Thinking Very Hard About Breeding My Own Mice...

[ShenziSixaxis]

So I thought 63.59 USD for 50 hoppers and 50 fuzzies was a good price, and it is, but I still think I can save myself some money and, since I do schooling online, get myself a real hobby of breeding my own mice.

- So to start I figured I'd get one male and two females. Thing is, I hear that some breeders inbreed their feeder mice at pet stores and that 'fancy' pet mice aren't inbred. So is it okay to get feeder mice and use them to breed or should I ask about their lineage and then decide on fancies or not?


- I don't plan to keep these guys in expensive pet cages that allow you to easily see the animal. Would cheap-o tubs work well? What size? (Like maybe what someone could house a corn in?)


- I was browsing through some topics and someone (Wade, I think) said that it's best to get the mice at the hopper stage (or weanling? not sure) so they could grow to maturity together. I'm thinking that's a good idea, because I'd like to be able to house the females together at least while they're not with pups (right name for baby mice in general?).


- While browsing some topics, I again came to one where someone had problems with cannibalism. Why the heck does that happen and how can I prevent it?


- I know most companies like Rodent Pro feed their mice and other feeders scientifically proven food, but I don't really feel like trying to get what they use. Would a bird seed or small animal food mix work?


- How long does gestation last? How long should I breed the individuals before retiring them? How long will a mother care for the babies/when should I separate them?




Those are the main things I can think of to decide if I want to do this. Answering these questions, along with posting links to products that are cheap and good to use and as well as pictures, and giving some general tips are nice.
Although, I would like if I didn't get any "just buy from [feeder company]; it's easier!" I'm looking for a cheap way to get feeders, and a hobby.

 

[wstphal]

So I thought 63.59 USD for 50 hoppers and 50 fuzzies was a good price, and it is, but I still think I can save myself some money and, since I do schooling online, get myself a real hobby of breeding my own mice.

Makes sense.

- So to start I figured I'd get one male and two females. Thing is, I hear that some breeders inbreed their feeder mice at pet stores and that 'fancy' pet mice aren't inbred. So is it okay to get feeder mice and use them to breed or should I ask about their lineage and then decide on fancies or not?

Feeder mice are inbred, so are fancy mice, but separately so. If you can get some of each so you don't have heavy inbreeding problems.

- I don't plan to keep these guys in expensive pet cages that allow you to easily see the animal. Would cheap-o tubs work well? What size? (Like maybe what someone could house a corn in?)

Yes, tubs work! I used to keep 1.2 mice + babies in shoebox/bootbox size tubs. No problemo.

- I was browsing through some topics and someone (Wade, I think) said that it's best to get the mice at the hopper stage (or weanling? not sure) so they could grow to maturity together. I'm thinking that's a good idea, because I'd like to be able to house the females together at least while they're not with pups (right name for baby mice in general?).

Most folks seem to leave 1.2 mice together & then skim off pinks, hoppers or weanlings from the tubs as needed. Male mice fight but females don't, so you can have 1.2 or 1.3 or even 1.4 together (depending on tub size of course).

- While browsing some topics, I again came to one where someone had problems with cannibalism. Why the heck does that happen and how can I prevent it?

Darn if I know but I ~think~ it's crowding. Other folks may know more.

- I know most companies like Rodent Pro feed their mice and other feeders scientifically proven food, but I don't really feel like trying to get what they use. Would a bird seed or small animal food mix work?

Rodent food works, as bought at pet supply places. Bird seed isn't nutritionally complete but can be included as part of a mouse diet. I think there is a recipe for a good mouse diet somewhere here on the site.

- How long does gestation last? How long should I breed the individuals before retiring them? How long will a mother care for the babies/when should I separate them?

I don't recall but gestation is short. Moms will care for babies until they are a pretty good size, and I used to pull out & cull males when I could tell they were male.

I'm looking for a cheap way to get feeders, and a hobby.[/QUOTE]


I don't know if it will be supercheap but mice are cute as anything, come in TONS of color morphs plus having coat texture morphs as well. It will be fun! Ihope that helps.

 

[ShenziSixaxis]

^ Thanks for the info. I guess I'll try to get them at different places. I suppose a fancy male wouldn't hurt, and getting feeder females at the hopper stage from the two different stores here that carry live would work.

A few other things I just thought of:


- With a tub, I can't think of any way to put a water-tube-thing in. Would a heavy dish work if I cleaned it once or twice a day?



- I'm also wondering about table scraps and treats. As females will be pregnant all the time and taking care of babies, what kind of pet-treats and table scraps could be helpful?


- I know dogs are only in heat once or twice a year and don't get pregnant between being in heat. Does a similar thing happen with mice or can I throw a male in with a female for half an hour to get her pregnant again after raising a litter?

 

[wstphal]

^ Thanks for the info. I guess I'll try to get them at different places. I suppose a fancy male wouldn't hurt, and getting feeder females at the hopper stage from the two different stores here that carry live would work.

Yes indeed that would work fine!
A few other things I just thought of:


- With a tub, I can't think of any way to put a water-tube-thing in. Would a heavy dish work if I cleaned it once or twice a day?

I don't think water dishes work well. I punched a big hole in the side of the tube (soldering iron) & stuffed the tube from a rodent water bottle thru it then held the bottle again the the tub with rubber bands. Looked sloppy, worked great!

- I'm also wondering about table scraps and treats. As females will be pregnant all the time and taking care of babies, what kind of pet-treats and table scraps could be helpful?

Anything but meat is probably fine! Mice LOVE dog chow or cat chow although I don't think too of either is good for them.

- I know dogs are only in heat once or twice a year and don't get pregnant between being in heat. Does a similar thing happen with mice or can I throw a male in with a female for half an hour to get her pregnant again after raising a litter?

Mice are in heat OFTEN so although I think it takes more than half an hour together to guarantee pregnancy, 1 day clearly works. Mice squeak loudly when they hookup so if you live close to the tubs, you will know.

 

[wade]

That is a lot of questions.

Mice have about a 5 day estrus cycle. The female comes into estrus about three hours after giving birth and then begins the 5 day cycle. Females first have estrus at around 30 days of age.

The reason people set up colonies of mice and then leave them is that the females will not except a strange male into the group. If you remove the male and let the mother raise the young she will not except the male when he returns and will most likely kill him.

The proper way is to get a male and 2 or 3 females and put them all in a tub. The must be young animals, pre puberty. Then they can grow up together and come to breeding age together as a group. The colony should never be changed. If the male dies you have to start all over with a new group.

The gestation period is about 20 days. The babies can be weaned from the mother at about 3 weeks of age.

As Betsy said, water bowls will not work. The mice will foul the water and make a mess of the cage. You must have a water bottle hung outside the cage somehow with only the sipper tube extending into the cage.

Some people feed dry dog food to their mice, and it works but is not the best. I feed a blend of grains along with dry cat food. Wheat, milo, corn, oats, black oil sunflower seeds, cat food, in equal amounts. You may find that your local feed story has lab blocks for mice. If you can find them that is by far the best and cheapest way to go.

I would avoid table scraps. Too many greens, especially lettuce, will give them terminal diarrhea. Fresh vegetables periodically are ok. Stale bread is ok.

 

[ShenziSixaxis]

Okay, just to make sure I've got this right, a good sized tub with all the needed supplies can house a few females (two?) with a single male and not have cannibalism of the adults or pups?


And, I was just watching a video on breeding, and I gotta ask: How many pups should I expect per female?

 

[Candachan]

Thing is, I hear that some breeders inbreed their feeder mice at pet stores and that 'fancy' pet mice aren't inbred. So is it okay to get feeder mice and use them to breed or should I ask about their lineage and then decide on fancies or not?

Inbreeding isn't really a concern with mice if you're going to use them as feeders. Laboratory mice are often inbred for hundreds of generations and I bet they still taste great! When I bred mice I had a limited gene pool and never saw any birth defects.

- I don't plan to keep these guys in expensive pet cages that allow you to easily see the animal. Would cheap-o tubs work well? What size? (Like maybe what someone could house a corn in?)

Tubs will be fine but be careful that they don't start to chew on them or you could start an infestation! I used to keep 4 mice per 10 gallon tank, 1 male and 3 females. I cleaned them pretty often because males STINK!


- I was browsing through some topics and someone (Wade, I think) said that it's best to get the mice at the hopper stage (or weanling? not sure) so they could grow to maturity together. I'm thinking that's a good idea, because I'd like to be able to house the females together at least while they're not with pups (right name for baby mice in general?).

Pups is the correct term. If you're getting your female mice from the same place the odds are very good that they are siblings and were raised together, so you can get 2-3 adult females and have them live happily. I didn't see many dominance or aggression issues with females. You can house the females and the male together entirely, the male will not harm his own pups and the females will help raise another female's pups. I never seperated any of my mice unless they were sick.

- While browsing some topics, I again came to one where someone had problems with cannibalism. Why the heck does that happen and how can I prevent it?

Young female mice often lose their first litter just due to inexperience, they will also eat their pups if they are stressed. It's important to keep your mice somewhere quiet with low lighting at all times, and to be very delicate when you are messing around in the cage with pinkies. Getting your mice used to you is very important when it comes to this subject, too. There are also some mice that are chronic baby-eaters, I've had some females that were awful and would eat every pup they found. Obviously these mice should be culled immediately.


- I know most companies like Rodent Pro feed their mice and other feeders scientifically proven food, but I don't really feel like trying to get what they use. Would a bird seed or small animal food mix work?

Lab block is easier and cheaper in the long run, a bag of lab block will last you forever. They can eat almost anything but bird seed isn't nutritionally complete and you'll notice smaller and weaker pups from mothers without a good diet. It's also not that hard to find and buy, you can purchase lab block directly from Harlan online.

- How long does gestation last? How long should I breed the individuals before retiring them? How long will a mother care for the babies/when should I separate them?

Gestation is about 3 weeks, and you wean them about 3 weeks after they are born (21-25 days, depending on how they look). The best sign to know when a baby is ready to be weaned is their ears will "stick up" and basically be held up like an adult's ears, before that the ears are often folded back against their head at all times. Mice can breed forever if you'd like to try, but the females tend to taper off at about 9 months, and the males seem to get worse after about a year. I would get new females every 6 months or so to keep things fresh.

I work for a medical research lab and we have breeding colonies of mice. I'm using a mix of our procedures as well as my own personal procedures from when I bred feeders at home. Hope this helps!

 

[Candachan]

- With a tub, I can't think of any way to put a water-tube-thing in. Would a heavy dish work if I cleaned it once or twice a day?

A dish will get nasty quickly, you can drill a hole in the tub and use velcro to hold a water bottle to the side with the spout sticking through the hole. Make it fairly low so weanling mice can reach it.

- I'm also wondering about table scraps and treats. As females will be pregnant all the time and taking care of babies, what kind of pet-treats and table scraps could be helpful?

Mice can and will eat anything, and table scraps are fine for them. I used to give mine grains, veggies, and occasionally some meat scraps but not too much.


- I know dogs are only in heat once or twice a year and don't get pregnant between being in heat. Does a similar thing happen with mice or can I throw a male in with a female for half an hour to get her pregnant again after raising a litter?

No, a female mouse doesn't go into heat until a few days after she knows a male is around. You can induce a female mouse to go into heat early by throwing dirty bedding in from the male's cage into her cage a few days before you pair them up. However you can just have them live together all the time in colonies and they will do great! I usually had 1.3 or 1.4 together, the male will keep knocking them up and the moms will all raise the pups together. The male won't hurt the babies.

 

[Candachan]

Okay, just to make sure I've got this right, a good sized tub with all the needed supplies can house a few females (two?) with a single male and not have cannibalism of the adults or pups?


And, I was just watching a video on breeding, and I gotta ask: How many pups should I expect per female?

This varies with age, diet, and sometimes the genetics of the mouse. I'd say an average litter for an adult mouse would be anywhere from 8-12 pups. The first few litters will probably be smaller, as will litters from an older female.

Cannibalism is caused by the mom being stressed out by being bothered too much, usually. The male has nothing to do with it in most cases.

 

[ShenziSixaxis]

Alright, thanks.

I'm really liking this idea; now I just have to do some number crunching so my mom will let me turn a corner of my room into a place for the mice.



Also, been looking at some videos and apparently 10gal tanks can house 1.3 mice (1 male and up to 3 females) easily. Maybe I'll use one of the extra 10gallons I have.

 

[Candachan]

Alright, thanks.

I'm really liking this idea; now I just have to do some number crunching so my mom will let me turn a corner of my room into a place for the mice.



Also, been looking at some videos and apparently 10gal tanks can house 1.3 mice (1 male and up to 3 females) easily. Maybe I'll use one of the extra 10gallons I have.

Yup, 10 gallons are what I used to use. Get a good sized hide and a few sheets of tissue in the tank and they will all have their babies in it together. Raising mice is pretty cheap but the downside is the males STINK! So you'll be doing more cleaning than you would for a snake, obviously, but once you get the colony up and running it can be a really great investment.

 

[ShenziSixaxis]

I don't have a great sense of smell for some reason, so that won't bother me, especially if I clean it out.

And, when I had a pet rat (smelly male) I used to make some nice hides with a hot glue gun and popsicle sticks. He'd chew 'em up after about a month because he had nothing better to do, but it was fun. I guess I'll do that with these little guys too (and maybe my corn when she's bigger).

 

[Candachan]

Anything will work. Make sure you give them some tissues, they will tear them up and make a nest with them, it's pretty interesting to watch.

 

[ShenziSixaxis]

I bet.


Now, runny-nose-I'm-sick tissues or anything like that like cheapish toilet paper and/or paper towels?

 

[Candachan]

Anything soft paper that they can shred up will work.

 

[ShenziSixaxis]

:laugh: Thought so.



Okay, how long would a 4.5LB bag of food last three mice (2 female, 1 male)? And a 24 quart bag of aspen? After I get all the stuff I need (besides a 10gal since I have one), all I'll pay to keep them running is 35 USD, but I wanna know how long the food and aspen might last them. I would like to know how long 5 chewy sticks that are 4 inches long would last, as well. (Gotta keep their teeth short. )

 

[Candachan]

That's another benefit to feeding lab block instead of seed, it keeps their teeth short so you dont need to use chew sticks.

I'd imagine the food would last you a few months as long as there wasn't a lot of it wasted. A big bag of aspen will also last you a good while.

 

[ShenziSixaxis]

I don't really mind buying loose food, seeing as I get a good online discount and can't find any lab blocks online and don't know of any places that have them locally.

 

[ZoologyGirl]

:laugh: Thought so.



Okay, how long would a 4.5LB bag of food last three mice (2 female, 1 male)? And a 24 quart bag of aspen? After I get all the stuff I need (besides a 10gal since I have one), all I'll pay to keep them running is 35 USD, but I wanna know how long the food and aspen might last them. I would like to know how long 5 chewy sticks that are 4 inches long would last, as well. (Gotta keep their teeth short. )

As far as the food, if you have them in a tub system I am assuming you are just going to put the food in a dish. Unfortunately I found that a lot of food gets wasted this way. When I switched to my rack system, with overhead food bin, very little food gets wasted and my food probably lasts 5 times longer.

 

[ShenziSixaxis]

I'm not completely sure how to set up an overhead feeder in a 10gal tank. I assume I'd need large pellet type food then, right?