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Seperating pregnant mice...

kiaya611

More is better...
I have a cage with 1.3. After the females are pregnant, do you seperate them (either together of seperately) away from the male (or for that matter, other females)? The reason I ask this is that this morning, I noticed that one of the females gave birth during the night ...BUT both of the pinkies were partially eaten:eek1:. I obviously should have seperated them sooner. I would like to know if you need a cage per pregnant mouse?

I have put the other noticebaly pregnant mouse in her own cage.

I would just like to know if I need to get enough cages for each female when they are pregnant.

I would appreciate your advise .
 
Well usually you wouldn't need to seperate them. In some cases you have females partially eat their young. Just a pecking order thing. But if the male is fine in the cage and not eating the young. I'd say its ok to leave him in there.

Personally if we had to seperate pregnant females. well we wouldn't have colonies. We'd have a Birthing rooms... :crazy02:
 
Usually it is not necessary to separate the pregnant females to give birth .
In fact , they are fertile the first 4 hours ofter having babies . So when there is not a male , you will have to wait longer for your next nest .
Eating their babies can have several reasons :
- sometimes it only happens the first time they have youngs
- when the male eats or kills the young mice because the female was already pregnant from another male and he doesn't accept the young ones . This can happen when you have more then 1 male in the cage . After killing the babies it is possible the female eat them
- another reason can be a lack of protein in the food of the mice , when you give only grains , bread instead of special micepellets . You can compensate that with giving some dry dogfood.
When it keeps occurring , you have to find out who is the criminal in the cage and put it in deathrow .
I hope this will help you to get more babymice left over . :crazy02:
 
You seperated one of the females off the colony?

If I were you I would put her back~ pretty quickly too.

Mice have a pretty nasty social system. If the colony forgets who that female is~ or just decides she has been out too long and the current alpha's prefer she not come back~ they are more likely than not to kill her when you put her back in. I've heard of people moving mice around to "birthing tanks" successfully~ but not often. This is a practice better served in Rats~ which are more socially forgiving than mice.

Put the female back.
Hope she does better with her litter.
If the new litter gets eaten too, spend some time watching the mice colony and see if you can figure out who the cannibal is~ remove the cannibal from the colony~ feed it to a snake.
 
If the male is the father, then I would leave them all together. I didn't seperate my 1:2 colony when the moms had litters. They had litters a few days apart and after the second birth the babies were all mixed up in the same nest and both moms fed all the babies. The dad hung out in the nest sometimes, but usually he was off by himself. Out of 17 babies, I only lost 1 to cannibalism, so it was probably a mutant/deformed/sick or whatever. The others grew fast and are now safely tucked away in the freezer awaiting the bellies of my snakes.
 
Ok...I put them all together again...they were only seperated for a few hours today. I feed them Kay-tee Mouse, Rat and Hamster Forti-diet and also give them some of my parrot food...they seem to really like that. I didn't think of giving them dog food as well. I have plenty of that with 3 dogs here.

It is hard to watch them (as I might a pet mouse) as they are in the garage and I usually go in there just to feed them, service the cage and check on things. I have only had them approx. 3 weeks, so this was the first babies that I have had. I know that one of the other females is very pregnant and I am not sure about the 3rd. I know that there is only one male. I really don't think that any of them wer pregnant before I got them. If they were, they were not far along at all.

I will give this a try and just watch.

Thank you for all of your advice.
 
I have been separating my mice when pregnant and they don't kill the females when I put them back. I guess I've been lucky. I have a group of 1.4. Two of the girls are really bad about eating everyone elses babies, but not their own :shrugs: . I guess what ever works.
 
Female mice will also eat their babies if they are threatened... I found that out the hard way with my first 14 litters.. 10 of them were devoured by their mothers. Its kind of a weird thing... its a "I'll eat them now, so YOU can't eat them later!" kind of theory. I don't EVER leave the male in with the babies, I've lost 1000s of pinks from doing this ~,~ Its normal for male mice to eat the pups.. theres an excelent National Geographic documentary on why male mice do this... it also talks about why females eat their own pups too. If you have a decent library, they should have this on CD or DVD.
 
Gintha said:
I don't EVER leave the male in with the babies, I've lost 1000s of pinks from doing this ~,~ Its normal for male mice to eat the pups
Sorry, I have to strongly disagree with you here. Currently we are running 30+ colonies ranging from 1.4 to 1.10 and we NEVER remove any males.

We have the ocassional canibalized pink but nothing even remotely frequent.
 
Please provide the title of the National Geographic documentary~ I want to see it. Are you sure they were discussing the common mouse ~ Mus Musculus ~ and not some other member of the rodent family?

In my somewhat limited experience (4 ½ years) male mice *generally* are helpful in rearing the pups AND separating member of a colony *generally* means lower production and sometimes the destruction of the entire colony when they attempt to kill the “outsider.”
 
Ooo..too bad my local library is so backwoodsish they probably don't have that video.

I just have to sit here and think about who has the time to go through and remove the male from the colonies after he's done his job. And where all of those male mice go, cause they can't go together in a "bachelor pad". Especially from someone who has a "ledger" of records for their mice. =P

Maybe I'm just lazy, but I don't count per month how many per colony...if they produce, great...if not, snake food. Simplistic view for me that works.

Doing all of that separating and reintroducing sounds like a whole hell of a lot of mediation and conflict avoidance to me. ;)

Not to mention, mice are social oriented creatures. They like to cuddle and preen each other. I've had solitary males get extremely aggressive to the point they'd rather bite a female than mate with her.

I'm with JM, I've got a somewhat limited mouse raising experience...4 years or so. But *generally* my male mice are no problem with babies, its the females who've done more damage.

I've only had a couple of instances of male cannibalization of babies. One was a week after a new male had been introduced and a female gave birth to babies that obviously weren't his. He never did it again. Another was a younger male I was raising up with his colony to separate out to create a new colony, and after the second litter he'd been around he just snapped and killed every baby. Never ate them, just bit the head and left them.

For me, the shuffling around of group members just causes way more headaches than they could ever cause by eating a few babies. I'd rather lose a couple pinks than a prized male by being castrated by the females.

From my experience, most of the cannibalization of live pinks is by the newer mothers eating the placenta, following up the umbilical cord and not stopping. Other than that, most generally cannibalization I've seen is of stillborn offspring. That's where it really helps to have at least one older female in a new colony, she helps with the birthing and reduces that chance of cannibalization by doing whats supposed to be done.

I've even separated out extremely stressed females into a quiet box for the birthing for a few hours, and the stress of the move and everything never caused them to eat their babies. I think some mice are just more prone to it than others. :shrugs:

Every once in a great while I'll have the mentally deranged female snacking on another female's newborns, but that's rare and doesn't last past when I witness it. Instant snake meal, gut loaded and all.

Rats on the other hand are far more forgiving. Something I've always found ironic. Rats can be ruthless critters, but more often than not, I've not had much of a problem with new member introduction than just the standard "pecking order initiation". After a few hours, they're all cuddled up together.
 
My males are all housed in separate homes, and the breeding is selective, I chose the male and the female and give them 1 day to breed, but I breed cause I like it.. not for food. I house all the famles together, even the pregnant and non pregnant, and I have yet o see a female eat another females pups. I have seen comunal care tho.. one mother will take over other females pups while the other female is eating or sleeping hehe.. its cute =) My rats are housed in the same fashion, and right now my big momma rat is actually taking care of her pups and some squirrel pups too hehe. One of my exs kids shot a squirrel, and it had babies... so we put them in with the rats, and the rats took over... and the little brat got a spanking and is grounded till hes 47... and he thinks I'm joking about the 47 part... *grumbles* hes at least grounded till hes bigger than me!
 
Yes common mice hehe.. I've been breeding them for 15 years, and am currently working with 3 other breeders to write a book on basic mouse breeding. I also breed rats, but only for 5 years, pretty much the same deal, but rats are much more loving, my male rats DO live in the hovels with the females.
 
I've been looking for the National Geographic program you reference. I can't find the program on Mus Musculus you reference. Could you please refer me to a link or title of the episode?

Thanks
 
I can try to find the link for you tomorrow night.. need sleep right now. Should be home at.. erm...9-11 EST tomorrow night. Toss me a PM tomorrow evening so I remember =)
 
What is the name of the National Geographic program you referenced as support of your position that mouse colonies should be re-arranged on a regular basis??

Thanks
 
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