Rat color question

[jaxom1957]

I have two young female rats, not breeders, just pets. Missa is obviously black-hooded, but I'm not sure what color Nell, the lighter rat, is. The breeder called her Siamese, but her color is so pale, I don't see any Himalayan markings, save the darker coloring toward the rear. Either pink eye dilute (champagne) or Himalayan? Anyone?

 

[jaxom1957]

Couple more pics:

 

[chausies]

from the pics, she looks like a young siamese. How old is she? It takes time for siamese to develop their markings, and poor siamese (or light markings) take longer to show up really well than good/dark markings. But siamese rats, and siamese mice, start off a creamy color before they get their points in. What color were her parents?

If she does not develop points in a few weeks or so, she could be a diluted fawn. I have a dilute fawn (the dilute gene can vary, in my case its mink and possibly blue at the same time) that looks almost like your girl.

 

[jaxom1957]

from the pics, she looks like a young siamese. How old is she? It takes time for siamese to develop their markings, and poor siamese (or light markings) take longer to show up really well than good/dark markings. But siamese rats, and siamese mice, start off a creamy color before they get their points in. What color were her parents?

She's just weaned; the breeder brought her over yesterday. She was handled daily until she was weaned so she'd be gentle and less frightened. At least one of the parents was Siamese. Are Siamese red-eyed?

 

[Jrgh17]

It's kinda hard to tell without some very good pictures, and usually seeing her as an actual adult. I would guess Champagne.

Try this site: http://www.dapper.com.au/whatrat.htm

It's one of the ones I've used.

 

[chausies]

yeah, siamese have red eyes. You can see a pics of adult siamese varieties at http://www.afrma.org/rataocp.htm or http://www.afrma.org/siameserat.htm . I checked the first link posted by Jrgh17 and for some reason, I didn't see any siamese rats there? Maybe the website has another page for patterned rats?

 

[jaxom1957]

It's kinda hard to tell without some very good pictures, and usually seeing her as an actual adult. I would guess Champagne.
Try this site: http://www.dapper.com.au/whatrat.htm
It's one of the ones I've used.

Great link, thanks! The breeder said at least one of the parents was Siamese, so I'm thinking she'll probably show her points as she matures. She is just weaned. I hadn't realized how much Missa had grown in the four weeks I'd had her until I got Nell, who seems half Missa's size.

If I'd known my friend Mac was raising rat feeders, I'd have had a couple pet girls months ago. I'd checked out the rats at Petco every couple of weeks for the past two years (the racks are right next to the feeder mice I was buying for my creamsicle before he switched to F/T), but they always had borderline adults, and I wanted to start with a youngster and raise her to be a pet. Just lucked into finding Missa, who couldn't have been more than eight or nine weeks old, and was the only baby in with at least twenty adults. She was tame right from the gate. Nell was handled daily from the time she was two weeks old, and is as sweet as pie.

 

[jaxom1957]

yeah, siamese have red eyes. You can see a pics of adult siamese varieties at http://www.afrma.org/rataocp.htm or http://www.afrma.org/siameserat.htm .

Excellent pics. The tailless Siamese on the second page looks nearly identical in color to Nell. Thanks! Nell should go well with my Siamese marked cat

 

[jaxom1957]

Male rat smell?

The reason I have two girls is my past experience with male mice. As a teenager, back in the stone age, I raised mice for my aunt's three pythons. I vividly recall the smell from the males, no matter how often I cleaned their lab cages. Do male rats have the same odor? Does the vanilla extract in water trick actually work? I wouldn't mind having 1.3, if the smell can be controlled. It would give me some live feeders with which to tempt my snakes that have been off feed for too long. The rats would be pets, primarily, but allowed to breed if they chose to do so. Any advice?

 

[chausies]

male rats are not known for the odor that male mice are known for. In my opinion, male rats don't smell bad. (I breed mice and I do acknowledge the odor of male mice )

 

[Flagg]

no, male rats don't have any excessive smell like male mice.

There is a distinct behavioral difference in male rats over females, females are very active and don't sit still while males tend to be lazier and just chill out.

Plus males are a lot larger than females, 1.5-2x the weight.

 

[Jrgh17]

The rats would be pets, primarily, but allowed to breed if they chose to do so. Any advice?

That is a BAD idea. You will end up with more feeders than you want. Your rats will breed at every chance they get. Think about it, if you have three females, each of which has an average of 8-12 babies every 21 days. Count on ~36 rats every 21 days, possibly many more. Unless you want to use them, or have a *lot* of homes set up for them, I would keep it to just girls.

Male rats do smell a bit more. I've never tried the vanilla trick.

 

[chausies]

I agree with Jenni that it could become a serious problem. If the male is left with the females, there will be a lot more babies than you need. But what you could do is get 2 male rats (so they have a buddy) and keep the boys separate, only introducing them to the girls when you need a litter? That would take a little advanced planning, but unless you have a petshop or other regular source to take rat babies, you might not want the hassle of baby rats every month. They will quickly eat you out of house and home, lol.

 

[jaxom1957]

That is a BAD idea. You will end up with more feeders than you want. Your rats will breed at every chance they get. Think about it, if you have three females, each of which has an average of 8-12 babies every 21 days. Count on ~36 rats every 21 days, possibly many more. Unless you want to use them, or have a *lot* of homes set up for them, I would keep it to just girls.

Oh, I'd be using them. I'd actually be pulling the pups and freezing them after euthanizing, leaving just one or two to reduce the chance of mastitis. I currently have 21 snakes, all of whom eat either mice or rats, from pinkies to adults. I do find the idea of a couple dozen rat pinks and fuzzies a month very appealing.

I spent much of my life on farms, and am not squeamish about killing feeder animals, even those I treated as pets. Ever have piglets named "Breakfast", "Lunch" and "Bacon"? I did :grin01: My rat setup is a 20 gal aquarium topped with a wire cage the same size as the aquarium. I think that would be plenty of room for a quad grouping.

Can male rats be introduced to the females at breeding time, rather than being housed together all of the time? That would at least allow a rein on the number and frequency of litters. I have no firm plans right now, other than enjoying the two females I already have. The rest is thoughts for the possible future.

 

[jaxom1957]

I agree with Jenni that it could become a serious problem. If the male is left with the females, there will be a lot more babies than you need. But what you could do is get 2 male rats (so they have a buddy) and keep the boys separate, only introducing them to the girls when you need a litter? That would take a little advanced planning, but unless you have a petshop or other regular source to take rat babies, you might not want the hassle of baby rats every month. They will quickly eat you out of house and home, lol.

Two males and three females would be fine by me, if the boys could be put with the girls for breeding. I have enough snakes that the pups wouldn't want for uses.

I'd only been familiar with one pet rat, a black-hooded my sister had when we were teenagers. Medina was always kept alone, but my sister had her out of her cage most of the time. It was only in reading the forums that I realized that rats and mice are generally communal, so made sure to find a friend for Missa not long after I bought her. If I buy a male and am not housing him with the girls, I would be sure to buy him a buddy.

 

[Jrgh17]

Can male rats be introduced to the females at breeding time, rather than being housed together all of the time? That would at least allow a rein on the number and frequency of litters. I have no firm plans right now, other than enjoying the two females I already have. The rest is thoughts for the possible future.

Ahhh... Okay. I missunderstood what you said, and thought it would be more of a "let's throw them together and see what happens" kind of thing. My apologies.

If you'd like to have them live apart, try waiting until the females are in heat to introduce the male. You'll know they're in heat when the females start mounting eachother. Also, their genitals become much more... uh... prominent. Some females also will *cough* present themselves if you scratch their lower back.

 

[Jrgh17]

BTW, in case you're wondering, I just started a 1.2 colony recently (after having rats for a bit in high school). I've had one small litter in which another male is the father, and my first in-colony litter is expected sometime this week.

I'm learning as I go along.

 

[jaxom1957]

Ahhh... Okay. I missunderstood what you said, and thought it would be more of a "let's throw them together and see what happens" kind of thing. My apologies.

S'awright I would be breeding solely to produce feeders, not for pets.

If you'd like to have them live apart, try waiting until the females are in heat to introduce the male. You'll know they're in heat when the females start mounting eachother. Also, their genitals become much more... uh... prominent. Some females also will *cough* present themselves if you scratch their lower back.

:roflmao: :roflmao: I have a Siamese cat that does that, too. So, the males can be introduced just at breeding? Cool. Something to give serious thought to, then.

 

[jaxom1957]

BTW, in case you're wondering, I just started a 1.2 colony recently (after having rats for a bit in high school). I've had one small litter in which another male is the father, and my first in-colony litter is expected sometime this week. I'm learning as I go along.

Same here. The breeder friend who gave me Nell is reducing her snake collection to allow more time for work and school, so has a surplus of rats. I'd be able to get the males and another female for nothing. I've bred and raised a host of different animals, including birds, cats, dogs, mice, goats, cattle, horses, fish... I've found that a lot of animal husbandry can be translated to other species. I love rat personalities, more the girls than the boys (lazy lumps of fur with a string attached )

 

[Jrgh17]

I love rat personalities, more the girls than the boys (lazy lumps of fur with a string attached )

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

That is *the* best description I've ever seen of a male rat.

My roomate asked for two boys from my first litter (which she's getting, of course). She likes them because they sit on her shoulders and groom themselves while she does homework.

Personally, I agree with you. I love the girls. It's amusing to watch them get into all sorts shennanighans.