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Dog attack

ClickClickClickBOOM! said:
I think we should always be vigilant of ANY dog no matter if they are mixed or pure, small or giant, chihuahua or Pit bull.
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We've already done that part of the Standard Pit Argument and Wade said something about a chihuahua and his pants cuff, and a big dog maul and death. But feel free to loop back.
 
Lucille said:
We've already done that part of the Standard Pit Argument and Wade said something about a chihuahua and his pants cuff, and a big dog maul and death. But feel free to loop back.
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Sorry I didn't read EVERY post, but there is no need to get on my case. Feel free to if you want though.
 
And if you own such a breed, you have a great responsibility and need to be constantly vigilant.
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I was responding to this...sorry if my response and opinion is not welcomed.

I can just see it now, a golden retrieve attacks a toddler. The parents defend themselves for leaving the toddler alone with the dog by saying "But he's not one of THOSE breeds.."
 
ClickClickClickBOOM! said:
While I agree that YES they where bred to be dog aggressive I want to point out that not ALL are. My friends russell was bred to hunt vermin but couldn't care LESS about any type of vermin.
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You're preaching to the choir....

But...the potential is always there because it is a part of their genetic makeup. Although I lambasted that study, it did mention that in a large portion of the cases (two-thirds), the fatal or life-threatening attack was the first known case of any aggression in the dog. I don't know if I believe there was no sign of any previous aggression, but you can't completely stick your head in the sand. That's irresponsible.

And, yes, all dog owners need to be vigilant.
 
Sweetseraph said:
You're preaching to the choir....

But...the potential is always there because it is a part of their genetic makeup. Although I lambasted that study, it did mention that in a large portion of the cases (two-thirds), the fatal or life-threatening attack was the first known case of any aggression in the dog. I don't know if I believe there was no sign of any previous aggression, but you can't completely stick your head in the sand. That's irresponsible.

And, yes, all dog owners need to be vigilant.
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And I completely agree with this! But I think there's a difference between being PREPARED and able to handle an aggressive dog/ your aggressive dog and being paranoid that EVERY large breed/ or every dog will attack/be aggressive. People should be prepared but not ASSUME. I don't go into a dog park ASSUMING that the pit/mastiff/rott will attack my dogs. But I ((And hopefully the owner)) are 100% ready and capable of dealing with it. Just like I don't ASSUME my dog will attack something/one and I don't THINK she will but I am 100% percent prepared to deal with the reality if she does.
 
Oh, I definitely don't assume they are aggressive. In fact, I assume they aren't and head right for them! LOL Assuming I don't have my miniature pit bulls with me...
 
I've missed a lot... I guess this is really a topic of many different opinions. I just don't think that Pit Bulls, as a breed, are to blame, plain and simple. None of the studies have any really in depth statistics, other than bite %'s, which is too broad to factor in such things as A) Who owns these Pit Bulls. B) Were these Pit Bulls raised in a family. C) What training/socialization have these Pit Bulls received (since birth). Or any other reasons that may bring to light why Pit Bulls register higher than most other dogs in the danger category.

Lauren's point about snakes was dead accurate, and it also shocks me to think that anyone would support the right to own, say, a Burmese Python, but not a Pit Bull. I don't feel that the point about what the animals were bred to do favors either side, seeing you could make the case that snakes are more unpredictable, indiscriminate, and sometimes much more deadly than most animals. Pit Bulls were raised to have human companions (much like all dogs), and snakes can never truly build a bond of trust that can outdo their instincts. The same goes with the Killer Whale comparison. Whales aren't pack animals, and don't have the same relationship that humans have with dogs, which clearly makes them much more unpredictable.

You can make a case for every situation, and the Pit Bull debate is far too broad to come to any concrete conclusion. I could make a study right now for crimes committed while someone was under the influence of drugs/alcohol, and compare it to those who committed crimes under the influence of Watermelon and Grape Soda. By those results, I could then conclude that alcohol and drug users are liable to commit a crime every time they use (regardless of their personal history), and move to control them from using. Then I could say that no one who eats Watermelon and drinks Grape Soda is liable to ever commit a crime, so I shouldn't worry about them whatsoever.

Silly analogy, I know, but it makes perfect sense to me.
 
I guess this is really a topic of many different opinions.
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That is not exactly true. This is a topic of two opinions. People who love their dogs so much they chose to ignore the facts and people who can read. That was harsh, but true
 
wade said:
That is not exactly true. This is a topic of two opinions. People who love their dogs so much they chose to ignore the facts and people who can read. That was harsh, but true
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That's always the basis of your opinions. You always revert to those same old tactics of, anyone who disagrees is uneducated and blind, and I have all of the facts. You can believe as you choose, but I don't think that your statement "People who love their dogs so much they chose to ignore the facts and people who can read" is somehow more true than anyone else.

If you have facts, then share them. Where are your facts that prove Pit Bulls are dangerous dogs? Where are your facts that prove all dogs are capable of attacking? I thought that this was a very civil thread, especially considering how sensitive it could be. But it has once again turned into an "I have facts, you all who disagree are wrong" thread, and we know how those end up.
 
wade said:
That is not exactly true. This is a topic of two opinions. People who love their dogs so much they chose to ignore the facts and people who can read. That was harsh, but true
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No there are to opinions those who live by statistics and 'know everything' and those who understand that an animal is an animal and no two animals are the same. Keep believing all you want and living by you 'facts' and I will live by what I see and deal with daily and understand that there ARE bad dogs and not bad BREEDS.
 
Well I knew that last statement was too harsh and I guess I’ll have to be sorry for that Mike. But the fact remains that many facts have been stated and the dog lovers have simple not seen them. I think it’s great that you love your dogs. I think you are foolish in your beliefs. I think you have failed to read what the people who disagree with you have said. If that is my tactic in this argument then so be it.

I won't make a separate post for Mister clickclick, my comments would be the same as above.
 
Well

I only read the article and the first posts,I know some people raise these dogs to be used in dog fighting.Its like rooster fights,they put the two dogs in a enclosed pen and they fight usually to the death.People bet big money on the fights and there is big money to be made,these people need to be stopped,although I know they are working on it, but it goes on underground which is to hard to catch everyone.I suppose if they investigated all the pitbull breeders closely, more could and would get caught.Sadly where ever there is money to be made, there will be people doing it...... I suppose thats why the world is at where we are today!
Just My 2 Cents!
 
wade said:
I think you are foolish in your beliefs. I think you have failed to read what the people who disagree with you have said. If that is my tactic in this argument then so be it.
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I've read just about all of what has been written, and I think I responded to it with a fairly open mind. But none of what was written was absolute fact, with substantial proof that Pit Bulls were a dangerous breed, so I have chosen not to accept it as fact. I would love for there to be a really in depth study, covering all aspects of Pit Bulls, scientifically, environmentally, etc... I've agreed with the only fact that's been presented, and that was that Pit Bulls are responsible for more attacks than most other breeds. I'm just questioning why that is, which is not in any way foolish, because having questions is sometimes more important than always having answers. I want to know what type of people generally own Pit Bulls, or better yet, why. What made these people decide to get a Pit Bull? Are they fully aware of what owning a Pit Bull entails? What type of training has the Pit Bull received? What does the Pit Bull breed mean to different cultures, and are attacks more common from one culture to another? What type of discipline was used on Pit Bulls that ended up attacking? And many other question... How is that being foolish? I believe that there is SO much more to the story than the numbers, and I choose to hold judgment until the whole story is given. It's not that I choose not to read, but more that I don't settle for reading just the headline.
 
Personally, I think the evidence is not as clear as Wade makes it out to be, and not as kind to bully breeds as some others make it out to be. My take homes are:

any dog can bite, any big-enough dog can hurt or kill a child with bite(s)
dogs that are thought to be "pit bulls" are involved in over 50% of serious bites

I don't quite agree with the "no bad dogs only bad owners" theory either. There are some dogs that have been so badly cared for, so neglected & untrained, that they have become "bad". I don't think they were whelped that way though.

The folks who say banning bully breeds will lead to some other large breed taking over as the major cause of serious bites are probably right. It's been dobies, rotties, and GSDs in the past. So if bully breeds go "out of style" or are banned, it'll be some other breed.

But I also understand that at the moment it's bully breeds that are getting the headlines, and because they are powerful dogs with a strong bite for their size and great "gameness" which means they don't quit once they have started something, they can & do do great damage.

I think owning a big dog, any big dog, requires more than average responsibility, maybe a little like being a responsible owner of a retic or a Burm, or maybe even more like owning a hot. And unfortunately, and no disrespect to any bully breed owners here, who are that responsible, there are some really lousy owners of bully breed or mix dogs.

BTW there really ain't no such thing as a "pit bull". There are several breeds, including AmStaffs, APBTs, and in classifications, bulldogs & Boston terriers are included because they are related. I suspect most "pit bulls" are mixed breeds with some bully breed look to them.
 
as far as the comment on Pit Bull Fights.. HUMANS Teach them to fight. There was a Video on You tube some months ago I watched.. Showing a guy.. TEACHING his 5week old pit puppies to fight. He would scruff em.. Bang there head and faces together till they got so Pissed off they growled at each other and snapped at each other..then the guy would release the puppies. Therfore teaching the puppies that fighting is what he wanted from them. So, this is a trait that people are breeding pits that show more of the trait for being aggressive.. teaching them to fight or not socializing..and then breeding it to another aggressive dog.. and so forth. It is all about back Yard breeders breeding just to make money. Not on the better of the breed. If breeders actually breed Pits with Solid temperments.. there wouldn't be so many Incidents out there. But these people breeding just because the bitch is in heat..and the male is intact.. to make a cpl dollars.. is what is ruining the breed. Sadly, the AKC... CKC or whatever.. Don't really look into breeders all that well. And alot of this gets over looked. Which is why Labs and Goldens are becoming more nutso. Because people are breeding and breeding because they sell fast. But they have Many Health issues.. some with Anxiety issues.. some are Psychotic. Because someone decided to breed "Just one time" And not because they health was perfect..temperment was perfect. But just because they wanted one puppy from the litter. Pit bull breeders do the same. So, we are getting more and more imbalanced pits out there getting into the news. Because so and so bred those 2 unstable unsocialized dogs.. therefor having a litter of 10+ more pit puppies to be sold to not responsable owners.. to make the breeder more money.. So, now we have several MORE unbalanced pits.. and the tree just grows and grows. So, Until someone stops it from the trunk .. it will keep getting worse.

I say, Instead of bashing the breed.. and bashing the people that LOVE the breed. Then bash the people that make them bad. Bash the people that are making the breed myths true..

Pits are not surposed to be Human Aggressive. Any one that is.. is not balanced.. period.
They are known for being animal aggressive. And even people that get puppies thinking they are safe.. aren't always the case. At 2-3 yrs.. they hit maturity..and the most Socialized dog.. can become dog /animal Aggressive. It happens. It is something I Educate all the adoptive familys of before they adopt one of the pits in the rescue I foster for. So, be prepared to crate / Rotate any animals u have.

ugh.. I just wish people would see it for what it is.. Not every dog is the same. Not every human is either. If a family member of mine was a Rapist murderer.. does that mean I am doomed to be too?
 
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