"Tiny" miracle (47 gr)

[Eternity]

In may my caramel scared the hell out of me.
I bought "him" 3 years ago as a male.
Stupid me, never checkt because it bought it from a very well known breeder.
After feeding the males I decided to give him is own little terra, cause he was so much smaller than the rest.
It took me 6 months to get him to eat propely so he wasn't quite as big as the other 3 year olds. (because he didn't grow so fast I named him Tiny.
He did eat that day, but i worried a bit, becuase he was so small and in my eyes kindda skinny.
I moved him to another terra so I could give him some extra care.
4 days later "he" layed 5 eggs!!!
It really scared the living hell out of me, because SHE was way too small!
After laying the eggs she only was 47 grams!!
I really thought she wasn't gonna make it. There was not much snake left.

one egg gone bad, the other 4 hatched and all the young ones are very healthy and never refuse a meal!

Almost 5 months later, Tiny is doing very well.
She started to eat a couple of days after laying her eggs.
She is 93 grams now!

Did anyone ever heard of a corn that was only 47 gram after laying eggs and surfived??

 

[Eternity]

Anyone?
Or is it just normal that such a small animal survives such an ordeal?

 

[CornCrazy]

I say you were just VERY lucky. This is another example as to why snakes should NOT be housed together.

 

[ChristinaM]

WOW, that is tiny :eek1: I'm glad she is doing well for you The smallest snake I've had to lay eggs was in the 230-250gr range. I could not imagine a 49gr snake laying eggs, or even 100gr snake laying.

Out of curiousity, the babies, how big were they?

 

[cornsnakekid92]

I say you were just VERY lucky. This is another example as to why snakes should NOT be housed together.

just what i was thinking

 

[Eternity]

WOW, that is tiny :eek1: I'm glad she is doing well for you The smallest snake I've had to lay eggs was in the 230-250gr range. I could not imagine a 49gr snake laying eggs, or even 100gr snake laying.

Out of curiousity, the babies, how big were they?

Thanks
The babies were normal sized.
And they ate right after the first shed.

And as far as housing them together.
That was not what I was asking for now was it....
I am not a snake breeding center and I don't stuff them away in a curver rack.
I will never make the same mistake again and I will make sure I know the gender.
Forgive me if I am not as perfect as some of you expect.
Don't know about you, but I am only human!

 

[CornCrazy]

Thanks
The babies were normal sized.
And they ate right after the first shed.

And as far as housing them together.
That was not what I was asking for now was it....
I am not a snake breeding center and I don't stuff them away in a curver rack.
I will never make the same mistake again and I will make sure I know the gender.
Forgive me if I am not as perfect as some of you expect.
Don't know about you, but I am only human!

Whoa...don't be so defensive. I was not in any way attacking you. I was just stating the obvious. It is another VERY good example as to why they shouldn't be housed together. It is a good lesson for people who don't realize that.

I did not want someone reading your story and thinking it was an OK thing to do.

 

[Roy Munson]

I am not a snake breeding center and I don't stuff them away in a curver rack.

No, you're not like those evil breeders who use racks to ensure that solitary animals remain solitary. You're a snake saint, stuffing your non-social animals into the same enclosures causing feeding and developmental issues along with premature, life-threatening breeding opportunities. I'm going to throw away my evil racks and do things your way from now on... :grin01:

 

[Mary-Beth]

No, you're not like those evil breeders who use racks to ensure that solitary animals remain solitary. You're a snake saint, stuffing your non-social animals into the same enclosures causing feeding and developmental issues along with premature, life-threatening breeding opportunities. I'm going to throw away my evil racks and do things your way from now on... :grin01:

HA! Just think of all the extra babies you'll have to sell when they start breeding at 47 grams!

 

[Marina-m2]

I had what i thought were two boys living together. They had both been sexed by someone i thought i could trust. Turns out this person was only 50% right. One of them was indeed a male the other turned out to be female and after having them live together for about two years the snow laid 6 eggs you can imagine my surprise. I didn't know which one it was either found out in the end when i had a second opinion on the sexes.

She had always been small but shes nearly four now and still very small slightly bigger than those jumbo pretzels you get!

The babies did very well, 1 didn't make it out of the egg and one needed force feeding and eventually died but the other 4 were complete crackers!
Lesson learnt now and all my snakes go to the vets to be sexed. :flames:
Marina

 

[ChristinaM]

I'm surprised that they were normal sized babies, just because at the females size I would expect smaller than normal egg sizes. Either way though, I'm glad the female is ok. Lesson learned right? Double check the sex of your snakes eh. We are all HUMAN and we ALL make mistakes.

Honestly, I do not see why some people have to respond the way they do to others just because they don't agree with cohabitation :shrugs: Sure, it's not the recommended thing to do, and there are risks to it. But you know what, people do it. And people will continue to do it. Personally, I know of alot of breeders that do. *shrug* it's their choice. They are educated enough to make their own decisions, and they also know their snakes well enough to see signs of stress and remove them if need be. Would I recommend co-habbing to someone who just got into snakes, heck NO. Would I flame someone who is co-habbing their snakes, but responsible enough to know the signs of stress, etc. heck No.

:sidestep: :sidestep: :sidestep: :sidestep: :sidestep: :sidestep: :sidestep:

Thanks
The babies were normal sized.
And they ate right after the first shed.

And as far as housing them together.
That was not what I was asking for now was it....
I am not a snake breeding center and I don't stuff them away in a curver rack.
I will never make the same mistake again and I will make sure I know the gender.
Forgive me if I am not as perfect as some of you expect.
Don't know about you, but I am only human!

 

[Roy Munson]

Honestly, I do not see why some people have to respond the way they do to others just because they don't agree with cohabitation :shrugs: Sure, it's not the recommended thing to do, and there are risks to it. But you know what, people do it. And people will continue to do it. Personally, I know of alot of breeders that do. *shrug* it's their choice. They are educated enough to make their own decisions, and they also know their snakes well enough to see signs of stress and remove them if need be. Would I recommend co-habbing to someone who just got into snakes, heck NO. Would I flame someone who is co-habbing their snakes, but responsible enough to know the signs of stress, etc. heck No.

(Emphasis mine) Only one person "flamed" the original poster: me. Maybe you didn't read the thread very well, or maybe your comments are very general and aren't meant to be applied to this thread. :shrugs: I wouldn't have replied at all if it had not been for the original poster's cheap shot at those who use racks. There are a number of people here who co-hab, and many of them know what they're doing, and I've never "flamed" them. Obviously, the original poster is not one of them. She got snippy with those who were offering her good advice, and then lashed out at them. In case you've forgotten, here's the offending section of her reply:

And as far as housing them together.
That was not what I was asking for now was it....
I am not a snake breeding center and I don't stuff them away in a curver rack.

Please keep in mind that your fellow forum members are under no obligation to post in a way that is consistent with your understanding or wishes. It's an open discussion forum.

 

[ChristinaM]

Hi Dean, Yes I am directing this comment to you in response to your previous post I also am posting in the General Chit-chat forum too, and I would value your input.

To the topic at hand:

I "thought" the original posters remarks were directed at Terri's response to her post. Which, Terri then responded in a pleasant manner explaining what she meant.

I did not see where some of your comments were warranted?

"No, you're not like those evil breeders who use racks to ensure that solitary animals remain solitary. You're a snake saint, stuffing your non-social animals into the same enclosures causing feeding and developmental issues along with premature, life-threatening breeding opportunities. I'm going to throw away my evil racks and do things your way from now on..."

I understand your anger at the rack remark, I keep my snakes in racks and individual bins. I'm as guilty as everyone else in "stuffing my snakes in racks."

But what I don't understand is the "You're a snake saint, stuffing your non-social animals...." and then Mary-Beth's sarcastic remark following yours.

I guess, it is more of a general response than specifically at this thread. I've been seeing alot of it lately, and don't understand it at all :shrugs: ( please see post in general chitchat which will be up shortly ). It "seems" like so many people just get ticked off and write in such a manner showing that, instead of taking the time to educate people.

I don't expect everyone to agree with me, nor do I expect everyone to agree with anyone. We all have our own "sensitivities", and I for one, know that I need to attempt to NOT make cheap shots ( yah, I admit I'm bad for it).

I probally shouldn't have posted here, but I owed an explanation for my remarks. I'll take anything else to the general post which will be up shortly.

I hope some of this does make sense, and apologise for the off-topic post.

 

[gwb8568]

:-offtopic congratulations on some new babies and a healthy "small" mother. that is all i have for this thread, sorry :sidestep:

 

[Mary-Beth]

I understand and respect your opinion on this matter Christina. I haven't read the post in general chit chat yet, but I will.

I think we just need to remember that everyone is different and will respond differently to things. Personally, I'm very sarcastic. If someone who has made very bad mistake decides to get defensive and make unjustified rude comments after they have been treated respectfully, they're going to get the sarcastic side of my tongue. That's just the way I am.

 

[ChristinaM]

I understand and respect your opinion on this matter Christina. I haven't read the post in general chit chat yet, but I will.

I think we just need to remember that everyone is different and will respond differently to things. Personally, I'm very sarcastic. If someone who has made very bad mistake decides to get defensive and make unjustified rude comments after they have been treated respectfully, they're going to get the sarcastic side of my tongue. That's just the way I am.

Thank you for your comment. Appreciated, and understood.

 

[Marina-m2]

I agree with the original poster on the use of racks they are hideous devices to use. Snakes do not choose to be stuffed in a plastic box with little or no exercise stuffed full of meat and expected just to lay eggs every year without fail.

All my snakes get full sized vivs with maximum space and regular handling plenty of climbing branches and access to daylight
!!

Marina

 

[Mary-Beth]

I agree with the original poster on the use of racks they are hideous devices to use. Snakes do not choose to be stuffed in a plastic box with little or no exercise stuffed full of meat and expected just to lay eggs every year without fail.

All my snakes get full sized vivs with maximum space and regular handling plenty of climbing branches and access to daylight
!!

Marina

:eek1:

:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
No comment!

 

[zwyatt]

I agree with the original poster on the use of racks they are hideous devices to use. Snakes do not choose to be stuffed in a plastic box with little or no exercise stuffed full of meat and expected just to lay eggs every year without fail.

All my snakes get full sized vivs with maximum space and regular handling plenty of climbing branches and access to daylight
!!

Marina

You stuff them in hideous vivs. You give them regular handling. Which of those is part of their normal life cycle in the wild? What you're doing is the same as everyone else just with an additional 1-2 square feet of floor space for your animals. :shrugs: Very little, if anything, we do with our corns is natural. There is little room to judge what someone else does unless they are completely mistreating/neglecting their animals. The use of a rack or sterilite tubs as enclosures does not imply neglect. I believe many larger sterilite tubs have more floor space than the vivs that most folks use for their adult corns.

 

[lefty_mussolini]

I agree with the original poster on the use of racks they are hideous devices to use. Snakes do not choose to be stuffed in a plastic box with little or no exercise stuffed full of meat and expected just to lay eggs every year without fail.

All my snakes get full sized vivs with maximum space and regular handling plenty of climbing branches and access to daylight
!!

Marina

Ok. Anyone who has been on this forum for a while will confirm that I do not get "active" in threads like this. Maybe make a sarcastic remark here and there, but this one made me mad.

A couple of things I want to say here:

1. Snakes do not choose to be kept in captivity. But as long as we provide food, water, and keep them in sanitary conditions that are not stressful to the animal (whether that be a rack with tubs with ample space or vivs) then the animals seem to be pretty content.

2. Who are you to say that my snakes get no excercise. Anyone that has seen my collection knows that I do not have a flabby snake in the lot. All of my snakes have GREAT muscle tone. It is one thing that I think is very important. All of my snakes are excercised regularly.

3. Who says that tubs in a rack don't have enough space. How many racks have you actually seen? Have you seen mine? Then it doesn't seem very fair to make these broad sweeping statements does it? My racks have plenty of room for every animal in them. And another way to ensure a proper amount of space is to give each animal their own enclosure. During the breeding season (the only time I have two animals in one enclosure), I put the pairs in a bigger tub or viv so that they have enough room, and I can keep an eye on them.

4. If the snakes lay eggs every year, they are probably not bothered by the racks. Stressed snakes will often refuse to breed.

5. Do you think that the people you got your snakes from used vivs only? I don't know about any of the rest of the breeders with a larger collection here, but I know that if I were to only use vivs with my snakes, I'd need another house. If everyone used vivs instead of "evul racks" there would be far fewer captive bred snakes in the world.