A couple of pics of some my collection.

[The Snake Guru]

personally ive kept/keep and bred most locaities including sorong,merauke,aru,biak,oxbil and wamena and apart from the humidity and size different i cant say theres a single difference in temperment in them.
I am slightly confused by your use of the word bar neck.....bar neck isnt a locality of scrub python. its simply a patten on 2 localities which are sorongs and meraukes, but not all of them have proper barnecking.

Well I don't know if that speaks to your inability to notice the differences in temperment but it wouldn't be the first time I've heard the statement (which doesn't make it right). At anyrate I have to disagree, as there is quite a varied range of temperments in Scrubs both between C.B, W.C, and Local.

Also Meraukes hardly ever have "Barnecks" or if they do it is more of shaded lines on the few adjoining scales from the top of the head to the neck area, and not actual banding. There are 3 locals of Barnecks you got the one, the other two are Jayapura, and Kofiau all three have distinct differences in color and pattern.

Interesting for someone who was supposed to make quite the entrance, I expected more.

I will say this though, you've got one very beautiful girl there.
Cheers,

~B~

 

[snakewispera snr]

Interesting for someone who was supposed to make quite the entrance, I expected more.



~B~

Who said anything about making an entrance, I just said he keeps scrubs and I think he may import them.......

 

[Kokopelli]

The point I was trying to make, and from my understanding- we all agreed upon- is that not everyone -can- care for large constrictors and currently it is very easy for almost anyone to buy a baby retic for instance.

I also believe that people who are capable of correctly caring for these animals are not as common as Mike might believe- IMHO we're talking about a select few who dedicate themselves to do it.

Only people with -alot- of discipline to follow protocol will be able to care for hots/large constrictors- else they end up being hurt themselves or even worse- jeopardize their neighbors or even the eco-system.

Due to these reasons, I usually try to deter people from getting them- unless said person is an adult, of sound mind and body, and is fully aware of what he is getting himself into. Most people I know, are -not- ready to handle such a thing, including myself- and frankly, I don't think I have what it takes to do so. I will stick to small BCI....

 

[wildlifewarrior1]

Well I don't know if that speaks to your inability to notice the differences in temperment but it wouldn't be the first time I've heard the statement (which doesn't make it right). At anyrate I have to disagree, as there is quite a varied range of temperments in Scrubs both between C.B, W.C, and Local.

Also Meraukes hardly ever have "Barnecks" or if they do it is more of shaded lines on the few adjoining scales from the top of the head to the neck area, and not actual banding. There are 3 locals of Barnecks you got the one, the other two are Jayapura, and Kofiau all three have distinct differences in color and pattern.

Interesting for someone who was supposed to make quite the entrance, I expected more.

I will say this though, you've got one very beautiful girl there.
Cheers,

~B~

I fine the "Interesting for someone who was supposed to make quite the entrance, I expected more." comes across as quite defensive. i wasnt making an entrance at, simply putting my opinions across, just like you were

I do think how ever you will fine meraukes have ALOT of bar necking on them.....ive imported enough to stand firm on my word to this.

I would slightly agree with you that Kofiau do exibit some bar necking but no where near enough to be considered a barneck....as for Jayapura, i have to disagree, this is often a talking point when people tell me this and orginally i thought they were. They are meraukes that are simply shipped from jayapura. its just like the retic lcoalites such as sulawesi retics that are sold as makassar,,,,even though they dont come from that localityes but simply named after the shipping port.

I didnt say there wasnt differnce in WC and CB animals....but i dont feel there is difference in localities...i wouldnt say it was via an inability i have....but more by my experince of what i have noticed from importing and breeding them. But each to there own, i was sharing my opinion as you have shared yours aswell, although yours does come across as slighly more deffensive, rather than a disccusion.

cheers

 

[The Snake Guru]

To each his own....before I leave this conversation I leave you with the following:

Jayapura:

Sorong:

Kofiau:

And Barnecks all.....just 3 examples.
As for Maraukes....I've had them quite a few of them in fact, not one had anything that could be considered a Barneck...I just don't keep them anymore because I never cared for the looks of them.

Anyway, that's enough of this one for me.
~B~

 

[snakewispera snr]

The point I was trying to make, and from my understanding- we all agreed upon- is that not everyone -can- care for large constrictors and currently it is very easy for almost anyone to buy a baby retic for instance.

I also believe that people who are capable of correctly caring for these animals are not as common as Mike might believe- IMHO we're talking about a select few who dedicate themselves to do it.

Only people with -alot- of discipline to follow protocol will be able to care for hots/large constrictors- else they end up being hurt themselves or even worse- jeopardize their neighbors or even the eco-system.

Due to these reasons, I usually try to deter people from getting them- unless said person is an adult, of sound mind and body, and is fully aware of what he is getting himself into. Most people I know, are -not- ready to handle such a thing, including myself- and frankly, I don't think I have what it takes to do so. I will stick to small BCI....

This is going a bit off topic...
I understand your point Oren and agree somewhat, but this thread is more about people coming to C.S. with opinions based on google and not actual species based knowledge from keeping them...
The other threads consisted of wrong sizes wrong husbandry needs and wrong temperaments all based on nothing more than opinions from the net...
This thread is to cut through the BS and show people that some of these snakes, although big, are not the evil aggressive monsters they are made out to be... Or are they? So if anyone keeps any of these said species and have owned them as adults for a while, let us know about them...

I fine the "Interesting for someone who was supposed to make quite the entrance, I expected more." comes across as quite defensive. i wasnt making an entrance at, simply putting my opinions across, just like you were

I do think how ever you will fine meraukes have ALOT of bar necking on them.....ive imported enough to stand firm on my word to this.

I would slightly agree with you that Kofiau do exibit some bar necking but no where near enough to be considered a barneck....as for Jayapura, i have to disagree, this is often a talking point when people tell me this and orginally i thought they were. They are meraukes that are simply shipped from jayapura. its just like the retic lcoalites such as sulawesi retics that are sold as makassar,,,,even though they dont come from that localityes but simply named after the shipping port.

I didnt say there wasnt differnce in WC and CB animals....but i dont feel there is difference in localities...i wouldnt say it was via an inability i have....but more by my experince of what i have noticed from importing and breeding them. But each to there own, i was sharing my opinion as you have shared yours aswell, although yours does come across as slighly more deffensive, rather than a disccusion.

cheers

Hi Christian, you finally got here... LOL
Cheers for taking time out to show us some of your snakes and explain a bit about them... Great info......
Stick around for a while, and show us some more pics of the others....

To each his own....before I leave this conversation I leave you with the following:

Jayapura:

Sorong:

Kofiau:

And Barnecks all.....just 3 examples.
As for Maraukes....I've had them quite a few of them in fact, not one had anything that could be considered a Barneck...I just don't keep them anymore because I never cared for the looks of them.

Anyway, that's enough of this one for me.
~B~

Some nice pics you have there.... How big are they?
And don't go yet, after all you were the one that made the entrance with 'Here I am' so stuck around and talk Morelia Amethistina with us, as this is a species I see catching on as an alternative to Burms Retics etc and with captive breeding and more informed people coming around every day I believe the stigma of aggression may become a thing of the past....

 

[wildlifewarrior1]

To each his own....before I leave this conversation I leave you with the following:

Jayapura:

Sorong:

Kofiau:

And Barnecks all.....just 3 examples.
As for Maraukes....I've had them quite a few of them in fact, not one had anything that could be considered a Barneck...I just don't keep them anymore because I never cared for the looks of them.

Anyway, that's enough of this one for me.
~B~

Very snake snakes you have there

I take it you have the importation documentation when you brought these?

I have to say you could have chosen better photos to back up your statment.

your Jayapura is simply a patternless merauke in my opinin. Which is a fantastic snake but you have just shown that its got no barnecking on it...the black scalation on the heads is common on most amethistinas including Kei and aru locaity. The actual barnecking is in referance to the pattern down the snakes back....hence the name barNECKS and not heads.

again with your Kofiau, they arent bars...they are bloches of black that are over it...its not actually baring across the snake, more like a wish wash of black.

as you can see a perfect unbroken baring all down the snake which gives it the common name of barnecks,,,,although as i said a barneck isnt a locality its just a pattern, thus actual locaity names are best.

 

[The Snake Guru]

I'm going to be nice as possible here.

1. I do, and know exactly where my snakes came from.

2. the picture you have now posted is a Tiger Phase Barneck.....Barnecks are exactly that 2 to 4 Bars behind the head thus the name "Barneck". If you'll see the large scales on the head and notice the transition from that to small scales of the body (the neck area) you'll notice the bars are on the small scales not the head scales.

3. I don't know where you get this whole Marauke thing because Maraukes look nothing like Barnecks, they are clouded, and blotched and faded...so I surmise that whoever it is you are importing them from is either taking you for a ride, or something....because it's not a local that that even looks that great "in my opinion"....and isn't even closely able to be mixed up with others.

4. I know, I know....surely this could go on forever and I'm sure it would, as I've delt with quite a few people from your neck of the woods, they all pride themselves on locality, locality, locality....and yet you still end up with Meraukes being Mistaken for Jayas, or Sorongs, or whatever.....honestly I could care less, you want to call your Meraukes Barnecks, fine have at it....I have not the time nor the energy to play name the local. You and I could produce papers all day long and you know niether one of us is going to give.

So I agree to disagree and leave it at that.

~B~

 

[wildlifewarrior1]

I'm going to be nice as possible here.

1. I do, and know exactly where my snakes came from.

2. the picture you have now posted is a Tiger Phase Barneck.....Barnecks are exactly that 2 to 4 Bars behind the head thus the name "Barneck". If you'll see the large scales on the head and notice the transition from that to small scales of the body (the neck area) you'll notice the bars are on the small scales not the head scales.

3. I don't know where you get this whole Marauke thing because Maraukes look nothing like Barnecks, they are clouded, and blotched and faded...so I surmise that whoever it is you are importing them from is either taking you for a ride, or something....because it's not a local that that even looks that great "in my opinion"....and isn't even closely able to be mixed up with others.

4. I know, I know....surely this could go on forever and I'm sure it would, as I've delt with quite a few people from your neck of the woods, they all pride themselves on locality, locality, locality....and yet you still end up with Meraukes being Mistaken for Jayas, or Sorongs, or whatever.....honestly I could care less, you want to call your Meraukes Barnecks, fine have at it....I have not the time nor the energy to play name the local. You and I could produce papers all day long and you know niether one of us is going to give.

So I agree to disagree and leave it at that.

~B~

Once again you come across as rather aggressive and defensive. I joined here hoping for a good discussion but seems more of a my way or the highway chat.

I did have a little chuckle about the tiger phase if i am honest, ive only ever heard this phrase when i was at hamm and it was from 2 usa breeders trying to sell sorongs with an extra 170 euros on them. a locality is a locality at the end of the day, you can add what ever silly name onto it,it doesnt change the facts.

if they only have 2-4 bars then that means most of them arent even barnecks that exist. As i am sure you know before they are re-classifed nearly 10 years ago the name barnecks came from the queensland locaity of the kinghorni due to there barnecks...but after borders were closed amethistina were imported from sorong and merauke mainly which also had this similar pattening so they moved the barneck name onto these snakes as ther baring when down over 1/2 of there back, most amethistina have your so called 2-4 strips,...even aru ,wanema and so on so. even other speices from the complex have these aswell.

As for the taking for a ride part, i highly doubt it...i gather your a importor your self? in which case you will be aware of the legal export shipping documentation that comes with the animals. I have been importing into the uk and france for nearly 10 years and have very strong bonds with my exportors, not to mention having imported everything from your viper boas all the way to your timor pythons.

as for who/where i get this stuff from....well mainly from my own experince but also from david and tracy barkers studies, also mark o shea's studies and experince on them, and last but not least Jon griffin, who as a past keeper of scrubs your self and also a importor am sure you will know him extremely well.

I think i will bow out of this, i simply came on for a chat and discuss about scrubs but seems to be more of a brawl

 

[The Snake Guru]

Well look at this way....at least you got one chuckle in before you left.

LOL

I do so love the UK.....you guys are always a riot.

~B~

 

[Michael823]

I thought "Bar necking" was something totally different, at least it sounds like it's some sort of euphemism. I would never "bar neck" a scrub, but to each their own I suppose, lol!

 

[snakewispera snr]

You really didn't think I was going to invite some one in for a chat who was just an opinionated hobbiest did you....
Now if all you wanted was someone to agree with you, you should of said..... I can find tumps of those......

 

[The Snake Guru]

As far as I know he is an opinionated hobbiest....I can go and throw around big names, and numbers all day long too. Hell you can be a opinionated Importer too....wouldn't make much of difference.

With the thousands of snakes I've delt with and seen I can say with reasonable certainity...there is a difference between locals and wether it has 2 bars or 16 million a Barneck is a Barneck no matter what phase it comes in....and a Marauke is not.

At anyrate I could care less who agrees with me or not, I know what I know through experience and research, and unless someone pops up with some more definitive proof to say otherwise I will not take take it on faith that just because "he said" it's something differnt. That's how things get messed up in the first place....too many people hitting up the "He said", "she said" and then calling it the gospel truth.

No offense but I don't you, I don't know him....he could come here and tell me he's the pope, and it might be true....but I'll tell you one thing, I ain't kissing his ring without being absolutely sure.

So there ya have it, I honestly didn't mean to get things rolling on a bad note, but don't expect me to bow down just because he "says" he's been an importer for 10 years....hell I wouldn't even then because I know plenty of importers and hobbiests a like that do what they do and don't really have a clue. As far as you know I could be one of those too, and I get that.

~B~

 

[dndvictory]

Awesome, beautiful creatures.




Dave

 

[CARTOON_HEAD]

wow, didn't think my little thread would turn into a acrub debate LOL. Snake guru you seem very defensive in your post when wildlifewarrior disagreed with you. In this hobbie there are always going to be disagrements. i know wildlifewarrior feom our other forum and i must say he's very knowledgable in this department so i would imagen he's correct but i don't know much about scrubs apart from sizes. Snake guru there's no need to jump on the defence in a debate you might wven learn some things

 

[SNAKEWISPERA]

Very snake snakes you have there

I take it you have the importation documentation when you brought these?

I have to say you could have chosen better photos to back up your statment.

your Jayapura is simply a patternless merauke in my opinin. Which is a fantastic snake but you have just shown that its got no barnecking on it...the black scalation on the heads is common on most amethistinas including Kei and aru locaity. The actual barnecking is in referance to the pattern down the snakes back....hence the name barNECKS and not heads.

again with your Kofiau, they arent bars...they are bloches of black that are over it...its not actually baring across the snake, more like a wish wash of black.

as you can see a perfect unbroken baring all down the snake which gives it the common name of barnecks,,,,although as i said a barneck isnt a locality its just a pattern, thus actual locaity names are best.

Totally agree with you there mate... Lovely scrubs you got there...

Its a shame the Americans make funny names up for almost all of there snakes :grin01:

 

[Kokopelli]

aren't there scientific studies regarding the features and differences between said localities?
Honestly I have seen -thousands- of papers, all of which are scientific, about Lampropeltis Mexicana... if such a distant group evoked such a scientific interest... I find it hard to believe that these pythons did not... Either way I really do believe that the argument is about semantics... and I also know that rules generaly apply to -most- of a local population rather than -all-. You'll always have snakes that do not fit with the general rule...

I am -so- ignorant about these snakes that I won't go further... just thought maybe you'll find answer if you look in scientific papers.

Either way I think this discussion became a tad over-tempered for no reason at all... It's something so small that it is more than likely that you will find people who disagree on it.

Just my two cents,
flame away :sidestep:

 

[snakewispera snr]

wow, didn't think my little thread would turn into a acrub debate LOL. Snake guru you seem very defensive in your post when wildlifewarrior disagreed with you. In this hobbie there are always going to be disagrements. i know wildlifewarrior feom our other forum and i must say he's very knowledgable in this department so i would imagen he's correct but i don't know much about scrubs apart from sizes. Snake guru there's no need to jump on the defence in a debate you might wven learn some things

Sorry Ryan, someone mentioned Scrubs, I know they are Morelia but I figured Christian would Know more about them.... LOL

2. the picture you have now posted is a Tiger Phase Barneck.....

~B~

I've googled Tiger phase barneck and nothing comes up for them.....

 

[diamondlil]

That stripey snake (the barneck?) is spectacular!

 

[snakewispera snr]

I have got this off Jon Griffen though...
[FONT=&quot]Morelia amethistina:

Barnecks
Sorong "bar neck" average size 10-12ft
Merauke or sothern "bar neck" average size 10-12ft
Highlands
Wamena or cental irian highlands average size 9-10ft
Oxbil or central irian highlands average size 9-10ft
Islands
Aru islands average size 9-10ft
Biak islands average size 9-10ft

Morelia nauta: Tanimbar islands average size 6-8ft

Morelia clastolepis: Seram, ambon and buru (formerly known as the seram amethistine average size 10-12ft

Morelia tracyae: Halmerhera and surrounding small islands average size 8-10ft

Morelia kinghorni: Australia average size 12-14ft[/FONT]