Sad thing about my rats but I would like advise.

[Arpolis]

Day befor yestrday I culled off the last of the litter of rays because they all hit about 28 - 30g. I did however want to keep one all black female as my next breeder. I kept her on there alone and I noticed the moms swapping the baby from mom to mom like they normally would when there where several babes. Well yesterday I went to throw some vegy scraps in there and all that was left of the baby was a head. Could this be bacause there was only one in there? I did let the rats run out of food this last week. Well they may have been completly out for a matter of a few hours. So you think the resulted to canabalism necause of hunger? Sad thing over all. I also want to pull one more female from the next litter and just don't want this to happen again.

 

[cornsnakeforsale_com]

I'd say so. If they've got no food they'll look for whatever works.

 

[Em Wright]

I don't know that being out of food for a couple ours would entice such an extreme reaction. :shrugs: I have two female rats that live together as pets and they like to bury their food as soon as we put it in there (rodent blocks) so sometimes its hard to tell if they've run out or been out. Typically we put fresh food in for them every couple of days just to be safe, but I'm sure they've gone a few hours without food before and nothing like this has happened.

However, I don't breed them. The two living together are both females and there's no babies, ever. (They're pets) That could be a difference in the situation.

:shrugs:

 

[CornSnakeBreeder]

I had three female mice living together as pets once, and when they ran out of food for a couple of hours (like yours) they ganged up on one of the female mice, beat her up and ate her head. I found her body with no head and blood all over the place when I was coming to give them food and I was quite horrified...

 

[wade]

They would not do that just because they ran out of food for a few hours. Wild rats go without food frequently and they don't eat each other or there would be none.

Loosing all the babies is more traumatic than running out of food. That is the most likely cause. The females may have fought for the baby and it was injured in the process.

Just a point to consider if you do that again, At 28 days that baby was old enough to wean. It might have been better to remove all of the babies and put the keeper in a separate container.

 

[Em Wright]

I had three female mice living together as pets once, and when they ran out of food for a couple of hours (like yours) they ganged up on one of the female mice, beat her up and ate her head. I found her body with no head and blood all over the place when I was coming to give them food and I was quite horrified...

Mice are very different than rats is the only thing I can say. I've kept both and never have my rats been violent to the point of killing one another. (My girls do have spats, but they don't hurt each other) Whereas the mouse colony I tried to keep was awful... Killing and eating the babies while they had food, the one female became very aggressive we had to cull her... I won't raise my own mice ever again. Pets or not, I'm not a fan of mice.

But I like what Wade said. Now that I think about it, stress from losing the other babies and all that makes good sense.

Oh and Arpolis, I just wanted to say I'm sorry it happened! I know how awful it is to come check on them and find a dead baby!

 

[Arpolis]

Ty for the thoughts. My first inclination was fighting over the baby. My issue is that according to the munson plan about 30g is as big a meal you wanna give you adult snakes unless there monsters. At 13-15 days my baby rats met that weight. So if I wait 28 how big will these guys get and can I even feed them to my corns? I just don't want to keep 4-5 rats just to keep one And have serveral that I can't use.

 

[ssssinful-1]

I have a small colony of ASF. I have experienced cannibalism from time to time. Mothers have eaten the entire litter of newborns (first time ASF mothers tend to do that). I had one that was 4 weeks old- an obvious runt. She was so darn cute. I found her legs and some fur. Not sure if the litter mates ate her, or mom. It was disappointing for sure, but I believe they instinctively know who they sick and weak are and take of them themselves.

 

[Arpolis]

I didn't mention this befor but there are two females and one male all I'm the same place. Does any one think the male could have done this? He has been such a sweet dad the lAg two weeks and I have caught him cleaningand moving the babies appropriately. I just want to see if I need move the dad out our just leave no less than (4?) or (5?) in at a time to keep the females calm or what?

 

[salvadorian]

I would bet that the baby died without being eaten beforehand if the rats were properly cared for. They will eat deceased babies to prevent illness. I used to breed rats and the only thing I know of that would cause cannibalism is lack of water or food for a matter of at least 24 hours.

 

[Em Wright]

Oh you guys are talking about ASFs... those I have never raised. I thought we were discussing the basic rat.

 

[Arpolis]

Yes the rats I have are "Fancy" rats from pet co. I wanted some ASFs but after some research on the rats I had been getting from the mom and pop store; (for 10 bucks a week on only 3 rats), I found the breeder they use only has the "generic" Fancy rats as well. I know for a fact that my rats did not go more than 4 - 6 hours without food or water and that is exaggerating. I will say the only all black rat from the all black mom and the Tan and white male was kind of the runt of the litter. She was about the average size of the litter that was two days younger than this first litter. So I have been looking around and from the responses here it looks like for the next keeper I choose I have two options. One is to separate the moms when I cull off all but one baby, so as to give her the extra 10 - 14 days to come to maturity and be properly weaned or keep about 5 babies up until being weaned and try and get the un-needed babies to the local pet shop; since they will be too large for my snakes.

One last question. The keeper baby was held by me and my wife for about and additional 5 - 10 min more with about 3 min extra being within 12 - 16 hours of the accident happening. Could that at all have affected the situation? The only handling all the babies got was when being weighed every other day, culling for snake food on two occasions & when I cleaned the cages. I just usually admired the keeper baby more and checked her out more closely to make sure she looked like a she every day so as to not get my sexing wrong, this being my first experience with rats.

 

[Em Wright]

I like the fancy rats as pets. That's how I am most knowledge concerning them. I know next to nothing about ASFs and their habits though.

Good luck with your colony.

 

[bondoron]

Females rats will fight over babies. Each one will grab an end and pull (like tug of war) and actually kill them actually tear them in half sometimes. I am sure that is what happened. If there is only left like you said I am sure each one wanted it. Rats and mice will eat dead babies and adults. Nasty critters but a necessary evil for snake food.

 

[carnivorouszoo]

If you are doing keepers you should keep at least 3 babies, I never have problems unless I only leave 1 or 2. Of course that is with mice, I have yet to be able to get ahold of any rats GER!

 

[Em Wright]

Rats are way better than mice in my opinion. But then I keep them as pets, so there's probably a huge difference since no babies are ever in the equation.

Carnivorouszoo... if you have a reptile show coming to town near you there is likely to be live rats there as feeders. Buy a colony or two there. My first rat pet was from a feeder vendor at a reptile show.

 

[carnivorouszoo]

Next one I am aware of is in October and I fully intend to go. I am kinda hoping my hatchlings will sell so I have a tad of money to pick up a hypo or something.