Siren's Dreaded Puff

[HeFraJones]

Hello Everyone,

I have followed this forum loosely from time to time but I have finally joined because I can't find any answers for my current situation.

I have a lovely 4 year old female Hypomelanistic Upper Keys corn. She is a sweet as can be. I have had her since she was a 6" wormy. Her health background is pretty good. She has always been a great eater, she is notably strong but not overweight. Her demeanor has always been very sweet and pretty relaxed. As a baby, I socialized her extremely well. As she has gotten older (and I have gotten busier) I haven't always been as attentive as I used to be (but by no means neglectful). She has only had a few bad sheds in the past.

One particularly bad shed happened last June. She had an incredibly patchy shed, which I helped her with. Since then, I have noticed that she has a "puff". Anytime she might be surprised or simply very active, I might hear this sound. Again, it is some sort of puff/whistle. She barely even opens her mouth and it is very quick. Of course, when I first heard this sound I took her to the vet who checked her out thoroughly. He said she looked really great and that he could find no signs of any sort of infection or outstanding issue. He just told me to keep an eye on her, which I do. This being said, she still eats regularly and doesnt have any apparent changes to her.

This year, about a month ago, right before a shed- she started dropping her jaw here and there. She has never held her mouth that way before, but I felt fairly confident it was related to her being about to shed. As I expected, the jaw dropping went away after her shed but I still thought it would be best to go for another vet check up (to also check back in on the damn puff). Like last time, the vet could find no real problems with her. She did recognize that the whistle puff was totally not normal but also couldnt find any sign of real worry. She is now about to go into shed two of the month (and actually just refused food for the first time, which I do not feel too concerned about since she is going through another shed in such little time???)

What is going on here? Ultimately, I know this issue can't be that severe if she has had this symptom and not declined in health in over a year. I apologize for the length, but this problem has really stumped me and the vets it seems. I thought perhaps that bad shed a year ago left one of her nasal passages blocked? But this is the only idea I can come up with.

Thanks for taking the time to read all this if you are still with me!

All the best xoxo

 

[hypnoctopus]

That sounds very much shed-related. Sometimes a bit of old skin gets stuck in their nostrils, especially after a bad shed, and it makes a clicking noise occasionally when they breathe. I've only ever noticed it with snakes that are about to shed, and then it goes away once they shed, but I definitely think it could be related to a poor shed. I've also had a snake that would have a bit of a mouth gape prior to shedding that always went away once he shed.

I would make up a humid hide for her when you notice her going blue. It's pretty simple to make, just damp sphagnum moss or orchid moss stuffed inside a hide or a container that has a hole big enough to get in and out of. You can leave it in her enclosure until after she sheds. If you are using a heat lamp to heat the enclosure, it may be drying out the air too much and causing shed issues.

When she does have a bad shed, I strongly recommend you help her get any remaining pieces off. The best way to do this without hurting her or freaking her out too badly is to let her slither through a damp room temperature washcloth as you apply gentle pressure to her body. Really pay attention to the eye caps and tail tip to make sure those pieces come off.

I wouldn't worry about her refusing food. It's pretty common for them to refuse food during a shed cycle, and I never even offer food while blue, since it can result in a regurge.

 

[HeFraJones]

Thank you so much for responding. I would feel less concerned if it was only prior to sheds, but that sound has happened regularly since the bad shed last year. I only hope that there is nothing severely damaged in her nostril. Vet said nostrils appeared to be healthy.

I think I will start doing a humid hide or maybe some regular soaking. She has never been a soaker. I try to keep the humidity at a medium level, but it is also quite hot.

Another idea I had, was perhaps it is a stress related noise? Unfortunately, I live in New York City by a train platform. I moved to this apt last summer around the beginning of the bad shed. Perhaps it is all related or perhaps I am blindly grasping at ideas at this point.

 

[axis1]

Thank you so much for responding. I would feel less concerned if it was only prior to sheds, but that sound has happened regularly since the bad shed last year. I only hope that there is nothing severely damaged in her nostril. Vet said nostrils appeared to be healthy.

I think I will start doing a humid hide or maybe some regular soaking. She has never been a soaker. I try to keep the humidity at a medium level, but it is also quite hot.

Another idea I had, was perhaps it is a stress related noise? Unfortunately, I live in New York City by a train platform. I moved to this apt last summer around the beginning of the bad shed. Perhaps it is all related or perhaps I am blindly grasping at ideas at this point.

Hi there HeFraJones! How ya been?

Not too many New Yorkers here, so it's nice to see one, and I don't know WHY, but ESPECIALLY nice to see a snake lover from NYC who lives near a subway line. I don't live by an elevated train, but live in Brooklyn on the border of Gravesend & Bensonhurst three stops from Coney Island on the N line and it runs right behind my house but is below street level, though it's still outdoors, so every half hour or so, there is an audible rumble that you can actually FEEL from my bedroom. I always thought it was romantic, though my wife thinks I'm nuts, but I've been here 17 years and ALWAYS sleep like a baby! I've lived in places like the Lower East Side of Manhattan (Houston Street) and the South Bronx where nighttime noises included rapid automatic weapon fire, so a rumbling train is kinda soothing in comparison! (That neighborhood I lived in in the Bronx was so poor that after a rainstorm, even the rainbow was in Black & White!!) :crazy01:

That being said, once your snake gets used to the rumble from the train, I doubt it's an issue because they can't hear so it's probably just a matter of adapting. However, you mentioned shedding twice in one month and refusing food, so I was just thinking: is it possible your snake is gravid? Female snakes that are well-fed sometimes lay eggs even if they're not fertilized. I know it's a tad late in the year now but it's possible. You should let her run through your fingers and check for that string-of-pearls feel that gravid corns may have.

Just a suggestion. If your vet can't find a reason for the sound she's making, then I'm at a loss. But my female snake made a similar sound (a clicking sound but she had a sporadically puffed throat also) when she was gravid that was due to excessive burrowing (trying to find a nest or place to lay eggs) in substrate that was powdery at the time.

In any event, welcome again and I sincerely hope you discover what might be ailing your little sneaky one!!

 

[Nanci]

This is the second time this week that I have to say...snakes can hear.

You could take her to the vet and have him listen to her lung and do a sinus exam. Then you'd know. Just an exam fee shouldn't be much- certainly under $100, maybe under $50.

 

[axis1]

This is the second time this week that I have to say...snakes can hear.

You could take her to the vet and have him listen to her lung and do a sinus exam. Then you'd know. Just an exam fee shouldn't be much- certainly under $100, maybe under $50.

Hi Nanci! How ya been?

Really interested in your statement that snakes can "hear." Do you mean that their ears actually hear sound, like if I yell at my snakes, they can hear me? I thought that snakes only sensed (though hearing IS one of the senses) sound through vibrations, which is more tactile than auditory. When people say they smell through their tongues, I know that is actually only half-true and that snakes have sensors and actual glands dedicated to smell & scent. Many times when feeding my snakes, since the rodents are dead, I notice that they sometimes don't strike until their tongues flick and actually touch the rodent to ensure it IS a rodent because it is not moving like one normally does.

Not trying to be funny or facetious in any way. I'm a snake owner for over 4 decades and will NEVER be too old or experienced to learn. In addition, what YOU say carries significant weight, therefore, I'm really interested (more than curious!) to know if a snake's "hearing" is a tactile or auditory sense.

 

[Nanci]

Link 1

In order to test the hypothesis that snakes can not only perceive airborne sounds, but also respond to them, an acoustic isolation chamber was designed and constructed to perform best within the 150-450 Hz range in which snakes perceive sound. Suspended within this acoustic chamber was a steel mesh basket designed to minimize the potential for groundborne vibrations. A synthesized tone was created out of 20 different 150 ms sounds, each separated by a 50 ms period of silence; the acoustic energy of each of the 20 sounds was concentrated between 200-400 Hz, and each sound included frequency modulation. The trial stimuli were presented to western diamondback rattlesnakes Crotalus atrox at a level 5-10 dB above their perception threshold. Four significant behavioural responses were observed upon stimulus presentation: cessation of body movements, reduction or cessation of tongue flicking, rapid jerks of the head and rattling. At least one significant behavioural response was observed in 92% of the behavioural trials. This study provides the first experimental evidence that snakes can respond behaviourally to airborne sounds.

 

[Nanci]

Link 2

Playing sounds ranging in pitch from 80 to 1000 Hz at volumes between 50 and 110 dB re. 20 μPa to 11 royal pythons, Christensen recorded electrical responses in one of the snakes' cranial nerves and their brain stems. Increasing the sound volume until he recorded a measurable electrical signal in the brain stem, Christensen found that the snakes could hear very loud airborne sound (10,000 times louder than the softest sounds heard by people). They were also most sensitive to low frequencies between 80 to 160 Hz and their sensitivity decreased at higher frequencies, falling from 78 dB re. 20 μPa at 160 Hz to 96 dB re. 20 μPa at 800 Hz.

But how were the sounds transmitted to the snake's vibration-sensitive inner ear? As low-frequency sounds are efficiently carried by solid materials, the team wondered whether sound vibrations might be transmitted from the ground into the snake's body.

Christensen measured vibrations generated in the surface upon which the snakes were lying by a loudspeaker suspended above the platform. Meanwhile, he recorded the animals' auditory electrical response to the vibrations. He found that the animals responded well to 80 Hz vibrations, but at higher frequencies, the vibrations produced in the surface by the airborne sound were too weak for the snake to respond.

So, how were the snakes able to sense the higher pitched sounds that they hear? ‘Some suggested that they could use the lung as fish use the swim bladder. Also, we humans still hear by bone conduction in water, that would be another way of sending the sound’, says Christensen. So the team decided to test whether the animals could sense their own skulls' vibrating in response to airborne sounds.

Attaching minute vibrometers to the snakes' heads, Christensen measured the mechanical vibrations induced in the head by loud airborne sounds that were just above the snakes' hearing thresholds. He found that these skull vibrations were the same intensity as the minimum mechanical vibrations that the animals could sense. So instead of responding to sound pressure, snakes respond to vibrations transmitted directly from the air to the skeleton.

 

[Nanci]

Link 3


Conclusions

We conclude that pythons, and possibly all snakes, can hear, but that they lost effective pressure hearing with the loss of a functional outer and middle ear. Instead, snakes have maintained or developed vibration sensitivity as good as that found in any terrestrial vertebrate, enabling them to maintain insensitive sound detection via sound-induced head vibrations. The loss of effective pressure hearing is reinforced by the observation that the same sensory cells detect both substrate vibrations and aerial sounds (Hartline, 1971).



The high thresholds to sound pressure measured in the present study suggest that sound-pressure hearing may be of little biological relevance to pythons in the detection of prey or predators, or in interspecific communication. Usually, the frequency of maximum sensitivity of the audiogram matches the peak energy of vocalizations, but in snakes the maximum sensitivity is at much lower frequencies than their sound production (Young, 2003). The peak energy of snake sounds seems to match the sensitivity of lizards (Brittan-Powell et al., 2010), perhaps as a relic from the nearest common ancestor of these two groups. Therefore, snake vocalizations are likely directed at mammalian or bird predators and not towards other snakes. This further implies that snakes, with the loss of the tympanic middle ear, may also have lost the ability to communicate with conspecifics by means of sound pressure. Their high vibration sensitivity, however, enables them to sense vibrations at very low levels, which likely serves a function in communication and for detecting predators and prey.

 

[Amanda47]

I have a 10 year old corn that occasionally puffs, whistles, wheezes, and lies around with her mouth hanging open. The vet says there's no health problems. The best I can do is try to figure out a pattern with mine.

It seems to happen when the snake's cold, like in the winter when it's colder in my apartment. It could also be a humidity issue, or a combination of both. This "pattern" is the most consistent. She rarely puffs or anything else during the summers.

When she's agitated, like during handling sometimes, or when I'm moving around her enclosure. Or when I'm moving around her while she's out roaming.

The wheezing and open mouth also seemed to be worse when she was heavier (1000 grams). At 850g now, it's not as bad. Or she's just gotten used to me...

So I don't know how helpful that is for you (it's barely helpful to me!), but I'm familiar with what you're dealing with :shrugs:

 

[axis1]

Wow!

Hey Nanci!! How ya been?

Thank you for those very interesting and thought-provoking articles which is actually the empirical research I would require to believe something like that. I saw something in the REPTILE TIMES that is another scholarly piece which indicate that snakes CAN hear. However, the slight difference between actual HEARING & SENSING was eloquently quoted in the TIMES piece by the author's statement, "They may not be able to hear the range of audible frequencies that we can, but they can sense sound in a way that is alien to us." The link to this article is here:

https://thereptiletimes.wordpress.c...hear-sound-detection-in-serpents-august-2013/

So from all of this, can we effectively gather that snakes can sense audible frequencies through a series of processes and parts in their head that are somewhat related to what USED to be a functioning inner & outer ear? I guess that it can be argued that they CAN actually HEAR. However, in my very limited grey matter, I will probably always frame this concept as the ability to sense vibrations rather than call out my little sneaky ones' names the next time I walk into my snake room.

However, thanx for taking the time to provide these links and the effort to post them sequentially as I WILL save them to refer to during my future discussions surrounding this extremely interesting herpetological phenomenon. You are AWESOME!!!!

Thanx again!!

 

[Nanci]

What do you think sound waves are when they hit our ears?

 

[HeFraJones]

Hi there HeFraJones! How ya been?

Not too many New Yorkers here, so it's nice to see one, and I don't know WHY, but ESPECIALLY nice to see a snake lover from NYC who lives near a subway line. I don't live by an elevated train, but live in Brooklyn on the border of Gravesend & Bensonhurst three stops from Coney Island on the N line and it runs right behind my house but is below street level, though it's still outdoors, so every half hour or so, there is an audible rumble that you can actually FEEL from my bedroom. I always thought it was romantic, though my wife thinks I'm nuts, but I've been here 17 years and ALWAYS sleep like a baby! I've lived in places like the Lower East Side of Manhattan (Houston Street) and the South Bronx where nighttime noises included rapid automatic weapon fire, so a rumbling train is kinda soothing in comparison! (That neighborhood I lived in in the Bronx was so poor that after a rainstorm, even the rainbow was in Black & White!!) :crazy01:

That being said, once your snake gets used to the rumble from the train, I doubt it's an issue because they can't hear so it's probably just a matter of adapting. However, you mentioned shedding twice in one month and refusing food, so I was just thinking: is it possible your snake is gravid? Female snakes that are well-fed sometimes lay eggs even if they're not fertilized. I know it's a tad late in the year now but it's possible. You should let her run through your fingers and check for that string-of-pearls feel that gravid corns may have.

Just a suggestion. If your vet can't find a reason for the sound she's making, then I'm at a loss. But my female snake made a similar sound (a clicking sound but she had a sporadically puffed throat also) when she was gravid that was due to excessive burrowing (trying to find a nest or place to lay eggs) in substrate that was powdery at the time.

In any event, welcome again and I sincerely hope you discover what might be ailing your little sneaky one!!

Hi There! Thanks for your response. I know absolutely nothing about gravid females. I suppose that is lame of me, since I have a female but I never intended for her to reproduce. Would you mind explaining a little more about what being gravid means and also how it could happen to an unfertilized female? Additionally, could it be that she is just growing more quickly with the huge heat wave? I guess that might sound silly. I really just don't know. I just went to check on her and she is completely pale with her blue eyes. She looks completely normal for when she is about to shed BUT again she has her mouth hanging agape (not an issue when she isnt about a shed...) How odd.

Another question - do you have an NYC vet? I go to avian and aquatic on upper west side but they have not found anything wrong with her and her symptoms havent really changed.

Thanks again!!

 

[HeFraJones]

This is the second time this week that I have to say...snakes can hear.

You could take her to the vet and have him listen to her lung and do a sinus exam. Then you'd know. Just an exam fee shouldn't be much- certainly under $100, maybe under $50.

Hi Nanci,

Thanks for your response! I have never doubted that she could hear the train/feel it also. What I question is: is if it might cause major distress that could lead to her odd puffing? Is she constantly stressed because of this noise? Does stress lead to a sound such as this? Etc.

As far as the vet.. I have taken her once last year and once this year and they have checked her out... Unfortunately with Siren being my first snake, I dont have a comparison as to how thorough they might be as opposed to another vet. She is going through shed #2 of the month. I am going to let her shed then I will call and inquire about a specific sinus exam. I do truly feel like this must be related to her sinuses/a blockage of some kind....

Thank you again for responding (especially with the enlightening bit about hearing, how cool!)

 

[HeFraJones]

I have a 10 year old corn that occasionally puffs, whistles, wheezes, and lies around with her mouth hanging open. The vet says there's no health problems. The best I can do is try to figure out a pattern with mine.

It seems to happen when the snake's cold, like in the winter when it's colder in my apartment. It could also be a humidity issue, or a combination of both. This "pattern" is the most consistent. She rarely puffs or anything else during the summers.

When she's agitated, like during handling sometimes, or when I'm moving around her enclosure. Or when I'm moving around her while she's out roaming.

The wheezing and open mouth also seemed to be worse when she was heavier (1000 grams). At 850g now, it's not as bad. Or she's just gotten used to me...

So I don't know how helpful that is for you (it's barely helpful to me!), but I'm familiar with what you're dealing with :shrugs:

thank you for responding to this post! I am so releived to know that I am not the only one with an issue like this. As far as patterns - I think I am somewhat stumped. The whistle/puff comes if she is startled or being very active. This tells me it could be related to a fast breath through the nose? The gaping mouth is a new development within in the past month and a half... it has happened before her shed.

I feel a little desperate here. What humidity do you keep your snake at?

 

[axis1]

What do you think sound waves are when they hit our ears?

I understand sound waves are vibrations. However, my question or confusion as to even whether there IS a question or not has to do with a snake's ability to hear: do they actually HEAR (i.e., in the AUDITORY sense) or FEEL (i.e., in the TACTILE sense) a vibration or frequency?

If the answer is they can hear (FEEL the vibration), I guess I'm OK with it because I can understand it in the same way that I can understand their sense of smell (i.e., in the OLFACTORY sense) through their tongue (i.e., which in humans is the GUSTATORY sense).

I hope this makes sense (i.e., in the LOGICAL sense)! :eek1:

 

[axis1]

Hi There! Thanks for your response. I know absolutely nothing about gravid females. I suppose that is lame of me, since I have a female but I never intended for her to reproduce. Would you mind explaining a little more about what being gravid means and also how it could happen to an unfertilized female? Additionally, could it be that she is just growing more quickly with the huge heat wave? I guess that might sound silly. I really just don't know. I just went to check on her and she is completely pale with her blue eyes. She looks completely normal for when she is about to shed BUT again she has her mouth hanging agape (not an issue when she isnt about a shed...) How odd.

Another question - do you have an NYC vet? I go to avian and aquatic on upper west side but they have not found anything wrong with her and her symptoms havent really changed.

Thanks again!!

I do have a NYC vet but she is near Avenue V & McDonald Avenue in Brooklyn. If you are interested, I can give you her contact info but it's kinda far from Manhattan and closer to Coney Island.

I have to tell you that what you're describing sounds eerily like your snake IS gravid (meaning pregnant with eggs) though I am one of the few whose snake actually laid eggs (that I KNOW of) with her mouth agape! She had that zombie-look as if she were in a trance! The normal way to tell if your snake is gravid is to let her slide through your hands while applying a very slight pressure on her, from halfway down her length (beginning at the middle of her, lengthwise) all the way down to the base of where her tail begins. As she's sliding through, if you press (lightly! Don't SQUEEZE the CRAP outta her!) while she's sliding through, IF she's gravid or full of eggs, you will feel the bumps which as she's going will feel similar to a string-of-pearls! However, if her mouth is currently open and her eyes cloudy or like she's in a trance, she MAY be in the middle of trying to lay them IF she is gravid, that is. In that case, you should provide a Tupperware or similar container with damp or moist sphagnum moss or some other medium which will retain humidity. Has she been burrowing excessively? You mentioned she shed twice in a month (gravid snakes shed shortly before laying, though mine didn't until AFTER she shed - sometimes, they just don't DO IT ACCORDING TO A BOOK!). You also mentioned she refused food (gravid females rarely eat the month they lay eggs).

I'm not saying she definitely IS, but you do describe some of the symptoms or behaviors. Also, well-fed females do not necessarily have to mate to lay eggs. It's an evolutionary thing that when food is plentiful, hormones in the snake may trigger the production of eggs even before she has a chance to find a mate or the other way around! (I'm NOT a zoologist, so some of the scientific or technical terms may slip my mind, but some of this I actually leaned from Nanci, who MAY chime in if she reads this or has the time, which she's been very generous with lately - THANK YOU NANCI!!!).

If your snake does lay eggs, if she's never been paired with a male, they may be slugs or unfertilized. However, are you certain she's never been with another snake (do you keep tabs on her social life? LOL!). Actually, I've heard of females who mate and skip a year or two without laying and that they can actually save the sperm from several males and select which are the best matches for her offspring. But don't hold me to that as I don't remember if I read that here or somewhere else and currently can't direct you to any scholarly literature that confirms this stuff. You can do a search and look it up, if you have the time. It's not difficult to find! (If you do a search on Google about corns, you MAY actually find several links BACK to this forum!) There are several books that ae out there, one off the top of my burnt-out dome is by Kathy Love and another by Don Soderberg, searches of both names will bring you to links of books written by them.

Sorry I can't be more precise. I've been busier than a one-legged man in an ass-kickin' contest lately!!! On that note, I gotta bounce! But please keep us updated and lemme know if you should wanna travel to see a vet in Brooklyn. She IS fabulous, but like I mentioned, it may be a hike for you!!!

I truly hope your little sneaky one gets better!

 

[axis1]

OOPS!

Sorry!!

Just noticed you asked about humidity levels and I didn't answer that (you actually asked someone else, but I just noticed).

Since your snake has her mouth open (which IS kind of scary, unless she's actively laying eggs and EVEN THEN!), you may want to make sure the tank or cage is MOSTLY DRY! I have a screen mesh enclosure for my female (Lilly) and one of my other adult males, because when I first started keeping corns, I read that they only have one functional lung and I thought more ventilation would be better for them. However, there are pros and cons to everything and this is a challenge in the winter as type of enclosure is no good with UTH heaters and require a great deal of tweaking and regulation with a combination of ceramic heating elements and heated rocks, which aren't for everyone and especially if no one is around for significantly long periods.

Bottom line, keep it as dry as possible in her enclosure and if you think she is ready to shed (or lay eggs?) provide a lay box with moist or dampened sphagnum moss or other appropriate medium and a humid hide to help her if she needs to shed. The rest of the enclosure should be dry though, as corns do not require a high amount of humidity in general.

Hope this helps.

 

[Nanci]

I understand sound waves are vibrations. However, my question or confusion as to even whether there IS a question or not has to do with a snake's ability to hear: do they actually HEAR (i.e., in the AUDITORY sense) or FEEL (i.e., in the TACTILE sense) a vibration or frequency?

If the answer is they can hear (FEEL the vibration), I guess I'm OK with it because I can understand it in the same way that I can understand their sense of smell (i.e., in the OLFACTORY sense) through their tongue (i.e., which in humans is the GUSTATORY sense).

I hope this makes sense (i.e., in the LOGICAL sense)! :eek1:

That's why they did the rattlesnake experiment where they were suspended in baskets- so the vibration wouldn't be transmitted to the snakes.

Also- does it help to know that mammalian ossicles (ear bones) evolved from the jaw? Segments of reptilian jaw that were of no use to mammals were repurposed into ear bones, and mammals and birds went on to evolve cochleas too.

 

[axis1]

That's why they did the rattlesnake experiment where they were suspended in baskets- so the vibration wouldn't be transmitted to the snakes.

Also- does it help to know that mammalian ossicles (ear bones) evolved from the jaw? Segments of reptilian jaw that were of no use to mammals were repurposed into ear bones, and mammals and birds went on to evolve cochleas too.

Very interesting. (I once had a client who SWORE that the king of Sweden was using his penis as a radio transmitter to send anti-Semitic, lesbian, meatloaf recipes to Soupy Sales & Marvin Hamlisch). :crazy01:

Bottom line: (said at 6:55am while I'm on my third cup of coffee and back from a 5 mile run in heat which is just plainly REDICULOUS for NYC!) - While I do accept that snakes can discern sound from a range of frequencies, including from, but not limited to, vibrations audible to the human ear, I still can't resolve that to mean they actually HEAR a sound - it's just not the same thing! (Though I agree that if a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to hear it that it still makes a frickin noise). They can feel sounds but can they hear noise? Not the same thing. They don't have eardrums, so I don't know if I can EVER wrap my mind around it as being similar or the same. But I do appreciate the info. I will never look at the issue the same again. And THAT says a lot! Thanx for that! Maybe we should add a tag or two so that people who do a search can see the points made, from a scientific perspective. Though I'm not so anxious for them to see the points I made, from a psychotic perspective!

:bounce:

HOLY SH**!!! Does this mean that I was torturing one of my snakes who for YEARS was kept on top of one of the speakers I had (actually the mid-range and not a bass, thankfully, or I woulda spilled much more of his water!!) set up in my living room? He didn't seem to mind. Besides, he lived for over 15 years!!!

Oh jeez! I don't think I could keep this discussion up much longer. Way too much self-reflection this early in the morning! :headbang: