't reccomend houseing together but it can be done without any problems.
Lennycorn
Just see the truth
lozzer said:
Your're contradicting yourself.
Why don't you recommend housing together if it can be done without any problems?
What is the "trick" to lessen the chance of cannibalism?? I would like to know!
Is it .................................not to houses together.
lozzer
New member
How i see it is this is no longer a debate but an argument.I see Lenny you are too ignorant to listen what I'm saying and you have started to cough up petty insults.I have been reading and taking in what you have been saying and in most cases i agree.I wish you would do the same for me.
Cheers :cheers:
Cheers :cheers:
BeckyG
Making it up as I go
lozzer said:
If Lenny has insulted you, please quote it here. Ok, I'm waiting.
The only one who has coughed up an insult is you.
By calling him names, you are not proving your point, only proving that you don't have an argument to stand on. And he HAS been reading what you are saying. He even quoted you. Correctly I might add.lozzer said:
I'll give you a little heads up Lozzer, this isn't RepticZone. There are enough people on this forum who really know their stuff, and they are going to call you on what you post. You might want to stop presenting your personal opinion as if it were fact.
Lennycorn
Just see the truth
This site is a forum. A forum about corn snakes. An open areas where people can come together and learn, discuss, argue and debate. So if you can handle me debating/arguing with you…then stop…. stop posting on this subject. We both feel strongly about our views. And I can understand some of your “points”. But I do have a problem with you stating your views to inexperience thirteen year old. I have seen enough threads written by young members mistakenly mistreating there pets that view like your would be misconstrued. That is my main problem with you. Then you try to back up your view with….
“Yes but there has only been a few documented cases of one eating the other. And mostly because those people didn't know what they were doing. I know people who have been housing corns together for decades without and problems”
and
“The reason its so common in the UK is because there's alot of pet shops now telling new corn snake owners that they can house multiple corns without telling them what can happen and what they can do to lessen the chance of cannibalism.
I don't reccomend houseing together but it can be done without any problems”
So yes, you can say I am ignorant; I’m too ignorant to understand you.
But I don’t want a thirteen year old to think he understands.
Lozzer, if you could answer my questions from my last post, I will learn something new today but if not …….let it end here.
See ya at another debate.
Lennycorn
“Yes but there has only been a few documented cases of one eating the other. And mostly because those people didn't know what they were doing. I know people who have been housing corns together for decades without and problems”
and
“The reason its so common in the UK is because there's alot of pet shops now telling new corn snake owners that they can house multiple corns without telling them what can happen and what they can do to lessen the chance of cannibalism.
I don't reccomend houseing together but it can be done without any problems”
So yes, you can say I am ignorant; I’m too ignorant to understand you.
But I don’t want a thirteen year old to think he understands.
Lozzer, if you could answer my questions from my last post, I will learn something new today but if not …….let it end here.
See ya at another debate.
Lennycorn
E.Crassus
Note, its only a hobby
Right I want to sort a few things out here.
1. Lozzer may be 13 but he is a far better herper than most adults i know, he has been around reptiles since a very young age and any comment or advice he gives are always helpful.
2. I kept two corns together for 2 years and not once did I have a problem such as cannabalism. All I did was made sure that it was done properly so that no problems could occur, corn snakes are not naturally canabalistic like king snakes.
3. There are many things that ive seen Americans do that are wrong, I am not saying that British reptile keepers are perfect but we do seem to make far less mistakes than the American ones, and we dont bite other peoples heads off when someone makes a valid comment about something that they are doing which is working.
I recommened that everyone should watch their tongues in future so that posts like this dont need to occur and that views from herpers of all ages are respected and taken in and what may work for herpers like me and lozzer may not work for other people but that doesnt mean that arguements shoud occur over it.
I think that Lozzer is owed an apology and I hope that this situation can be sorted out.
1. Lozzer may be 13 but he is a far better herper than most adults i know, he has been around reptiles since a very young age and any comment or advice he gives are always helpful.
2. I kept two corns together for 2 years and not once did I have a problem such as cannabalism. All I did was made sure that it was done properly so that no problems could occur, corn snakes are not naturally canabalistic like king snakes.
3. There are many things that ive seen Americans do that are wrong, I am not saying that British reptile keepers are perfect but we do seem to make far less mistakes than the American ones, and we dont bite other peoples heads off when someone makes a valid comment about something that they are doing which is working.
I recommened that everyone should watch their tongues in future so that posts like this dont need to occur and that views from herpers of all ages are respected and taken in and what may work for herpers like me and lozzer may not work for other people but that doesnt mean that arguements shoud occur over it.
I think that Lozzer is owed an apology and I hope that this situation can be sorted out.
Roy Munson
New member
E.Crassus said:
I don't think anyone here owes you or Lozzer anything. (Just my opinion.)
shrimply
New member
I am also from the UK and after some of the pictures I have seen I must admit that I am unlikely to house snakes together. However I have always been around people that have kept them together successfully and usually write on UK based forum where a lot of people( very knowledgeable people ) house snakes together. I therefore am inclind to agree that it is possible. I have been reading this thread for a while now and was scared that I might get my head bitten of if I gave my opinion. However I couldn't help but notice that both sides are only taking the information they want to hear for Kathy Loves point of view.
What she actually says is that she doesn't do it but she thinks that after you know your snakes then it is possible. She also states that under certain circumstances she is not completely against doing it herself. Her warning is that NO hatchlings should be housed together although it is possible to house fully grown snakes together. Her final words are that people should be allowed to have their own decisions as long as they know all the info.
Maybe we should just leave it at that.
What she actually says is that she doesn't do it but she thinks that after you know your snakes then it is possible. She also states that under certain circumstances she is not completely against doing it herself. Her warning is that NO hatchlings should be housed together although it is possible to house fully grown snakes together. Her final words are that people should be allowed to have their own decisions as long as they know all the info.
Maybe we should just leave it at that.
BeckyG
Making it up as I go
Roy Munson said:
And I agree. This is the second forum I've been on with Lozzer, and for the year I've known him, he has consistently given out incorrect and misleading information, presenting personal opinion as if it were fact.
e.crassus said:
You must not know many adult herpers, then. And MANY people on this forum have kept reptiles for longer than Lozzer has been living. I've heard many comments and much advice (on the other forum) that he has give that is not helpful. You want an example? He once said that no one should use heat lamps because snakes get their heat from the earth, not the sky. DUH!!! I wonder what he thinks heats the earth? Here's a clue, it's that big lamp in the sky called the SUN!
e.crassus said:
If you were making sure things were done properly, you wouldn't have kept two corns together except for breeding. Cannibalism is only ONE thing that can go wrong keeping multiple snakes together. If you haven't had a problem, you were just lucky, then.
e.crassus said:
This is not a valid comment. It is nothing but a flame, and a thinly veiled attempt at name calling. First off, how would YOU know what mistakes American herpers make? Have you spent much time in America observing American herpers? Somehow I doubt it. Secondly, British people DO bite people's heads off (and stomp off forums in a temper tantrum when they don't get their way). I've seen it happen many a time. Finally, nobody bit lozzer's head off. Lenny was simply presenting facts in his side of the debate, and doing it calmly and rationally, I might add. Lozzer is the one who started the name calling and huffing when it seemed he couldn't win.
Lennycorn
Just see the truth
Hey Losmetros! You still there?? Great Post!
First of all.
This is not and in no way a US vs. UK. Period.
Next, Lozzer, Sorry you feel like you have to leave. It’s a shame you did present the facts about yourself and views. Didn’t mean for you to leave. Hey I got a idea, instead of leavening just put me on your ignore list. Everyone else does!
E.Crassus, This is the first time I’ve seen you post. Ok.
Things you want to sort out: Ok
1 Lozzer is a better herber than some adults and give out good advice. I’m Ok with that. but it is stated that he’s sixteen.
2 You keep corns together for two years and never had a problem because…..
“All I did was made sure that it was done properly so that no problems could occur,”
now this is where everyone get piss off.. I asking, You know, that problems could accrue and what proper step where taken???
Now just like Lozzer, you stated “you know problems could happen.”
So why tell an inexperience thirteen year old this. My thinking is … If you have to ask …you shouldn’t do it. Yes it can be done but …not without experience.
3. I agree with you.
Last part, Once again this is a forum and you will have argument especially on this topic.
Sorry, no apology for my views.
Next. Shrimply, I have seen some of your post and I have no problem. I agree with you! 00% on this statement.
“What she actually says is that she doesn't do it but she thinks that after you know your snakes then it is possible. She also states that under certain circumstances she is not completely against doing it herself. Her warning is that NO hatchlings should be housed together although it is possible to house fully grown snakes together. Her final words are that people should be allowed to have their own decisions as long as they know all the info.”
I just wish people would read this five or ten time.
Enjoy you day
Lennycorn
First of all.
This is not and in no way a US vs. UK. Period.
Next, Lozzer, Sorry you feel like you have to leave. It’s a shame you did present the facts about yourself and views. Didn’t mean for you to leave. Hey I got a idea, instead of leavening just put me on your ignore list. Everyone else does!
E.Crassus, This is the first time I’ve seen you post. Ok.
Things you want to sort out: Ok
1 Lozzer is a better herber than some adults and give out good advice. I’m Ok with that. but it is stated that he’s sixteen.
2 You keep corns together for two years and never had a problem because…..
“All I did was made sure that it was done properly so that no problems could occur,”
now this is where everyone get piss off.. I asking, You know, that problems could accrue and what proper step where taken???
Now just like Lozzer, you stated “you know problems could happen.”
So why tell an inexperience thirteen year old this. My thinking is … If you have to ask …you shouldn’t do it. Yes it can be done but …not without experience.
3. I agree with you.
Last part, Once again this is a forum and you will have argument especially on this topic.
Sorry, no apology for my views.
Next. Shrimply, I have seen some of your post and I have no problem. I agree with you! 00% on this statement.
“What she actually says is that she doesn't do it but she thinks that after you know your snakes then it is possible. She also states that under certain circumstances she is not completely against doing it herself. Her warning is that NO hatchlings should be housed together although it is possible to house fully grown snakes together. Her final words are that people should be allowed to have their own decisions as long as they know all the info.”
I just wish people would read this five or ten time.
Enjoy you day
Lennycorn
2i2_D3gr33s
I AM A:
I still say, No, never.
People here who think otherwise are nuts. It's like saying... "You can drive on the wrong side of the street, if you know what your doing.... or if you're a good driver." Whatever. Why take a chance that you don't have to? Aren't there enough important things to worry about than things you can completely avoid?
People here who think otherwise are nuts. It's like saying... "You can drive on the wrong side of the street, if you know what your doing.... or if you're a good driver." Whatever. Why take a chance that you don't have to? Aren't there enough important things to worry about than things you can completely avoid?
E.Crassus
Note, its only a hobby
ok, well I accept everybodies opinions, be they true correct facts that are widely known or things done by the individual.
I am a massive fan of the american corn snake market, the British one is far behind it in every aspect.
I think though that we can learn from each other, share out experiences be they good or bad so that we can learn from mistakes made and improve from things that have worked.
I understand where people are coming from about Lozzer, and he is a very passionate herper who is very strong in his beliefs.
I now do not keep corns together as I did hear of cannabalism and the ones i did keep together were 2 females that had been together for a long long time.
I have known Lozzer for just over a year and yes I can say that he does make mistakes but generally he does things by the corn snake "bible" ie: Bill and Kathy Loves book. His problem is that he has heard alot of things and he listens to other peoples opinions rather than fact.
I am offering an apology on behalf of both of us for our comments, lozzers for housing corns together and mine for criticising the american corn snake keeping ways.
This last comment is aimed at BeckyG: I do know alot of adult herpers, you may or may not of heard of Steve Gill, Mark Whitworth, Tanya Stevens and Nigel Gooding, all of whom have a big involvement with corn snakes, these are some of the top breeders in the UK for reptiles and the later of the four has praised Lozzer on numerous occasions and the 1st 2 and later have praised myself on my attitude to other keepers and my snake keeping knowledge. Lozzer is right in a way that snakes do get theyre heat from the ground, have you ever seen a floating basking rock that snakes use wen it is cool to absorb heat off, even if it has come from the sun, the sidwinder comes out at night in the deserts to get heat off the hot sand.
To point 2 I say that it was not a question of luck rather than using logic, ie: not feeding in the same cage, keeping seperate for at least an hour before returning to same cage after feeding, making sure the cage stays very clean etc.
and to point 3 if you would care to visit other reptiles forums and see some of the points American herpers have made, one american said that feeding corn snakes every 2 days is right and another said that he keeps his ball python with a corn snake, now tell me that these are right.
Happy new year to all corn snake keepers out there.
I am a massive fan of the american corn snake market, the British one is far behind it in every aspect.
I think though that we can learn from each other, share out experiences be they good or bad so that we can learn from mistakes made and improve from things that have worked.
I understand where people are coming from about Lozzer, and he is a very passionate herper who is very strong in his beliefs.
I now do not keep corns together as I did hear of cannabalism and the ones i did keep together were 2 females that had been together for a long long time.
I have known Lozzer for just over a year and yes I can say that he does make mistakes but generally he does things by the corn snake "bible" ie: Bill and Kathy Loves book. His problem is that he has heard alot of things and he listens to other peoples opinions rather than fact.
I am offering an apology on behalf of both of us for our comments, lozzers for housing corns together and mine for criticising the american corn snake keeping ways.
This last comment is aimed at BeckyG: I do know alot of adult herpers, you may or may not of heard of Steve Gill, Mark Whitworth, Tanya Stevens and Nigel Gooding, all of whom have a big involvement with corn snakes, these are some of the top breeders in the UK for reptiles and the later of the four has praised Lozzer on numerous occasions and the 1st 2 and later have praised myself on my attitude to other keepers and my snake keeping knowledge. Lozzer is right in a way that snakes do get theyre heat from the ground, have you ever seen a floating basking rock that snakes use wen it is cool to absorb heat off, even if it has come from the sun, the sidwinder comes out at night in the deserts to get heat off the hot sand.
To point 2 I say that it was not a question of luck rather than using logic, ie: not feeding in the same cage, keeping seperate for at least an hour before returning to same cage after feeding, making sure the cage stays very clean etc.
and to point 3 if you would care to visit other reptiles forums and see some of the points American herpers have made, one american said that feeding corn snakes every 2 days is right and another said that he keeps his ball python with a corn snake, now tell me that these are right.
Happy new year to all corn snake keepers out there.
Billybobob
very unactive member
E.Crassus said:
Yes he seems to give good info but from the post I have seen him make it seems like he just spews out the info from othere peoples post from this forum and from other forums (nearly word for word), I am not sure about this but that is how it seems to me. Oh and he is 16 by the way.
E.Crassus said:
That is great that you had no problems keeping your snakes together but lozzer was giving this info to a farly new snake keeper, and while i belive that corns can be cohabitated without problems if all precautions are taken, it should not be done by someone with out expirence because there are things that many new snake keepers will miss.
E.Crassus said:
First off there is 100 times more reptile keepers in America than there are in the U.K. so that means that there are 100 times more new keepers in America and that means that there will be more mistakes. The U.K. based forum that I used to visit had people saying that it is O.K. to feed corns wild caught mice, have said that all cornsnakes eat insects, and called Intermontana Emorys dwarf corns so I don't think that all U.K. herpers are as informed about these things as you might think (I mean no offence to all of the U.K. keepers that do know what they are talking about). As for U.K. keepers not biteing the head off of a person making a valid comment you should check out this thread: http://csftp.co.uk/corn/index.php?showtopic=4739. You have to be a member to view it.
Billybobob
very unactive member
Did not know there was a second page and that his post had already been addressed. I need to pay more attention.
cornmorphs
New member
lol, trust me thats a tame site. i use it, but anytime i 'go out of line' my stuff often gets deleted.
cant have a decent discussion without someone crying about it on any forums in the uk.
thing is, there isnt a million people that know what they are talking about either, most of them just think they do.
there are some really good people though too, just incase they all read this and start on me lol.
cant have a decent discussion without someone crying about it on any forums in the uk.
thing is, there isnt a million people that know what they are talking about either, most of them just think they do.
there are some really good people though too, just incase they all read this and start on me lol.
cornmorphs
New member
lol, just read that thread, all the good olds people eh? makes me laugh a treat.
great stuff
great stuff