Some sage parenting advice needed

[danielle]

So today I find out my daughter who is in a GT program failed her unit 2 math test and has been passing notes in class...again. A month into the school year the teacher made me aware of the note passing in which my daughter outright denied. I decided to be smart knowing she was guilty and told my daughter I would be disappointed if she made a mistake and wasn't honest with me while telling her teacher to save these notes so I could bust her with evidence. It didn't take but two days for the teacher to produce 2 notes in which my daughter was asked about, lied to me, and then crumbled when I pulled them out of my pocket. She was grounded for a week which in my house is no tv, games, computer, phone, and you must stay in your room unless your eating, showering, or pottying. I thought all would be well after this...I was wrong.

Now this math test in question was to be taken before the Christmas break but we had a week off due to the snow and another two weeks off for break. That makes 3 weeks with no math or review. I had figured the teacher would review last week with them to make sure they were ready, but instead the test was given Monday and Tuesday with no review and she failed. On this I am mad at the teacher and not my daughter except math is when this note passing is occuring for the most part because many of her friends who are not in the GT program come in for math because they are on an excellerated level. These kids only get 20 mins. to eat and 20 mins. for recess so I know they just want to be social, but note passing and then lying is not okay.

So heres my problem- she is still denying the note passing I told her this morning she is grounded indefinitely until she is honest with me and I will be speaking to her teacher later on today about her test makeup and some tutoring for her so she does well, but I also want to express to the teacher my frusteration with the way the test was given in the first place without sounding like a b word which is hard for me. I know the county sets deadlines and this is not entirely her fault, but one review day could have been fit in IMO. I also do not know how to make my daughter stop the note passing and be honest which is what I am really mad about. Its seems the harder I push the more inclined she is do as she pleases and the more room I give the more inclined she is to do what she pleases...she's a lot like me unfotunately but even I told my parents the truth when I was busted.

So wise parents here what you do about a lying note passing child?

 

[snakewispera snr]

How old is she and what does it say in these notes?

 

[danielle]

She's 8 and the notes are usually about do you want to play afterschool, are you mad at so and so, nd innocent stuff like that. Its the lying and disregard for school thats making me want to strangle her right now.

 

[Dinah]

My kids are still young so I am still far from being a wise parent, but I wonder is she passing notes to the same person each time or is it to different people? If it was the same person each time, the teacher could easily solve this problem by moving where they sit or by assigning the note passers seats that are separated from each other. Maybe you could ask that your daughter be assigned a seat that is off to the side and out of note passing range.

What grade level is this? I wonder because a test straight away after 3 weeks off is hard, no matter what grade, but obviously as kids get older more can be expected of them so I was just wondering what grade it was.

If it were me I would write the teacher, or call, or go in and talk to them and say that you are continuing to work on the behavior issue and that you hope they can work with you possibly by seat moving and by continuing to keep the notes, but then go on to say that you really think that a big part of the failed test was the three weeks off and no review. Just keep it simple and non confrontational by saying I really think that she does much better at getting her head in the game if after a long break there is a review of some sorts.

How is she doing in her other classes, could this be a personality conflict between her and this specific teacher? If she is doing great in her other classes and if her other teachers adore her and her behavior is stellar in her other classes, then this could be that she just doesn't respond to this teachers teaching style, or to this teachers discipline or something like that. Obviously even if that is the case you will have to figure out how to work with the situation at hand, but knowing a lot about what is causing the issue certainly will help you figure out a coping strategy. Or it could be that a kid who is a particularly strong and bad influence on her is in this class with her and not her other classes.

The best of luck to you, I hope you are able to get it all straightened out without too many headaches for anyone involved.

 

[Dinah]

She's 8 and the notes are usually about do you want to play afterschool, are you mad at so and so, nd innocent stuff like that. Its the lying and disregard for school thats making me want to strangle her right now.

I was already posting before this post happened so sorry about re asking questions.

At 8 they should just be able to move her to a different seat and I personally think it is totally inappropriate that they would give them a test straight away after a 3 week break.

 

[snakewispera snr]

TBH after your first post I was expecting a much older child... 14 or 15 ....

 

[danielle]

She only has this teacher because this is the only GT teacher for 3rd graders It is the same group of girls passing the notes and seats have already been moved with my daughter literally sitting right up front by the teachers desk, but obviously this isn't working. I personally can't stand her teacher and we have already clashed twice before. This is the first year I haven't adored her teacher or that my daughter has ever been in any trouble, but this year has been rough. My daughters hormones are definitely kicking into high gear. She has developed the eye rolling smart mouth posture of an early teen and has spent most of this year grounded. While I blame the teacher for my daughters poor test grade my daughter is responsible for behaving whether she or I like the teacher or not. This woman who is her teacher has a stink eye and nasty tone which drives me batty, but again in the real world whether you like or dislike someone you are expected to behave in a certain way period.

I'm a pretty relaxed parent, I talk to my kids, and am open minded. I ground for serious offenses and I know she is lying hoping to avoid getting in trouble but our home policy is if you make a mistake and are honest about it we simply discuss the situation. If you make a mistake and lie about it your in deep doodoo. So why lie?

 

[WHOOPS]

supose i should speek from the kids point of view seams how im only 18 going 19 and have no kids yet (that i no of lol) tbh very basic reverse physcoligy (spelling) used to work with me .. it might be worth a try .. but girls tent to cop on faster than boys .. she is only eight so 2-4 weeks grounding would work for me at that age .. but saying that (with no offence to anyone) when i was grounded at that age it was like being in a concentration camp .. my dad would take EVERYTHING out of my room except for my bed a lamp and school books .. im not saying you should do this .. but it worked for me lol
good luck with her anyway

 

[tsst]

Sounds like you are on the right track but need to tweak it based on her and your values.

I caught my son (11) in a lie a couples times so we decided to over emphasize the lie portion of the punishment. For example in your scenario I would tell him your grounded 1 day for passing the note in class and your grounded 1 week for lying about it. Next time you get 2 days for the note passing and 2 weeks for the lying part. And so on. To me the lying part was much more critical than the passing note part. My two cents.

 

[danielle]

I know Mike this is what is bothering me. I didn't act like this until my teens. At 8 she does algebra, geometry, and pretty advanced equations. She has to write papers each week, has science projects bi-monthly, and is on a 6th-8th grade level in all subjects. She has passed every state test through 5th grade and next year will be bused to the middle school for part of the day for english, science, and math so she's a little too smart for her own good However, her attitude, crossed arms, eye rolling, and whatever stance on authority all the sudden is killing me. She was my best bud and now she is trying to grow her wings a few years too early. Honesty is all I'm asking for here and she refuses

 

[jlindp]

I'm not a parent, but I do have some experience with kids. Actually, this is the same scenario my brother went through (he's 25 now) when he was around 10-11. He was always caught reading or doodling in the classes that bored him and he repeatedly got in trouble for it. Come to find out, he had already done his work in advance, etc. The classes that he "acted up in" were the ones that he was too smart for. He felt he didn't need to pay attention to a teacher when he clearly thought he already knew the material--and he usually did. The attitude came along with it. But he also suffered from ADD. Eventually my parents had to pull him from the school and enroll him in a school for gifted students, to put him on a more challenging curriculum.

Maybe your daughter is experiencing the same thing?

 

[wade]

Danielle you have no idea how much I sympathize with you. I have two children, a boy and a girl, both grown. My boy was perfect in every way, just like his dad, my daughter was 100% the opposite in every way.

My daughter sounds like yours. Even when she is caught red handed she will look you in the eye and deny any wrong doing. I would infuriate me.

I think you daughter is testing the teacher. She is defying her authority. It may be that she also does not like the teacher or has gotten those vibes from you. I would suggest for one thing getting behind the teacher and supporting her in everything. Make it known throughout the land that you agree with everything the teacher does. I was a teacher for 10 years and I know that a lot of my really bad discipline problems came from the home. Kids pick up on that really fast.

I would try to set up some kind of reward system for your daughter. Let her know how important it is to not have problems with the teacher. Ask the teacher for a weekly report, in writing, that your daughter needs to bring home with her. Tell you daughter if it’s good she will get a movie and ice cream, or some such thing. Three good reports earns a sleep over with friends.

I was always afraid of wrongly punishing my kids I have learned that parents are smarter than they think they are. If you know you are right then I would explain to the child that the punishment is reduced if they admit to it and apologize, increased if they continue to deny it.

Love your kids too much. Even when they do wrong. Make sure they know that will never change. Drink lots of tequila.

 

[Carinata]

.....lock her in a closet.

 

[danielle]

She failed her math test and is in the GT program. Her school is one of few that bus gifed kids in to receive an excellerated education and she struggles in math this year for the first time. I can't figure out though if the struggling is from it being too hard, or her socialization in this class. Her county test scores suggest its not too hard, but our HW fights suggest otherwise so I am on the fence. I have discussed pulling her from the program with the school and they feel she will slack off more and socialize more in a regular curriculum. She used to love school, work hard, and like the work. Now school is stupid, HW is stupid, her teacher is stupid, I am stupid...you get the point. Everybody but her sucks this year. I have tried talking, grounding, and spanking, backing off a little, talking to her councilor, and met with the teacher twice so far. She just plain doesn't want to work this year at all and it puzzles me. This kid has taught herself the capital of every state in every country on the map including McDonald island which I never knew existed. She reads on her own for fun about authors, countries, scientists, and other autobiographies about people who interest her. She's inquisitive and eager about all the things they don't teach in school and completely rushes through every assignment to be done because she hates it. I know some of this is perfectly normal afterall I disliked the work part of school too, but not at this age.

I have tried motivating her with special privaledges when she performs well, post her A tests on the fridge and praise her, take her out to lunch for girl time without her brother, and try to show her I support her, but still I am the enemy in this house lately. My parents think this is all funny and call her little Danielle so their zero help- if it were up to them their precious grandaughter would never get in trouble and they were NEVER strict with me. They think she is just stubborn, feisty, and opinionated and will calm with age, but I fear things will get way worse if I don't do something now.

 

[danielle]

Wade we do get weekly reports all parents and kids must sign and return Mondays. We do reward for good weeks, talk about why bad weeks were so, and have met with the teacher and my daughter to show our support for the class. This week my daughter will be missing recess twice and staying after school twice to get extra math help and she is grounded until SHE tells me the whole truth about the note passing. Its not the note, but the lie and she knows this. Honery beast that she is would rather be grounded than be honest

 

[wade]

You probably don’t want to hear this but your parents may very well be right. She is making a transition from childhood to adolescence. She may just be trying to figure out the boundaries. Wait till she hit puberty.

My girl was really smart and gifted. Advanced classes, piano, won the spelling bee, all that crap. I think she felt she was under a lot of pressure. It was easy for her in the beginning but after a while the other kids started catching up with her and she had to work harder to stay on top. There came a point when she couldn’t be number one in everything and so she quit trying.

 

[tsst]

Danielle stick to your guns, I think it may just take some time. One thing is for sure her mother's heart is in the right place. Kids figure that out eventually!

 

[wade]

That is a good point! She knows who loves her.


One other thing I just have to point out. My daughter is 32 years old. I question my self every day about what I am doing and did with her.

 

[Dinah]

I kind of have a weird perspective being a homeschooling parents but also being in school myself studying to be a teacher. I really think this situation skews me outlook somewhat and I think it is important that I admit that before I give any further advice.

I think you should talk with the principle and let him/her know about the 'stink eye and harsh tone' (I don't really think that is considered professional behavior), and see if the principle would be willing to have a meeting with you, your daughter, and the teacher. It seems to me the principle being involved may be a jolt for your daughter suggesting that this is an issue you are taking seriously and it may also be a jolt to the teacher because now the teacher will know that the principle is also looking into the situation.

But even if you have misgivings about the teacher and even if you feel like you need to express them to the teacher or to the principle try not to let your daughter know about them, if you decide to talk with the principle or teacher about your misgivings let them know that you want to present a united front to your daughter and as such you are not comfortable discussing your misgivings in front of her.

 

[Teddy Roosevelt]

.....lock her in a closet.

NO. MORE. WIRE. HANGERS!!!!

In all seriousness, I have to ask if you really want her to skip forward so many grades? I was set in 2nd grade to skip on up to 5th, but I felt so isolated and couldn't relate to the older kids in my advanced courses I begged to quit. The preteen years are harder than the teen ones, especially for a smart kid, because children are absolutely at their most vicious at that age. She will likely be picked on for being so young, so small, and so smart and it'll be really hard on her. Besides that, it sounds like she has a pretty heavy workload for an 8 year old, maybe she's burnt out? I fizzled out of honors (I assume that's what GT is) around freshmen/sophomore year because it was just too much pressure to be the best, too much competition, too much work to focus on anything else... and now I'm getting A's in all my normal-for-my-grade classes, and not nearly as stressed as I would've been in the honors courses of the same subject. I understand that as a parent you're excited in her ability and want her to go far... but what's gonna happen if she keeps up this pace? Will she be in college or preparing to be at 14 or 15? When she finishes, where will she go? Sit at home looking for somewhere that'll hire an overqualified 16 year old? What she's doing sounds exactly like what I did when I was sick of working my butt off in honors and wanted out.