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Wild Garter size question.

alan

alan

Guest
I saw this Eastern Garter at work this week and I'm sure it's the largest I have seen( that I remember). I measured some parts of the pic in real life and got an av. of about 31.5" of visible length with Serpwidget's app, so it may have been almost 3'. It also had a nice thick body. I looked them up and found several references that said they can reach 48" long, but they don't cite an average length. I was just wondering if anyone was familiar with an average "in the wild length".
When I saw that it was that big I wanted to measure it but when I reached out it shot through the fence, not a chance. Not thinking it would be that fast I reached out to it with my right hand instead of my left hand which was behind it.

Another interesting (to me) question was posed by a co-worker who saw the snake with me (You're not going to touch it are you?!?!). Why does a small snake with no defense from predators advertise itself with a bright yellow stripe? It doesn't look like it in the pics but the stripe is yellow/green and very bright.
garter.jpg

garter1.jpg
 
What you could possibly do is contact your DNR and ask them what is the Record for your state. Eventually you are going to find someone who knows something about herps and can answer your questions.

http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/
Species Information Page
http://www.vafwis.org/fwis/?Menu=Home.Species+Information


Looking around there at the Species Information Page and your state only has 2 Thamnophis species.
Eastern Ribbon Thamnophis sauritus sauritus
Eastern Garter Thamnophis sirtalis sirtalis

As for the average length, its probably any where between 5-48 inches. I guess your best bet is to contact someone who works with herps in your state to find out that information.
 
I think the stripe acts as camoflage in a grassy environment. They didn't evolve to be camoflaged on asphalt.

I've caught some that were in the three-foot plus range. You would have gotten a nice musking! Probably some bites, too!
 
I know it's not huge, but it's still the biggest I've seen in the wild myself. Most have been 18"-24" with the exception of some tiny ones. If you catch 3' plus ones then many must reach that length (or they just grow up and move to FL).
I usually just look, I just wanted to measure it. I don't want them to get the idea that they shouldn't come around there.
 
I caught one of these in the wild and had it for a pet snake. I had him for over a year before i let him go back into the wild. Never got any mites or health problems. And was a great eater. I buy my first corn snake from a pet store and it's got mites. Go figure!
 
The big ones I caught were in central Minnesota, north of the Twin Cities. I've never seen one down here.
 
alan said:
I know it's not huge, but it's still the biggest I've seen in the wild myself. Most have been 18"-24" with the exception of some tiny ones. If you catch 3' plus ones then many must reach that length (or they just grow up and move to FL).
I usually just look, I just wanted to measure it. I don't want them to get the idea that they shouldn't come around there.
Click to expand...

I think to find the really large ones you really need to go to the country side and look for them. Go to the open farm land fields or to large fields that are near water. This is probably the best locations to find the "really" big ones.

I myself haven't seen any of the really large ones that Nanci talked about due to being in the Urban areas myself. I have seen some that measure around 24-30 inches myself again, i found them looking for fox snakes along Railroad tracks near a wetland.

As for the stripe, who says its not a yellow snake with 2 big black stripes on the side? ;)

I agree with Nanci, it looks to be for camouflage, it breaks up the pattern of the snake. make it look like 2 snakes instead of one, or just to help it blend in the grasses. For whatever the reason, Mother Nature and Evolution deemed it good and made it that way.
 
Thanks Jim, Nanci.
I'm going to say it was a nice looking average specimen. It's still the largest I've seen, and it was a nice looking healthy one. I wish I had an actual camera with me, the colors were so nice it must have recently shed.
 
Most of the garters I have caught out roaming have been in tall grass in meadows. That was the first thing I did when I was a kid and we went up to the cabin- race out of the car and run down this two-track road and off into a clearing where there was an enormous pile of shingles. I'd flip through all of that looking for skinks and garters. I'd have a snake within ten minutes of arrival! There were also plentiful red-bellies up there. Clearwater Lake, by Anandale. Every once in a while my dad would stop the car for a big bullsnake crossing the road. I never got to keep those! I never found one up at our cabin, but caught one in northern MN as an adult. I always saw them while road cruising, never flipping or in cover.
 
The grass camoflage makes sense, I didn't think that way. It seemed to me that a long unbroken line would define the body not break it up but:
tricksterpup said:
For whatever the reason, Mother Nature and Evolution deemed it good and made it that way.
Click to expand...
 
The coloration...

when a garter is moving quickly to avoid a predator make the snake look bigger. You (predators really)aim for where it looks like the snake is. Usually by the time you reach for that spot, the snake is no longer there.
Here in Florida I don't think I've ever seen a speciman over thirty inches. And they're mostly green, no yellow.
And mind a bite. They have a counteragent to toad venom in their saliva. I've seen people swell up after a garter bite.

Check out this site:

http://www.gartersnake.co.uk/mycollection.htm
 
Cflaguy said:
when a garter is moving quickly to avoid a predator make the snake look bigger. You (predators really)aim for where it looks like the snake is. Usually by the time you reach for that spot, the snake is no longer there.
Click to expand...
Ah, not camoflage but misdirection. I didn't find that anywhere, thank you.

I've seen people swell up after a garter bite.
Click to expand...
I did find out about the saliva before this, but I have been bitten by a few in the past before I found that out. One bite on the back of my hand( from a crazy, spastic, tiny one I was trying to relocate) swelled slightly and itched a little, but I had no reaction from two others.

diamondlil said:
Nice find, Alan! :cheers:
Click to expand...

Thanks, not hard to find, I think it was basking in the sunlight reflected off of the white wall behind me. It was just after 10 am and the morning was cooler than it has been lately.
 
Camoflage is a part of it....

there is a reason why the garters in Florida don't look like the garters in other parts of the country. They adapt coloration tp habitat. I'm sure once in awhile we get a yellowish garter born here, bur it would stand out more and be easy pickens for predators.
 
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