Eggs - our first breeding.

[repti_girl]

So we recently found out that what we thought was a female is actually a male, but we found out a little late (after courtship)...anyways this led to one of our girls being gravid.
On sunday she laid her eggs.
Now the wait.
If anyone has any tips/hints for us that would be great.
Thanks

 

[Teddy Roosevelt]

One of the dangers of cohabbing... Was your snake knocked up by the snow that sadly died?

 

[repti_girl]

No, he was out of the enclosure long before this happened. And yes I am well aware of the dangers of co-habbing, I know I will probably get some flack from that, but to each their own.

 

[bitsy]

If anyone has any tips/hints for us that would be great.

The first thing you should check, is whether you'll be able to sell any hatchlings in your area. If this looks like it's going to be difficult, then put the eggs in the freezer now. Harsh, but will save a lot of worry and money in the long run.

Hatchlings need separate accommodation, so start planning your tubs, heating system, water containers and hides. Best to gradually buy in additional kit in advance and not have a hit on your finances all at once come hatching time. Be aware that if you have to buy new stuff, you probably won't make the money back by selling the hatchlings in year one (unless they'll be rare/expensive morphs).

 

[danielle]

I vote freezer, but thats only because if you cohab now your going to cohab your hatchlings and probably not invest in proper heating and housing for them Your going to deal with non feeders so be prepared to waste a whole lot of pinks if you hatch these eggs and then of course the expense of selling them like shipping supplies, advertising, and of course your time. This really isn't me being rude, but have you thought about the financial demands 20+ hatchlings will incur at all?

 

[Teddy Roosevelt]

I vote freezer, but thats only because if you cohab now your going to cohab your hatchlings and probably not invest in proper heating and housing for them Your going to deal with non feeders so be prepared to waste a whole lot of pinks if you hatch these eggs and then of course the expense of selling them like shipping supplies, advertising, and of course your time. This really isn't me being rude, but have you thought about the financial demands 20+ hatchlings will incur at all?

Have to agree with Danielle here. Even though it sounds really harsh and you're probably going to want to defend yourself, think for a moment from our point of view; you could have the most perfect husbandry in the world and be cohabbing in a 500gal tank, but all we know about you so far is that you had a snake begin regurging and die, which seems to have been due to a combo of stress and overfeeding, and you've basically said "yeah I know it's not really good but I'm doing it anyway so" to the notion that you should cease cohabbing. Again, you could have the most perfect husbandry in the world, and buyers already lined up for your snakes, but we don't know that. All we know so far is the brief glimpse you've given us, and based on that, it's probably not the right time for you to be working with hatching eggs.

 

[Kali]

I vote freezer, but thats only because if you cohab now your going to cohab your hatchlings and probably not invest in proper heating and housing for them

All we know so far is the brief glimpse you've given us, and based on that, it's probably not the right time for you to be working with hatching eggs.

Indeed that sounds harsh. For all you know, she might be wanting to do it now completely the way you would like it. After all, she came here for advise.
Wouldn't it be worse if she was denied proper advise and goes ahead with it in a wrong way? Quite a judgement she gets from that "brief glimpse".
And I'm not saying here that you are necessarily wrong, just saying you can't be sure. I believe more people started out the wrong way, even with more attitude about it, and changed their ways afterwards.
Asking for advise and looking up info is the best she can do now.

 

[Teddy Roosevelt]

Indeed that sounds harsh. For all you know, she might be wanting to do it now completely the way you would like it. After all, she came here for advise.
Wouldn't it be worse if she was denied proper advise and goes ahead with it in a wrong way? Quite a judgement she gets from that "brief glimpse".
And I'm not saying here that you are necessarily wrong, just saying you can't be sure. I believe more people started out the wrong way, even with more attitude about it, and changed their ways afterwards.
Asking for advise and looking up info is the best she can do now.

Right, that was exactly my point. We don't know. We don't know anything about her care or what she plans to do if she does hatch them, all we know is there's one snake dead and now she has accidental eggs. Like I said, she could have the most fabulous husbandry in the world, the kind that'd put big breeders to shame, and we would not know because we are not psychic and can't tell without her letting us. She's more than welcome to come back and dazzle us with new information on her care standards and her plans for the babies now, but as of right this moment the only thing anyone here knows about her points to "don't try breeding just yet."

 

[Kali]

But then why refuse advise?

 

[Buzzard]

Kali, I agree with you here. It was a call for advice not a bashing. Sometimes people get caught up on 1 point that they cant see the whole picture. Without being this person or knowing all the fact we shouldnt judge. However

I think Bitsy put it best. You have roughly 60 days to get things arranged. Find some people that will help take the babies off your hands. Make sure you can house them seperate. Afford the food. Babies eat a lot.... every 5 days. It can get costly. READ... find all the info you can on egg/ hatchling care. Kathy Love's book is a excellent resource along with several other books out there. If there is a local reptile club, attend a meeting ask someone who has experience. This is also a great place to find someone to take any unwanted babies off your hands. Also might be a good place to find a good supplier of pinkies....

 

[repti_girl]

Well, that was a lot written with some advise. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and yes I understand that you don't know me yet. I know that people will have mixed reviews on our enclosure set up for our adults, but I can guarantee that our husbandry is the best any "hobby" individual can provide - what I mean by that is that you aren't a trained individual in snake keeping or haven't been in the trade for more than 10 years yet.
The male that died was not in with everyone else, and the thread was started when I was still quite emotional - he had problems since we picked him up from a breeder, there was always something wrong.

Now back to the original topic - we already have homes arranged for our hatchlings, and we know that each one will be housed separately. We are well aware of the feeding requirements. I was just wondering if there was any resources that we could look at. And thank you for suggesting Kathy Love's info. I will definitely read over that.

 

[wasuslitherin]

Good luck!! If you do decide to hatcj them (hopefully), then I will be first in line for pictures!!
........................................................................................................................
p.s. they are harsh b/c they they don't remember learning, asking advice, making mistakes.

 

[danielle]

I was not harsh at all guys. I have been breeding geckos for 8 years and kept them by the book for years before I EVER considered breeding. This is ideal and of course not the way many great breeders with eons more experience than me started. My point was to stress the financial and time constraints 20 hatchlings will put on anyone and that is advice. You will need 20 shoebox containers more or less depending on how many eggs were laid and actually hatch, 1,000 pinkies to start, many many UTH's or about 24 yrds of heat tape, multiple thermostats at least 4, several hides and water bowls, 2 bales of aspen, money for advertising, and at least an hour a day to devote to cleaning and feeding. In total were talking $1,110 to hatch and care for these guys just to start.

My advice is really think about how ready and/or capable you are to expend this kind of money and time because its easy to say "yeah I want a snake when you hatch one", and another thing for all those yes people to actually give that snake a home. If you are prepared to care for these guys properly until you find them homes than congrats and I want pippy pics, but if not your not a bad person at all and the freezer is free

 

[dionythicus]

I've never spent that kind of money on hatchlings, even when I had a couple clutches. Individual tubs can come from the dollar store, water dishes that double as hides are $2 each (IIRC) at Petco or another pet store, and they are dishwasher safe. Pinks are pretty cheap, even looking at 1,000 of them, it should still be less than $500 (more than that is a rip off). Use paper towels as substrate, its cheaper than aspen and easier to keep clean and use empty toilet paper rolls for extra hides. My reptile room stays nice and evenly warm, so I don't usually use extra heat for the babies, unless they are having feeding issues. Most of them do fine.

The biggest problem is finding homes for them and you will find that many people who now say YES! will not actually take them once they're ready. There is definitely more time taken up by hatchlings with feeding and cleaning. There may be heartache with deformed hatchlings, non feeders and other problems.

Breeding is exciting, but sometimes it is better to wait until you're better equipped and not scrambling to make up for a beginner's mistake. If you choose to incubate the eggs, good for you. If you choose the freezer, good for you, too.

 

[ComoxCorn]

My point was to stress the financial and time constraints 20 hatchlings will put on anyone and that is advice. You will need 20 shoebox containers more or less depending on how many eggs were laid and actually hatch, 1,000 pinkies to start, many many UTH's or about 24 yrds of heat tape, multiple thermostats at least 4, several hides and water bowls, 2 bales of aspen, money for advertising, and at least an hour a day to devote to cleaning and feeding. In total were talking $1,110 to hatch and care for these guys just to start.

I think these numbers are more than "a little" off. I reared 72 hatchlings this past season and I'll break down the costs.

Five shelf bookshelf (hatchling rack) - $59.99 (Home Depot)
Sixteen ft. 4" flexwatt tape - $40.00 (Beanfarm) (Rack is back heated)
Heat tape connectors and wiring - approx $10.00 (Home Depot)
Single pole dimmer and housing box - $10.00 (Home Depot)
Hatchling tubs - 72 came to $54.00 (Real Canadian Superstore)
Paper towel as substrate - approx $10.00 (Real Canadian Superstore)
Water dishes - 5.00 (used the throw away condiment dishes)
Toilet paper tubes for hides (free..comes with the TP)
650 pinkies - $200.00 (that's 9 feedings each)

Feeding time took about 90 minutes on each feeding day. I don't associate any cost with it...comes with the territory.

Grand total - $388.99 before tax....$437.61 after taxes. That was for 72 hatchlings and this coming year I can re-use most of the equipment. I'll only need to buy pinkies and paper towels and maybe a few more water dishes.

The biggest challenge I see here is for repti_girl to find new homes for these snakes, but perhaps talk to a few REPUTABLE local pet stores ahead of time to see if they may be interested.

Repti_girl. I am also in Canada. You can call me if you have any questions on how to hatch out the eggs. My number is in my logo.

 

[Buzzard]

Yes, I think Danielles pricing is high but she makes some very good points. Also prices can vary pending on where you live. But we each also have our own ways and some of us (like myself) are stubborn and get use to a certain level of care/ equipment.
So though her pricing might be high for us, it maybe about right for her. Either way a good number of hatchling will cost a pretty penny anyway you look at it.

I just hope everything works out. And we would love to see pippy pics...
If you can, Take a few pics of the eggs. I would love to see them, are they large eggs or small? Also do a search on the forum for egg care/ hatchling care, that should help. And then ask away here for some advice.....

 

[danielle]

I priced cost in the following ways...

.50 per pink for 1,000 pinks with the shipping included in the .50= $500
20 sterilite shoeboxes at $2 a piece after taxes= $40
advertising expenses= $20-$40
Heat tape= $60
thermostats= $400 because I use backup stats on everyone
hides/water bowls= $30
aspen 2 bales= $40

Grand total= $1,100 give or take for my area at least

Sure most of this stuff can be used next season and throughout the year so this total is not in anyway reflecting yearly cost, but startup cost If breeding is not something you plan to do each year then kicking out this type of money for a one shot season may not be in one's financial best interest considering your going to get around $15 per hatchling at 20 hatchlings= $300 again give or take. This still puts you negative $800 for an accidental breeding which only in my opinion is a steep price to pay. So all I can say is my reasoning leads me to believe I would not chose to hatch these eggs unless I planned on breeding each season and was breeding to attain a goal of a certain morph or look I was passionate about.

I do not know the OP's financial situation, time constraints, goals, or future breeding plans. I am just pointing out reality

 

[ComoxCorn]

I think 1000 pinkies for 20 hatchlings is an awful lot of pinkies. That's 50 feedings each. I think by the time any hatchling I've had has eaten 50 mice, they are up to hoppers and averaging 65 grams. I verified that by checking my iHerp records for 5 hatchlings.Also, 1000 lots of pinkies can be purchased for way way less than .50 cents a piece. A 1000 lot from RodentPro is $140.00 and from The Mouse Factory, $210.00. I also think a Herpstat ND (approx. $175.00 Canadian) can easily meet the requirements of one rack if a digital thermostat is going to be used.
Please bear in mind, although this is an accidental breeding, and a hazard of co-habbing snakes, I responded my pricing as a means to show that hatching snakes can be done relatively inexpensive on the start up, and equipment can be improved and upgraded over time. This thread will come up should someone do a search on breeding, and stating it is going to cost a minimum of $800 - $1,100 to hatch a clutch of eggs isn't really a true reflection of the costs. The pricing on pinkies and the amount of pinkies for 20 snakes is something that really escalates your costs. I also don't think it takes two bales of aspen to rear 20 hatchlings as well. Two breeder bales does me for three months on thirty six snakes (over half are in adult size bins) and I replace and disinfect every six weeks.
I will add this remark though, as a result of co-habbing, repti_girl has an unexpected clutch of eggs and should she not be willing to pony up for the expense of hatching and rearing, than absolutely the freezer is the best option.

 

[Outcast]

i know i have learned alot from this thread already. i was planing to breed gypsy this spring, and who knows, if i can actually pull the job that i want to get i will have the time and money to do so, and i know that there is a couple of the local pet stores that will take in my snakes if i cannot sell them on my own, this years Bandit is old enough to breed and breed him and Gypsy to see what i get. since im not sure on either of their hets... but i like the price/ equipment lists of things i need to get for the hatchlings. thanks everyone

 

[Buzzard]

I think by reading Repti_Girls last post, that she wants to take on the experience, and responsibility. So as concerned as we all are about what has happen, the "reality" is to give her the best advice we know and/or point her in the right direction, to help those baby snakes out.