Tom Tuttle
Fightin the C
He bought them from John Richardson aka Birds Reptile Shop
-
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Need Some Advice
- Thread starter RoseRed
- Start date
He bought them from John Richardson aka Birds Reptile Shop
Nanci
Alien Lover
Okay, so THAT person should be able to file a claim. With his CC company, or PayPal, or whatever.
Is it anyone from here?
Tom Tuttle
Fightin the C
I don't think he frequents this site. I told him to post his experience on the BOI thread. He want to wait until after he gets his $$ back. I wished him good luck.
RoseRed
New member
He/she contacted me as well, it was heart breaking.
Tom Tuttle
Fightin the C
Yeah it's a shame. I sent him photo's of some of the ones I had available last month. I guess he liked Richardson's photo's better. Now He plans to get them from me after he gets reimbursed. He only lives about 25 miles from me.
RoseRed
New member
Pulled this from the BOI thread from username Ryan Beatty,
"Well there's been an interesting development in my case. I sent John an email on the 6th reminding him that my replacements were due to shipped out the week of the 7th. I received an response from him on the 7th saying he was the "real" John Richardson and to give him a call. I wanted to keep everything in writing but I was having trouble sending emails so against my better judgment I called him. He said that someone else had been running his biz under his name and he had access to his paypal account and email. He also said when he went and checked on the animals most of the hatchlings were dead due to neglect. I told him about the BOI thread on him and he said he knew his name was ruined and would be selling out as a result. He assured me that he would be sending me a partial refund via money order in a timely manner."
Now this is what I call a twist in the story (if this were a book). While this situation may be possible and someone could have been impersonating as John Richardson, I have been told stories by whomever the seller was and by this point I don't believe it (until proven otherwise). If this was true, then the true John Richardson should have contacted me since I was the OP that started the BOI thread (at least that makes logical sense to me, since I kind of started this whole ruining his reputation thing).
Here's a url to the BOI in case someone wants it, there was a little more to the post
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1559801#post1559801
"Well there's been an interesting development in my case. I sent John an email on the 6th reminding him that my replacements were due to shipped out the week of the 7th. I received an response from him on the 7th saying he was the "real" John Richardson and to give him a call. I wanted to keep everything in writing but I was having trouble sending emails so against my better judgment I called him. He said that someone else had been running his biz under his name and he had access to his paypal account and email. He also said when he went and checked on the animals most of the hatchlings were dead due to neglect. I told him about the BOI thread on him and he said he knew his name was ruined and would be selling out as a result. He assured me that he would be sending me a partial refund via money order in a timely manner."
Now this is what I call a twist in the story (if this were a book). While this situation may be possible and someone could have been impersonating as John Richardson, I have been told stories by whomever the seller was and by this point I don't believe it (until proven otherwise). If this was true, then the true John Richardson should have contacted me since I was the OP that started the BOI thread (at least that makes logical sense to me, since I kind of started this whole ruining his reputation thing).
Here's a url to the BOI in case someone wants it, there was a little more to the post
http://www.faunaclassifieds.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1559801#post1559801
Tom Tuttle
Fightin the C
How does somebody impersonate another & have access to their finances and the animals? :shrugs:
Will the real Slim Shady please stand up? Eminem
RoseRed
New member
My thoughts as well, it sounds like to me he is trying to get himself out of this situation.
Tom Tuttle
Fightin the C
When all else fails find somebody else to blame. :awcrap: Even if it defies logic. :toiletgra
DragonsDenSerpents
Murphy's Guinea Pig
Isn't that page number 53 out of the scammer's handbook?
dave partington
Crazy Dave
1. I do not have a dog in this race.
2. I have done some homework to put this post together. I am not linking to every source of information in the hopes you will do your own homework too.
3. I have tried to look at the situation dispassionately. Without emotion, as I have nothing to gain from replying. (See #1).
If you paid with a credit card through paypal.
WITH a credit card.
Paypal's purpose is to make money for paypal.
If you pay using a (real, not pre-paid) credit card through paypal, and paypal decides in favor of the seller, then the buyer can call their credit card company to resolve the issue. Be familiar with your credit card company policies regarding chargebacks. Credit card companies almost always provide refunds to their card holders in instances that PayPal fails to.
Checking the BOI will not tell you whether to pay cash or not. Using a credit card is always better when doing business with a seller.
When paying with paypal, there is a space to make a note to the seller what the money is for, in a limited space. Be to the point. State specifically what you are purchasing.
RR, You did the right thing.
Do not have phone conversations at this point.
Paypal will accept emails with full complete headers as evidence.
Paypal does not consider photos to be evidence, because photos can be edited to make them say whatever anyone wants them to say.
Response to everything else further down this post
You cannot keep the item and get a refund for it.
When an item arrives and turns out to be "other than described",
like for instance you bought a cornsnake and received a corn cob-
the buyer should contact the seller via email (never phone) and
ask the seller how to they would like to resolve this problem.
After exchanging a few emails, and keeping all emails the buyer receives from the seller, assuming the seller is a good honest person or company, the two should come to an amicable arrangement. Perhaps the seller gives the buyer a full refund including shipping and says to keep the item. (I have made mistakes as a seller and done this, and I suspect others have, too). For the seller it's a tax deductible educational experience.
The buyer should offer/ask if they can return the item. If the seller replies "No RETURNS NO REFUNDS", then you have this in an email from them. It is against FCC regulation to not accept returns or offer refunds in any online transaction. A domestic (in USA) sellers terms to not override federal regulation, when selling to a customer within the USA. It is FCC regulated because the transaction happened across wires. http://www.fcc.gov/
However, due to cultural differences or other reasoning, sometimes a seller may think differently. At this time, file a dispute with paypal. In essence, try to get as much information from the seller via email, in advance of opening the paypal dispute. It will show paypal the buyer is familiar with paypal rules and regulations for buyers, and indicate to paypal that the seller is not familiar with paypal rules for sellers
It may be quite persuasive to the seller to provide you with an expedient refund if, in emails, you simply suggest that you would prefer not to feel the need to start public online threads on the BOI, etc, should both parties fail to reach an acceptable fix for the incident. However, starting BOI threads prior to the settlement (regardless which way it turns out) may alienate the seller or emotional compromise or ill-will towards the buyer (though it is misplaced ill will and later they will likely have a mental meltdown and lose some self respect, Especially when they later realize it is their fault. Good decisions are seldom made by anyone suffering from emotional distress. Try to keep the emails flying back and forth as much as possible. Keep all copies of sent emails, in case the seller is in the habit of replying withOUT the original email sent.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps in the future, taking a video camera to the FedEx Hub where one picks up and signs for the snakes would be better, (not shipped to a home or some other place, because the driver is on a tight schedule) so there will be real (credible) witnesses (FedEx Employees) present. Be sure to have the employees state their names on the video, their location, etc, to make it as easy as possible for the fine folks at FedEx Corporate to verify if the video is honest, accurate. Even then, FE may not do anything and treat it as an isolated incident. Because after all, FedEx makes thousands of dollars from the seller doing the shipping.
RR, I feel your pain. I have been on both sides of similar situations. Personally, I believe in doing the right things in order usually yields a most favorable response. When all else fails, the BOI is still there. Thanks for sharing.
dp
2. I have done some homework to put this post together. I am not linking to every source of information in the hopes you will do your own homework too.
3. I have tried to look at the situation dispassionately. Without emotion, as I have nothing to gain from replying. (See #1).
If you paid with a credit card through paypal.
WITH a credit card.
Paypal's purpose is to make money for paypal.
If you pay using a (real, not pre-paid) credit card through paypal, and paypal decides in favor of the seller, then the buyer can call their credit card company to resolve the issue. Be familiar with your credit card company policies regarding chargebacks. Credit card companies almost always provide refunds to their card holders in instances that PayPal fails to.
Checking the BOI will not tell you whether to pay cash or not. Using a credit card is always better when doing business with a seller.
When paying with paypal, there is a space to make a note to the seller what the money is for, in a limited space. Be to the point. State specifically what you are purchasing.
RR, You did the right thing.
Do not have phone conversations at this point.
Paypal will accept emails with full complete headers as evidence.
Paypal does not consider photos to be evidence, because photos can be edited to make them say whatever anyone wants them to say.
Response to everything else further down this post
You cannot keep the item and get a refund for it.
When an item arrives and turns out to be "other than described",
like for instance you bought a cornsnake and received a corn cob-
the buyer should contact the seller via email (never phone) and
ask the seller how to they would like to resolve this problem.
After exchanging a few emails, and keeping all emails the buyer receives from the seller, assuming the seller is a good honest person or company, the two should come to an amicable arrangement. Perhaps the seller gives the buyer a full refund including shipping and says to keep the item. (I have made mistakes as a seller and done this, and I suspect others have, too). For the seller it's a tax deductible educational experience.
The buyer should offer/ask if they can return the item. If the seller replies "No RETURNS NO REFUNDS", then you have this in an email from them. It is against FCC regulation to not accept returns or offer refunds in any online transaction. A domestic (in USA) sellers terms to not override federal regulation, when selling to a customer within the USA. It is FCC regulated because the transaction happened across wires. http://www.fcc.gov/
However, due to cultural differences or other reasoning, sometimes a seller may think differently. At this time, file a dispute with paypal. In essence, try to get as much information from the seller via email, in advance of opening the paypal dispute. It will show paypal the buyer is familiar with paypal rules and regulations for buyers, and indicate to paypal that the seller is not familiar with paypal rules for sellers
It may be quite persuasive to the seller to provide you with an expedient refund if, in emails, you simply suggest that you would prefer not to feel the need to start public online threads on the BOI, etc, should both parties fail to reach an acceptable fix for the incident. However, starting BOI threads prior to the settlement (regardless which way it turns out) may alienate the seller or emotional compromise or ill-will towards the buyer (though it is misplaced ill will and later they will likely have a mental meltdown and lose some self respect, Especially when they later realize it is their fault. Good decisions are seldom made by anyone suffering from emotional distress. Try to keep the emails flying back and forth as much as possible. Keep all copies of sent emails, in case the seller is in the habit of replying withOUT the original email sent.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Perhaps in the future, taking a video camera to the FedEx Hub where one picks up and signs for the snakes would be better, (not shipped to a home or some other place, because the driver is on a tight schedule) so there will be real (credible) witnesses (FedEx Employees) present. Be sure to have the employees state their names on the video, their location, etc, to make it as easy as possible for the fine folks at FedEx Corporate to verify if the video is honest, accurate. Even then, FE may not do anything and treat it as an isolated incident. Because after all, FedEx makes thousands of dollars from the seller doing the shipping.
RR, I feel your pain. I have been on both sides of similar situations. Personally, I believe in doing the right things in order usually yields a most favorable response. When all else fails, the BOI is still there. Thanks for sharing.
dp
Last edited:
RoseRed
New member
Thanks dave partington for the advice (and the time it took to write that all down) I am still new and am still learning as I go. After this incident, home deliveries don't sound so good anyway.
On a side note, I have a little video on an update on the two snakes, in case anyone is interested in actually seeing them rather than read my written updates. I usually put paper towels in the deli cups, so I never noticed L1 trying to get through them, I shall have to get new deli cups. Oh, and I meant to say L1 is the one that tries the most to escape, haven't had an escape yet, cross my fingers I won't.
On a side note, I have a little video on an update on the two snakes, in case anyone is interested in actually seeing them rather than read my written updates. I usually put paper towels in the deli cups, so I never noticed L1 trying to get through them, I shall have to get new deli cups. Oh, and I meant to say L1 is the one that tries the most to escape, haven't had an escape yet, cross my fingers I won't.
diamondlil
Mice! They taste so nice!
They are doing so well in your care! Thanks for the update
dave partington
Crazy Dave
Meg, re: seller agreed to refund the money without getting the animals back
I have seen no emails with complete headers from either party on the BOI thread.
Which is why it is important to use a computer, not another device, when negotiating a settlement with the other party.
So I do not know the order in which things occurred.
From what I have seen on this thread and BOI,
it looks to me like
Buyer receives incorrect item
1. Buyer is encouraged to start a BOI thread
2. Buyer is encouraged to keep the item
3. Buyer is encouraged to open a paypal dispute
I do not know if RR suggested to seller that she was going to keep the snakes
or if the seller told RR to keep them without being encouraged to tell her to keep them.
There is much good advice on this thread, and it has all been followed.
Perhaps in another lifetime, if events had happened in a different order, the outcome may have been different.
The buyer has 45 days to open a paypal dispute from the date the payment is made.
Much emotionally charged advice was given encouraging hasty action.
The order in which I would have used, because I have 45 days to gather intel, would be:
1. Contact the seller via email only, to try to come to a mutually acceptable settlement, without encouraging the seller to let me keep the item. If that failed, then I would perhaps use the tactic of suggesting I would tell my friends what happened. That vaguely, in a non-threatening way. No mention of the BOI. I would not want for Paypal to see in an email that I was threatening retaliation in an email. NO phone communication.
2. Open paypal dispute. Do not escalate it, as this encourages paypal to make fast hasty decisions. Keeping in mind paypal generates income for paypal, off the seller from the 2-3% paypal skims off the top, paypal may likely side with what is best for paypal.
3. If I do not receive a refund, then I might choose to create a BOI thread.
-------------------------------------------------
I keep learning as I go.
--------------------------------------------
Much excellent good advice is in the "Sticky" threads at the top of the BOI.
-------------------------
I do not have a dog in this race.
I have seen no emails with complete headers from either party on the BOI thread.
Which is why it is important to use a computer, not another device, when negotiating a settlement with the other party.
So I do not know the order in which things occurred.
From what I have seen on this thread and BOI,
it looks to me like
Buyer receives incorrect item
1. Buyer is encouraged to start a BOI thread
2. Buyer is encouraged to keep the item
3. Buyer is encouraged to open a paypal dispute
I do not know if RR suggested to seller that she was going to keep the snakes
or if the seller told RR to keep them without being encouraged to tell her to keep them.
There is much good advice on this thread, and it has all been followed.
Perhaps in another lifetime, if events had happened in a different order, the outcome may have been different.
The buyer has 45 days to open a paypal dispute from the date the payment is made.
Much emotionally charged advice was given encouraging hasty action.
The order in which I would have used, because I have 45 days to gather intel, would be:
1. Contact the seller via email only, to try to come to a mutually acceptable settlement, without encouraging the seller to let me keep the item. If that failed, then I would perhaps use the tactic of suggesting I would tell my friends what happened. That vaguely, in a non-threatening way. No mention of the BOI. I would not want for Paypal to see in an email that I was threatening retaliation in an email. NO phone communication.
2. Open paypal dispute. Do not escalate it, as this encourages paypal to make fast hasty decisions. Keeping in mind paypal generates income for paypal, off the seller from the 2-3% paypal skims off the top, paypal may likely side with what is best for paypal.
3. If I do not receive a refund, then I might choose to create a BOI thread.
-------------------------------------------------
I keep learning as I go.
--------------------------------------------
Much excellent good advice is in the "Sticky" threads at the top of the BOI.
-------------------------
I do not have a dog in this race.
Last edited:
dave partington
Crazy Dave
Two additional notes:
Once the dispute with paypal has been initiated, it is best to stop all further communication with the other party.
There is a lot of info which I have been careful to avoid, such as mentioning tactics which disreputable sellers (of anything) might use to encourage the buyer to make poor decisions such as dropping the dispute before paypal has made a judgement call. I am not saying what or how because I have no control over who reads these posts.
Once the dispute with paypal has been initiated, it is best to stop all further communication with the other party.
There is a lot of info which I have been careful to avoid, such as mentioning tactics which disreputable sellers (of anything) might use to encourage the buyer to make poor decisions such as dropping the dispute before paypal has made a judgement call. I am not saying what or how because I have no control over who reads these posts.
Tom Tuttle
Fightin the C
Yes he is a newer member here.
dave partington
Crazy Dave
This was a fun video, thanks for sharing. I shot you a PM earlier today about deli cup sourcing, but later thought about this kewl idea I first heard of from Nanci.
Sandwich containers from the Wallymarket.
The cheap ones, in the picnic paper plate area. The cheap ones stack up the best without toppling over.
They run under 2.50 for 5,
and a conventional paper napkin fits inside perfectly. (which some may learn to hide under)
Use a soldering iron (I get mine at a Harbor Freight store for $3.00)
to poke some holes in them, doing so in an outdoor or well ventilated place. Just an idea. HTH.
dp
