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2 snakes, 1 cage?

vetusvates said:
Not all of them. We will have a senior teem of experts screen candidates. Some may pass the screening,...whereas some will fail the selection process and will be taken away for "intense re-schooling", shall we call it, and thereby prepared for assimilation into The Borg.
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so is, um...resistance like, kind of futile or whatever?
 
i guess it's all done, then...

IMG_0257.jpg
 
The spread of contamination and disease is not my opinion, but the truth. If you put two unquarantined animals together in one tank it may be a death sentence for both snakes. I'm not making up cryptosporidium, respiratory infections, mites, salmonella, and parasites. All of these may be passed from actual contact or cross contamination. I've seen corn snakes with respiratory infections, it was horrible. I wouldn't wish that on any snake even if it happens to be owned by a braying jack ass.
 
Im sorry, I honestly didn't think my post sounded like I was bitchig at you. I know I was being blunt, I almost always am, but I didn't mean to come off as mean. I guess I got a little flustered. I would appreciate it if you didn't make assumptions about me though, like saying my life sucks.

Again, I apologize. But I would still like to keep the conversation going, our of concern for your snakes. Have you found any information supporting your arguement yet? I think you really need to do some research about this subject, and take into consideraion what others have said.

We're not satin all this to be mean or snarky. We're saying it so other people can learn before someting had happens to their innocent animals. We would prefer someone read this thread and didn't house their snakes together, rather than throw two together and learn for themselves that bad thin can happen. Very bad, heartbreaking things.
 
Five pages on from my last post, I'm still waiting for someone to tell me the benefits of cohabbing for the Corns.

I'll settle for just one, if that's all there is?

Of course people can keep their Corns any way they choose. But if there are only risks to cohabbing and no benefits, then people need to be aware of that as they make their choice.

you can't force feed people your opinion like it's a fact. plain and simple, that's where you are all wrong. regardless of what someone's opinion is, you can't make them change it.
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That's very true. But people are also capable of digging their heels in and refusing to accept that what they're doing has nothing but downsides for their animals. A reasoned debate would be someone giving a list of risks, then someone else coming back with a list of benefits that outweighs the risks. I'm just not seeing this happen.

The risks that have been discussed in this thread are real - they are fact and not opinion. They can and have happened when Corns were cohabbed. They don't happen with every cohab though. Perhaps this is the only positive balance that can be provided here?

I think it's wrong to suggest that only the "anti" side of the conversation is entrenched and refusing to listen. Choice is good. Making a choice based on unbalanced evidence isn't advisable. We need someone to say why cohabbing is a good thing, other than feeling like they're being told what to do and kicking against it, or being happy to play the odds.

It's possible that "choice" is a moot point when it comes to the welfare of living things in our care. I'm not sure that choosing to do something to an animal that's potentially harmful, is a valid choice. People can choose to kick their dogs - doesn't make it the right thing to do.
 
But I've been kicking my dog for years and he's fine. He's not stressed. If he didn't like it, he would move away when I was doing it, and not just sit there and crouch down. He even comes over when I yell "get over here so I can kick you!" It must be okay!:headbang:
 
rexracer said:
But I've been kicking my dog for years and he's fine. He's not stressed. If he didn't like it, he would move away when I was doing it, and not just sit there and crouch down. He even comes over when I yell "get over here so I can kick you!" It must be okay!:headbang:
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this is just a conditioning trait. the dog has learned that he lets you kick him, he gets to eat, stay in the warm house and sit on your couch when you're not there. you can't apply human traits to other animals. like breathing and living. they're animals, not people!!!!
 
Ok I am going to put my $0.02 in. I am one of the few that co-hab. I have just 2 of my females doing it. Not all of my snakes cause I don't feel that they can. I am going to explain how I do it and give my observations. Now mind you I am not new to corns and I have had these ones for a few years and I know my snakes inside and out. I know I have no life. :awcrap:

First off the one tank that I consider my co-hab tank is a 100 gal. The co-hab tank is set up with vines, plants and hides galore. I have it set up to look like a tropical forest. I have the middle of the tank warm side and either side is the cool side so neither snake is forced to go to the other side where the other snake might be. Both these snakes are female. I can guarantee that because they both gave me eggs before housed together.

Now for my observation. I never find both snakes in the same hide, same plant, same water dish. They know that the other one exists but they don't care cause they each have their own space.

Now with that being said I have supplied these snakes with a viv that mimics the real world as best as I can with and way that they can both have there own hot and cool sides. That right there tells me that they don't need companionship they are forced to have it. Most peoples viv have one hot and cool side there for making the snakes live side by side. I am also an epileptic with no drivers license so I don't leave my house unless someone drives me so therefor my live revolves around my snakes and I am able to watch them.

Bitsy is absolutely right. Co-habbing is for the benefit of the owner. There is no reason for it. I know that I am able to do it because of the special set up and the time and money that I have put into it.

The biggest question I have is why would you tell someone that they can house their snakes together knowing that there could be a possible risk. When if you tell them to house separately then you would not have the guilt eat you alive when they com back and say "I brought my new snake home and put it in the same tank as my other. Not know that it had a raspatory infection and now both snakes are dead." Everyone just brings up the rare eating each other. Well the others gave you 5 other reasons not to do and why to have another viv set up. If you want to give someone the option. Then I would simply state those 6 reasons and let them make the choice. To each their own and it their snakes and they could do what they like. I never tell someone that it is ok. I know it is a do as I say and not as I do.
 
bitsy said:
The risks that have been discussed in this thread are real - they are fact and not opinion. They can and have happened when Corns were cohabbed. They don't happen with every cohab though. Perhaps this is the only positive balance that can be provided here?
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that's generally been my stance this whole time. like i said before, i have no intention of cohabbing two corns, because i only have one adult and the odds of me getting another adult of the same size and demeanor to cohab with before this one kicks the bucket are slim to none. i've mostly just been arguing that it IS possible, despite the risks. the risks can be mitigated with due dilligence, such as observation and the quarantine period. after that, you can put the two together and there is the opportunity that they will live together peacefully. there have been a few examples discussed in this thread, including my first hand experience (technically twice, with two separate pairs). i'm not trying to downplay the risks, because they are real. the pictures speak for themselves. however, the attitude of this board towards people with different opinions and views is disgusting. with this conversation having played its self out, the tone has calmed quite a bit. but that's something to strongly consider when offering (unwanted) advice. unwanted, implying whether someone asks for input, we're all gonna give it. it seems to be the nature of this forum.

besides, if the snakes were so stressed, they'd evolve to develop some form of communication to express that to us. the fact that they don't implies to me that they're fine with what they have.
 
Through out this thread I keep reading...
It's my/your snake and I/you can keep it how I/you want...
Sorry, but I thought the idea was to look after them to the best of our ability...
 
cmalchow said:
Ok I am going to put my $0.02 in. I am one of the few that co-hab. I have just 2 of my females doing it. Not all of my snakes cause I don't feel that they can. I am going to explain how I do it and give my observations. Now mind you I am not new to corns and I have had these ones for a few years and I know my snakes inside and out. I know I have no life. :awcrap:

First off the one tank that I consider my co-hab tank is a 100 gal. The co-hab tank is set up with vines, plants and hides galore. I have it set up to look like a tropical forest. I have the middle of the tank warm side and either side is the cool side so neither snake is forced to go to the other side where the other snake might be. Both these snakes are female. I can guarantee that because they both gave me eggs before housed together.

Now for my observation. I never find both snakes in the same hide, same plant, same water dish. They know that the other one exists but they don't care cause they each have their own space.

Now with that being said I have supplied these snakes with a viv that mimics the real world as best as I can with and way that they can both have there own hot and cool sides. That right there tells me that they don't need companionship they are forced to have it. Most peoples viv have one hot and cool side there for making the snakes live side by side. I am also an epileptic with no drivers license so I don't leave my house unless someone drives me so therefor my live revolves around my snakes and I am able to watch them.

Bitsy is absolutely right. Co-habbing is for the benefit of the owner. There is no reason for it. I know that I am able to do it because of the special set up and the time and money that I have put into it.

The biggest question I have is why would you tell someone that they can house their snakes together knowing that there could be a possible risk. When if you tell them to house separately then you would not have the guilt eat you alive when they com back and say "I brought my new snake home and put it in the same tank as my other. Not know that it had a raspatory infection and now both snakes are dead." Everyone just brings up the rare eating each other. Well the others gave you 5 other reasons not to do and why to have another viv set up. If you want to give someone the option. Then I would simply state those 6 reasons and let them make the choice. To each their own and it their snakes and they could do what they like. I never tell someone that it is ok. I know it is a do as I say and not as I do.
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Informative post.
Personally, I wouldn't file it away as a "do as I say and not as I do" but as the exception that proves the rule.
 
cmalchow said:
The biggest question I have is why would you tell someone that they can house their snakes together knowing that there could be a possible risk. When if you tell them to house separately then you would not have the guilt eat you alive when they com back and say "I brought my new snake home and put it in the same tank as my other. Not know that it had a raspatory infection and now both snakes are dead."
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Excellent point.
 
besides, if the snakes were so stressed, they'd evolve to develop some form of communication to express that to us.
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Not so. For example, dogs have been domesticated for thousands of years. They haven't "evolved" a method of communicating stress to us - they already had natural body language and make sounds that we can learn to interpret as stress. Snakes are the same - but you have to know what you're looking for.

the fact that they don't implies to me that they're fine with what they have.
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Signs of stress in Corns include refusal to eat (sometimes to the point of starvation), being more or less active than usual, a change in muscle tone when handled, becoming unusually lethargic or aggressive, tail rattling, musking, pooping when picked up and hissing.

The fact that you say they don't express stress at all and conclude that they therefore cannot be stressed, demonstrates the point that some people aren't in a position to manage the risks involved with cohabbing.
 
VickyChaiTea said:
Im sorry, I honestly didn't think my post sounded like I was bitchig at you. I know I was being blunt, I almost always am, but I didn't mean to come off as mean. I guess I got a little flustered. I would appreciate it if you didn't make assumptions about me though, like saying my life sucks.

Again, I apologize. But I would still like to keep the conversation going, our of concern for your snakes. Have you found any information supporting your arguement yet? I think you really need to do some research about this subject, and take into consideraion what others have said.

We're not satin all this to be mean or snarky. We're saying it so other people can learn before someting had happens to their innocent animals. We would prefer someone read this thread and didn't house their snakes together, rather than throw two together and learn for themselves that bad thin can happen. Very bad, heartbreaking things.
Click to expand...

No hard feelings, just new to the forum and you def came across agressive, its all good.
I was just adding my experience...I am taking everyones information seriously and i appreciate it, hence the reason why i joined = ) have a great day...ps i appologize for my response to your first post.
 
Dreamsnake said:
What are you a child? Put on your big girl pants and learn from someone wiser. On my first post I said something stupid and got called for it, so I quit typing dumb comments and listened for a few months. It's amazing what can be learned when you open your mind.
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Seriously... first off i never said anything "dumb" i was just adding that i have house two corns together for about 2 yrs now. I am very open minded and am taking into consideration everyones valid points. So i Won't quit typing...thanks anyways
 
patches152 said:
this is just a conditioning trait. the dog has learned that he lets you kick him, he gets to eat, stay in the warm house and sit on your couch when you're not there. you can't apply human traits to other animals. like breathing and living. they're animals, not people!!!!
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Its still abuse....and its still not right. Even though its "just an animal" doesnt mean that you should abuse it. Yes it is "just an animal" but you should still care for it best you can, its called responsibility.
 
rexracer said:
But I've been kicking my dog for years and he's fine. He's not stressed. If he didn't like it, he would move away when I was doing it, and not just sit there and crouch down. He even comes over when I yell "get over here so I can kick you!" It must be okay!:headbang:
Click to expand...

I really hope that everyone understands that rexracer is try to make a point and that he doesn't really kick his dog.
 
O I know,I got his point. I dont know if Patches did or not though. His point was just because you can abuse your pets and they are still healthy doesnt make it right.
 
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