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Can snakes be fed a vegan diet?

Living in Florida, I get to see more dermatologic cases than are seen in other parts of the country. What other vets see in a year, we see in a week.

In cats, allergies to food more typically show symptoms that affect the digestive system...vomiting is most common and then soft stool to diarrhea, and then perhaps in the skin. Other types of allergens will react more in the skin, causing itching that results in hair loss, inflamed skin and secondary bacterial infections. Actual hot spots on the face are not typical.

Not knowing exactly where the hot spots are located on the face, I would first check the ears and make sure something as simple as ear mites aren't causing the cat to scratch excessively at them and causing the hot spots. Another possibility is an actual contact allergy, such as to plastic food and water dishes. Switching to stainless steel dishes is so simple and easy that it simply has to be tried.

We've done quite a few allergy tests in our hospital, although mostly dogs. The most common food allergies are corn, wheat, beef and chicken. Most cats can't digest lactose as adults, so we don't recommend dairy products to any cat having allergies or not. Switching to a limited ingredient diet (venison, duck, rabbit - not seafood in cats) may give you the desired results, if a food allergy is the cause. Prescription diets (Hill's, Purina, Royal Canin, etc) will be better than anything obtained over-the-counter. Using a hydrolysed protein diet will also work (Hill's Z/D). And to make a proper food allergy trial successful, you must completely eliminate all other foods, including treats, table scraps, etc and feed exclusively the new diet for about 2-3 months before saying a food allergy is present or not. You also can't use any other allergy treatments in conjunction with the diet change.

A problem arises as only about 30% of allergies are to something in the diet. The other 70% are to things in the environment, such as pollens (grass, tree, flower), smoke, dust mites, other animals, dyes, certain cloth, etc, etc, etc. Without testing, it can be very difficult to determine what a pet is really allergic to, and often, you find out it's something you can't keep away from your pet. And those "allergy shots" made up by the testing companies are a waste of money.

We've found that in the majority of cases, if the food trial doesn't work 100%, having to administer corticosteroids periodically to a cat is the best way to go. Cats tolerate corticosteroids much better than people or even dogs, and in many cats, they only need an injection once to three times a year.

Susan that was some great info. My cat doesn't have allergies but my dog does and it's always good to learn new info.

Susan, thank you for taking the time to answer that. I do have her using stainless steel, and she is currently on a Nutro food, as the vet didn't even suggest a prescription diet. She's been on this for about two months and still has the problem. I check her ears regularly and clean them with a wipe, and there is not blood or dirt that I've typically seen with mites in my dogs. The hot spots are mainly along her cheeks as if she's rubbing on something that she's allergic to, but maybe she's rubbing to alleviate the itching. I've recently been giving her some benadryl that does seem to help, but she goes crazy when I try to give it. Is this ok for cats?

What you are describing sounds like what we just went through with our dog. She was constantly digging at her ears and face. There was hair loss around her eyes and hot spots on her face. Come to find out what she had was a yeast infection in her ear that was spreading to her face. The vet treated her with an antibiotic that I can't spell cause I can't read the vets hand writing, and a pain pill to ease her mood. She has major allergies to fleas and some thing else we haven't been able to figure out yet. So I put her on a food that consist of no red dyes or grains. It's lamb and rice all natural. I think they may make cat food too but not sure. The brand is "Diamond" in case you want to look it up. She's gained weight and the itching on her body and hair-loss has gone away. So I think we might have found what ever it was bothering her.
 
Susan that was some great info. My cat doesn't have allergies but my dog does and it's always good to learn new info.



What you are describing sounds like what we just went through with our dog. She was constantly digging at her ears and face. There was hair loss around her eyes and hot spots on her face. Come to find out what she had was a yeast infection in her ear that was spreading to her face. The vet treated her with an antibiotic that I can't spell cause I can't read the vets hand writing, and a pain pill to ease her mood. She has major allergies to fleas and some thing else we haven't been able to figure out yet. So I put her on a food that consist of no red dyes or grains. It's lamb and rice all natural. I think they may make cat food too but not sure. The brand is "Diamond" in case you want to look it up. She's gained weight and the itching on her body and hair-loss has gone away. So I think we might have found what ever it was bothering her.

Becky, YES! She originally had no hair on her ears when I got her, but the vet gave her an antibiotic to treat what appeared to be a secondary infection and had me switch her food. She was fine for a long time but now seems to be having the same issues. Her hair is thinning in her temporal region and along the sides of her face and she has some spots around her mouth. I know that she doesn't have fleas, and I'm seeing no evidence of mites, but I wouldn't know about a fungal infection. There's no fungal type odor in her ears, but that's not a definitive test.

Susan, is a prescription required for that Hills food you suggested? I'd like to avoid another office visit if at all possible and just try a different food first, but I'm not sure if I can just walk in and buy the food.

Thank you both for the help and suggestions!
 
Here’s a thought. If you gave a dog a laxative that would completely empty him out, cleanse so to speak. And then give the dog a colonoscopy, wouldn’t that be considered cruelty to animals? Don’t you think you would be arrested?
 
Now we're talkin' cats and dogs... LOL
Hey, the OP discussed vegan cats...there's no hijacking going on here!! :p

Where do you guys get this "Diamond" brand food? Can you get it at the chain pet stores?

**edit**

Wade, the 'scope is over. Time to get your head out of your hiney! ;)
 
I was at the vet today. My dog has really red skin. (She's a rednose pit). So he notices how red her ears and eyes and nose and lips are. Even though I told him she's like that all the time, he's off on a food allergy tangent. Armed with Susan's post for reference, I say "But she doesn't eat grain or beef, and rarely ever has food that contains chicken" but oh no, he tells me all the signs to watch out for for a food allergy...I love my vet, but sometimes I wonder if he's as up to date with dogs as he is with herps.

I feed Taste of the Wild, too. I'm really happy with it.
 
Here’s a thought. If you gave a dog a laxative that would completely empty him out, cleanse so to speak. And then give the dog a colonoscopy, wouldn’t that be considered cruelty to animals? Don’t you think you would be arrested?

Wade...you'll live through it! Think of the sense of relief you'll feel when it's all over and you check out just fine!!
 
First I would like to say that all my SNAKES are VEGETARIANS. All snakes will take a vegetarian diet. You only need to know how to package the vegetarian diet. The package that I use to deliver my vegetarian diet to my snakes is covered with short hair and has a long handle that I hold it by. For those who do not understand I shove the mouse full of VEGGIES and the snake eats the mouse so I am feeding it a VEGAN deit.

Fatman
 
Just too many of them to name so today I named them all Vegan. Just call out Vegan and they'll all come running.

25809_63374_Large_pXgilawXm6.jpg
 
I skipped the middle part of this thread....but IMHO it deserves some serious consideration.

I was lacto-ovo vegetarian for more than 20 years. Several years ago I added seafood, but I still won't eat anything warm blooded. One of the reasons I didn't keep snakes for years (I had them many years ago, then not again until this winter) was the dilemma of having to feed them.

For now, I have copped out and bought a large supply of frozen rodents. However, I've been considering the option of feeding wild caught mice. I raise chickens, so I've got a large population of wild rodents on the place. They've got to be removed somehow, so it seems efficient to feed them to the snakes.

Yes, I know about parasite problems -- which is why I'm not doing that for now. OTOH, many parasites can be killed by freezing. Coccidia, which survive freezing, seem to be the biggest problem. I've considered pretreating the mice before killing, or routinely treating the snakes.

It's a valid ethical problem. As someone mentioned in an earlier post, it has to do with Utilitarian ethics -- the greatest amount of happiness for the greatest number of creatures. And no, Utilitarianism doesn't necessarily lead to "the mental disease that is animal rights". In fact, the philosophy of Utilitarianism doesn't even contain the *concept* of "rights". ;-)
 
I've got her on a seafood kibble, but she's still getting hot spots on her face. If cats ARE obligate carnivores, is she getting what she needs or could it be another type of allergy? I'm at my wits end.
Before you go down the prescription-pet-food route, you COULD try something you're likely to already have at home, given that we're on a snake-based forum here.

Biologically appropriate raw food diet.

Got frozen rodents? See if she'll eat those.

I've been considering the option of feeding wild caught mice....Yes, I know about parasite problems -- which is why I'm not doing that for now.
There's a much bigger problem than just parasites if you use wild-caught mice.

What have those mice been eating? Can you guarantee they haven't been getting into warfarin or other poisoned baits on someone else's property?

Parasites can be killed off by freezing, but poison buildup in the tissues probably won't.
 
I skipped the middle part of this thread....but IMHO it deserves some serious consideration.

I was lacto-ovo vegetarian for more than 20 years. Several years ago I added seafood, but I still won't eat anything warm blooded. One of the reasons I didn't keep snakes for years (I had them many years ago, then not again until this winter) was the dilemma of having to feed them.

For now, I have copped out and bought a large supply of frozen rodents. However, I've been considering the option of feeding wild caught mice. I raise chickens, so I've got a large population of wild rodents on the place. They've got to be removed somehow, so it seems efficient to feed them to the snakes.

Yes, I know about parasite problems -- which is why I'm not doing that for now. OTOH, many parasites can be killed by freezing. Coccidia, which survive freezing, seem to be the biggest problem. I've considered pretreating the mice before killing, or routinely treating the snakes.

It's a valid ethical problem. As someone mentioned in an earlier post, it has to do with Utilitarian ethics -- the greatest amount of happiness for the greatest number of creatures. And no, Utilitarianism doesn't necessarily lead to "the mental disease that is animal rights". In fact, the philosophy of Utilitarianism doesn't even contain the *concept* of "rights". ;-)

I might add that a number of different tapeworm and fluke ova's can survive freezing, along with tricanoma and tuleremia. treating mice for coccidia involves drugs that also harm the natural flora of the snakes digestive system. Is this really worth the risk???
 
There's a much bigger problem than just parasites if you use wild-caught mice.

What have those mice been eating? Can you guarantee they haven't been getting into warfarin or other poisoned baits on someone else's property?

Parasites can be killed off by freezing, but poison buildup in the tissues probably won't.

Oh, no, that is not a problem in my case. I'm on a farm, I have lots of animals, and I absolutely do not use any poisons of any type aside from medicinal ones used for routine internal parasite control and such.
 
I might add that a number of different tapeworm and fluke ova's can survive freezing, along with tricanoma and tuleremia. treating mice for coccidia involves drugs that also harm the natural flora of the snakes digestive system. Is this really worth the risk???

I dunno. That's why I'm still pondering, and not doing....
 
Why is a wild mouse's life worth less than a domestic mouse? The wild mouse has a home and a family, the food mouse doesn't. If you remove a wild mouse from the population, another is going to take its place. It's not like you can reduce the population except for that one moment.
 
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