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what would you get...

It is a Amel het charcoal... I was just a little confused on the termanalogy... thanks... can you have a Blizzard that also has a phenotype of Anery A? I know that it is possible but will the Anery A be overshadowed by the Blizzard? since Blizzard is more dominant?
Im sure you know but the pewter is a cross between a charcoal and a blood??? but im possitive you already knew that... so what did you mean about your last question?
P.S. does anyone know exactly what a pewter is in terms of blood outcrossings?
 
P.S. does anyone know exactly what a pewter is in terms of blood outcrossings?
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Since the original lines of bloods didn't carry Charcoal, the only way to make pewters is to outcross bloodreds, and then breed for the F2s to recover the charcoal and as much of the "blood" trait as possible. You could then continue to breed these back to "better" bloodreds and then back to pewters to try to increase the additional effects. (If that's even possible in pewters?)
 
Interesting...

Most interesting. So does that mean that an F1 "pewter" from blood het charcoal/charcoal cross would look... kind of like a charcoal, but with the colors smeared out a little more? And you can never (or rarely) get real F1 pewters?
 
It seems to me that the dorsal 'pattern smearing' is an effect of the same trait that causes the plain belly. I could be wrong, but I don't think the dorsal effects are codominant. I would guess that the pairing you described (Blood het Charcoal X Charcoal) would produce offspring that look like any other charcoal. I could be way off base, though.

I think the real test for that question would be charcoal het blood X charcoal. If there's any codominance going on, that should produce all charcoals, but two different types of hatchlings. I'm sure someone somewhere has done this, but I don't think anybody really documents the details of such things. :(

This is why I'm taking pictures of every corn I hatch... if something I may not have been looking for is all of a sudden something I really should have looked for... I can go back and look for it. :) I also hope I can eventually come up with some kind of pattern formation algorithm, and use it to predict with some accuracy the likely patterns of offspring. Should be fun anyway. ;)
 
You guys make it sound like its going to be hard to distinguesh between a charcoal het pewter and a pewter het charcoal... I thought that charcoals have a more distinct pattern while the pewter is mostly gray and their pattern seems to faded or missing... am I correct on this? when I actually breed and get the babies I should be able to distinguesh what is charcoal and what is pewter when they are newborns correct?
 
Corny,
Most of the charcoals I have seen I would tend to agree.
Take a look at this and tell me what YOU think it is.
 

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That's what I thought as well Serp. I bought this one as a regular charcoal. At 6 months It looked like one. It is now 32 months. Every time it shed it got lighter and lighter. So I'm thinking somewhere somthing is wrong or right, depends how you look at it. I crossed her with my anery this year. If he is Charcoal Ghost I should get 100% Anery het for Charcoal ghost--If only Charcoal Then my offspring should be Normal het for anery, het for charcoal. I think I did ths correctly. Whatever I end up with he is one of my favorites.

Later!
 
Sorry the pic wasn't better I'll try for some more later. I have to charge the camera battery.

Matt
 

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I bought this one as a regular charcoal. I crossed her with my anery this year. If he is Charcoal Ghost I should get 100% Anery het for Charcoal ghost--If only Charcoal Then my offspring should be Normal het for anery, het for charcoal. I think I did ths correctly.
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Hmm, Charcoal X Anery -> Normals het for Charcoal and Anery. If it is a charcoal ghost, you'll get triple hets instead. It's possible he is charcoal het for anery, in which case you would get half normals, half anerys... (lots of other possibilities, too)

Some charcoals are pretty light... dunno about yours. Looks great though. :)
 
Serp,
A het for Anery hadn't crossed my mind--You may be right. I have seen some light charcoals before, but I think you'll agree this is extreme! I'll just have to wait and see.

Thanks Matt
 
hmmm... then how are you suppose to know what is a Pewter and what is a light charcoal??? when they are babies is it easy to tell??? or when you have anerys and charcoals and pewters in one batch is there a way to distinguish what is what? I can tell this is going to be alot harder then what I thought... MATT your snake is very very beautiful... I would love to get one like that whateva it might be...;)
 
Interesting thread guys!..........

I have some things going on that you guys might find interesting.....

First, to answer Corny's question about a Blizzard also homozygous for anery 'A'. I have a pair of Snows het Charcoal that produced a clutch of about 3/4 Snows and 1/4 Blizzards last year. Since the adults are homo for anery 'A' then the Blizzards from that pairing are also homo anery 'A'.

I'll put some info together with some pics of snakes that show ventral abnormalities. So far, these oddities include a mixture of Bloodred, Motley and Milksnake phase. Each one of these seems to have an effect on the ventral pattern. I've also got a few ideas on the connections of the dorsal and ventral patterns. :)
 
Corny... said:
hmmm... then how are you suppose to know what is a Pewter and what is a light charcoal???
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Simple rule, if it has checkers on the belly, it's not a bloodred. There should be no problem telling the difference between charcoals and pewters.

Also, the problem differentiating charcoals from anerys is exactly why I don't like pairings that put anery and charcoal into the same animal. Especially double hets... what do you sell the offspring as, since they could be Anery, Anery het charcoal, Charcoal, Charcoal het Anery, or Charcoal and Anery? Which are they? (!) hehehe

I do, however, like Clint's pairing, since you can tell the blizzards from snows, and it seems to prove that charcoal expresses when both are present, still dunno if anery also expresses... :)
 
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