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realistic breeding ages...

cka

memba
Sorry, this may not have been appropriate for this forum...I've seen more than a few posts here and elsewhere by folks stating they expect their 03's to go in 2005...and I'm pretty sure there were some two year old breeders this year...I know it's a matter of size but is anyone growing 300 gram females in two years?...the male's i can believe able to breed at two years, they dont need to be as big, but females at that size in two years?...for the record my 03' females just weighed in at 39 and 38 gms, and for the last 5 weeks have been on 2 8-10 gram rat pinks per week...unless they really put on over 250 gms between now and the end of '05 I dont see them laying their first clutches til 2007...just like to spark a little conversation on this...maybe I'm missing something, or just a real slow grower lol...peace...
 
I have some '03 males and females that will definitely be big enough to breed in 2005. I also have some that may not be big enough until 2007. I think it all depends on the genetics of the snake...some grow fast and some don't.
 
If it's the same with rats as with mice... Pinks aren't as nutricious as fuzzies. I've put 2 of my snakes or fuzzies a few weeks ago and they seem to grow faster on those. Mice are more nutricious as rats anyway. But i heard hamsters are even better. Just nasty little biters they are.
 
Jicin said:
Mice are more nutricious as rats anyway.

Jicin,

Actually rats have more of a nutritional content then mice...The best food you could feed your snakes nutrition wise is chicks...Here is a link that contains a breakdown of nutritional values for most feeder animals... :cheers:

Chris,

I have a few 03's that if they grow like they have been, they will be ready in 2005...Although I doubt I will breed them then due to age...I prefer to wait atleast 3 yrs to help the females get alittle bit more "mature"...
 
Really? How about pink rats compared to fuzzy mice? I don't quite understand how to read the chart.
 
Crude Protein % Crude Fat % Energy Content

55.9 23.6 5.25 For an adult mouse
44.2 30.1 6.65 For a fuzzy mouse
64.2 17.0 4.87 For a pink mouse

61.8 32.6 6.37 For an adult rat
56.1 27.5 5.55 For a fuzzy rat
57.9 23.7 5.30 For a pink rat


This is what I look at when determining the health content of the food I feed…The more crude protein and fat an animal has, the more the snakes can use to grow and develop….You also need to look at the energy content that each feeder animal has…More energy ,in my opinion, allows the snakes to be more active in converting the food in to the essentials that are needed….I could be wrong about this, but that is how I look at it…If you think about it, a snake that is fed rat pinks, fuzzies, and small rats tend to grow faster then a snake that is fed just mice…I believe the reason for this is because they are getting more protein, fat, and calcium from the larger bodied rats then the slender mice…This is just my opinion on the subject though…I hope that helps explain it alittle better…
 
*Scratches head*. An adult rat is like, 6 times an adult mice. An Anole seems a better choice if i read the chart right.
 
Drizzt _19,
would you mind adding the value of day old chicks to that chart.... it is very useful! thanks....
 
Jicin,

An adult rat is about 1.5 times an adult mouse...Yes anoles seem to be a better source of vitamins, but they are somewhat pricey...An anole usually runs about 5-7 bucks apiece, whereas a mouse or rat is anywhere from .50-3.00 bucks apiece...So based on prices I would stick to rats...

Cindy,

I am going to edit it to include day old chicks...I was gonna do it the first time but tottaly forgot...LOL...Gimme a few minutes to update it...
 
Back to weights/ages for breeding...

I had 2 females that were probably big enough to breed this past spring as they both formed follicles, thankfully they absorbed them rather than laying slugs. Both were 2002s and were approx 230 grams each. Since they were below the recommended weight, I decided to wait until next spring to breed them, however, even the smallest one, I was told by two local breeders, was big enough to breed and if she were their snake, she would have been bred.

I also have a proven breeder that I bought from Rich Z. this February. When I opened up the shipping box to get her out, she was VERY skinny. She was about 3.5 feet long but only weighed in at 200 grams. After feeding her as often as I could, I decided to breed her anyway, since she was proven. She did well and gave me 2 clutches of a total of 23 eggs (21 good eggs). At her heaviest, with eggs, she was only a few grams over 300 grams. I had been planning on giving her the year off next spring, but I've kept feeding her heavily and it looks like she will be up to a good weight even before she goes into brumation later this year.

I think some breeders do wait until the snake is 300 grams to breed them, others, I think only use the look of the female. If she looks healthy and big enough to breed she will be bred. Remember, not all breeders love their snakes like we do. Some I'm sure only look at them as ways to get more snakes and while they don't want their females to die, they don't care if the snake has reached her optimum weight before breeding her.
 
you guys are feeding cornsnakes right?

remember the saying "THE MORE YOU READ, THE LESS YOU BREED"? Live it........Learn it...........Love it!
 
i cant feel my skull...

"Live it, learn it, love it..."

uhhhh....thanks Brad...

Peace everyone; Thanks for the info and neat info Driz'zt on the prey item content...


Spicoli
 
Some I'm sure only look at them as ways to get more snakes and while they don't want their females to die, they don't care if the snake has reached her optimum weight before breeding her.

Keep in mind, optimum weight is a relative thing and 300 grams is a number set by humans, not the snake. I've had snakes that never reached 300 grams (even males who never had breeding stress to slow them down). Fed to capacity, some are just smaller statured snakes. Time to adulthood is also very variable. Depends on the genetics of the snake and your feeding schedule. Some are just monsters. Some seem to never grow despite eating well.

As to age to reach breeding size, we've got a yearling here who weighs over 250 grams. According to her breeder, she's just always been a garbage disposal, and I can attest to that. She'd eat a cow if you threw it in there. I've also got a 4 year old that is only 220 grams. I doubt she'll ever get much bigger.

Over 36 inches, great, over 300 grams beautiful. ...but remember it's an individual thing. Know your snake and their health. Make sure they're well fed, but not obese. If you do have a smaller snake bred, it's best to exercise them so when the time comes, they have some muscle tone to expel the eggs. Alot of egg-binding comes from "cage potatoes" not having the muscle tone to finish the job. When you only have to crawl out from under your hide once weekly to inhale a dead mouse...you don't build up much muscle.

I saw a huge snow a couple shows back. I didn't even ask if it was male or female, but this poor snake looked like a ball python. It was so obese that its skin wrinkled whereever the body bent. It looked stretched to capacity and bloated. If that is a female...I'd bet dollars to donuts she'd egg-bind long before a healthy, active, 200 grammer. I'm not advocating breeding all your snakes at 200 grams, just trying to say that there are other things to look at than just the weight of the snake.

You want a strong snake with good muscle tone and a nice bread-loaf cross-sectional shape. No triangle snakes with their backbones sticking out, no severely obese females. I'd love for all my females to be over 300 grams, but that's not always possible, especially with the smaller kids like some of the Miamis. Flying their meals so they strike and constrict gives them some exercise. Just getting them out and letting them crawl over you helps. Having an exercise cage that you rotate them through so they have new area to explore and branches to climb on helps. As to the weight, if in doubt, it's always better to wait that extra year. If you do go ahead and breed them, keep them active, keep them healthy.
 
Thanks Hurley, excellent points...I'm thinking I must have all of the "slow growing" genes in my group of corns lol, but I've always fed at a slower rate too, so no concerns...just like to get a different view on things, and always looking to learn more...again, thanks all...
 
Hurley said:
I've also got a 4 year old that is only 220 grams. I doubt she'll ever get much bigger.

I'd love for all my females to be over 300 grams, but that's not always possible, especially with the smaller kids like some of the Miamis.

I don't think my one female is ever going to get any bigger either. She's currentlly 6 years old and at the largest I've had her (withouth a ton of eggs in her) at 240 grams. She's also looks quite miami-ish. I never even thought about locality being a factor, just totally slipped my mind.
 
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