Humid/Misting poll

[CentricMalteser]

This is a poll referring to the following post

Shedding Problem. Please help!

 

[Dorgrim]

Ive given my snakes humid hides at varying stages of shedding and they always seem to help. With a baby snake i had just a while ago, the humid hide was popped in just to see if he could get an eye cap off himslf and what do yah know! The next day the eyecap was suptuck right the moss in the humid hide, worked like a charm! I try to give ther hide to ther snake a few days after the blue stage, i find that the snake sheds around 2-3 days after their blue and the humid hide helps just that touch more they need!

 

[SquamishSerpents]

my snakes live in racks, so no humid hides OR misting for me. they shed perfect 99.99% of the time. but humid hides do work

 

[ceduke]

I've never tried a humid hide, and haven't had any problems. 0-0

 

[CentricMalteser]

that is because the old skin has broken, and therefore the water/misting can get in between old and new skin

Ive given my snakes humid hides at varying stages of shedding and they always seem to help. With a baby snake i had just a while ago, the humid hide was popped in just to see if he could get an eye cap off himslf and what do yah know! The next day the eyecap was suptuck right the moss in the humid hide, worked like a charm! I try to give ther hide to ther snake a few days after the blue stage, i find that the snake sheds around 2-3 days after their blue and the humid hide helps just that touch more they need!

 

[Dorgrim]

that is because the old skin has broken, and therefore the water/misting can get in between old and new skin

Well even before the snake has even broken the new shed, raising the humidity with a humid hide increases the mucus production between the layers of skin and rehydrates the snake to promote healthy one piece shedding. Its like a shower when you are peeling from a sunburn . Helps before and after! .

 

[CentricMalteser]

You're right!!! but only before the blue stage, as the blue stage is when old skin dies, and old skin cells cant osmosis to bring in water vapour to help the rehydration and increasing mucus.

helps after if the skin is broken like a shower when you you have peeled = a break in the skin, new skin re-hydrates, and water helps lubrication by getting in between old dead skin and new alive skin lol

Well even before the snake has even broken the new shed, raising the humidity with a humid hide increases the mucus production between the layers of skin and rehydrates the snake to promote healthy one piece shedding. Its like a shower when you are peeling from a sunburn . Helps before and after! .

 

[Dorgrim]

You're right!!! but only before the blue stage, as the blue stage is when old skin dies, and old skin cells cant osmosis to bring in water vapour to help the rehydration and increasing mucus.

helps after if the skin is broken like a shower when you you have peeled = a break in the skin, new skin re-hydrates, and water helps lubrication by getting in between old dead skin and new alive skin lol

BUT! osmosis is a passive process like diffusion and can occur with no energy input. A dead body will still absorb water even though there is no energy being put into the process (sorry that's a morbid analogous model <_<)
Besides that skin is a porous material as is! and will continue to absorb water regardless, as the cells and molecules sees diffusion's equilibrium .
Much like re-hydrating a raisin, the raisin does not need to be alive for it to occur

soooooo, it is still effectively permeating the "dead" outer layer regardless of it being broken or not. AND even after the blue stage the top layer of skin I would say is still somewhat alive. Anyone whos seen a shed come off too early can tell that the flesh underneath still needs protecting!

*science nerd-mode*

 

[Peanut Lover]

I went out and bought that expensive moss and my snake didn't go into the humidity hide. I only spray they cool side down with water, because I don't want my tank glass to crack (I have an undertank heating pad). My snake is almost always on the cool side, but whenever I spray the cool side, he always runs and goes over to the warm side. My snake is hydrophobic. Once I tried to give him a bath and he was literally jumping everywhere. Anyway, he always sheds fine.

 

[CentricMalteser]

the new skin yes may be senstive or still need protecting, that is why mucus is produced to facilitate the growth of the new skin whilst seperating the dead skin but that does not mean the top layer of skin is alive, it is dead, and until the process is complete, it is then it can seperate

skin cells do NOT absorb water when they are dead,

raisins are not animal skin cells, and therefore have different cell activities so this comparison is not relevant

osmosis has to occur only in living animal cells, for an animal cell to be living, many proccess including energy do actually occcur, as without energy, the cell itself cannot function, or process the water that has diffused,

a dead body does not absorb water either, that is why a dead body would always float, because if the body would absorb water, then the air would be pushed out and the body would sink, but it does not

its not absorbing water, - its diffusion of water = osmosis

BUT! osmosis is a passive process like diffusion and can occur with no energy input. A dead body will still absorb water even though there is no energy being put into the process (sorry that's a morbid analogous model <_<)
Besides that skin is a porous material as is! and will continue to absorb water regardless, as the cells and molecules sees diffusion's equilibrium .
Much like re-hydrating a raisin, the raisin does not need to be alive for it to occur

soooooo, it is still effectively permeating the "dead" outer layer regardless of it being broken or not. AND even after the blue stage the top layer of skin I would say is still somewhat alive. Anyone whos seen a shed come off too early can tell that the flesh underneath still needs protecting!

*science nerd-mode*

 

[Dorgrim]

the new skin yes may be senstive or still need protecting, that is why mucus is produced to facilitate the growth of the new skin whilst seperating the dead skin but that does not mean the top layer of skin is alive, it is dead, and until the process is complete, it is then it can seperate

skin cells do NOT absorb water when they are dead,

raisins are not animal skin cells, and therefore have different cell activities so this comparison is not relevant

osmosis has to occur only in living animal cells, for an animal cell to be living, many proccess including energy do actually occcur, as without energy, the cell itself cannot function, or process the water that has diffused,

a dead body does not absorb water either, that is why a dead body would always float, because if the body would absorb water, then the air would be pushed out and the body would sink, but it does not

its not absorbing water, - its diffusion of water = osmosis

won't argue it anymore but the voting shows the results.
OH also, for peanut if the moss is expensive where you are moist paper towels shredded or even just clumped work well too

I spose the material is up to the person? I dont know of what else you could use, I assume any kind of clean absorbent material would work?

 

[jessicalb]

When we were having some problem sheds we cut a hole in the side of a tupperware dish, put the lid on, and put several layers of folded paper towels nice and wet in the bottom of it. Then on top of that we threw in either crunched up wet paper or paper towel, but paper tended to keep it's shape longer. It was super cheap and no biggie to pull every day and check. We changed the paper towel and paper out every few days or if it was soiled.

 

[Naagas]

Ok, I'm sorry... but DEAD CELLS DO ABSORB WATER!!!.... Why would anyone think otherwise?
That is why moss absorbs water. That is what makes agriculture possible. It is why the skin of dead animals swells and wrinkles. (to be morbid)
Our outermost layer of skin is dead, and it absorbs water just fine. (Hence wrinkles when we bathe too long)

It is called Imbibition for those who care. It is why you can ruin leather by getting it wet or why wood swells when it is wet. Imbibtion.

I think that the confusion may be that dead tissue doesn't absorb water through osmosis. Since the cells are dead, they have no processes of the living cells. This is why dead cells may burst from the amount of water, while living cells are able to regulate this.

I am not really sure about the absorption properties of snake shed, but I DO know that the shed is permeable. It is not one solid piece of plastic wrap. It is a layer of dead skin that allows air to pass through it.

Think about your face. It is covered by a layer of dead skin cells. When you put on moisturizer, you are mostly moisturizing the dead cells, but you are also getting some of the moisturizer onto the skin below it.

If moisture didn't transport through dead skin cells, then you wouldn't bother with lotion. Oh, and we would all starve to death.

 

[Dorgrim]

Ok, I'm sorry... but DEAD CELLS DO ABSORB WATER!!!.... Why would anyone think otherwise?
That is why moss absorbs water. That is what makes agriculture possible. It is why the skin of dead animals swells and wrinkles. (to be morbid)
Our outermost layer of skin is dead, and it absorbs water just fine. (Hence wrinkles when we bathe too long)

It is called Imbibition for those who care. It is why you can ruin leather by getting it wet or why wood swells when it is wet. Imbibtion.

I think that the confusion may be that dead tissue doesn't absorb water through osmosis. Since the cells are dead, they have no processes of the living cells. This is why dead cells may burst from the amount of water, while living cells are able to regulate this.

I am not really sure about the absorption properties of snake shed, but I DO know that the shed is permeable. It is not one solid piece of plastic wrap. It is a layer of dead skin that allows air to pass through it.

Think about your face. It is covered by a layer of dead skin cells. When you put on moisturizer, you are mostly moisturizing the dead cells, but you are also getting some of the moisturizer onto the skin below it.

If moisture didn't transport through dead skin cells, then you wouldn't bother with lotion. Oh, and we would all starve to death.

EXACTLY AHH!! lol so relieving hah, I was hoping I wasnt going crazy! Im positive that dead cells are still porous. And as far as the osmosis thing goes, its not an active process and works regardless of them being alive or dead. It is actually possible to "drown" yourself by drinking too much water. look at a camels redblood cells, they are made to handle over abundances of water where as our cells would explode if we drank as much water as them.

BUT yeah the point is dead cells still absorb water thank you Naggas, hah I knew i wasnt crazy!

 

[Naagas]

Oh... duh! I meant that the cells don't use active transport. Not osmosis. Tired brain.

 

[CentricMalteser]

In fact living cells are actually ones that die, from bursting, due to osmosis, this can be seen when you leave you hand in water for long periods of time

and MOSS is PLANT......NOT animal! so stop with these comparisons as they are differently cell structured!! and have different cellular activities!!!!


The layer of dead skin cells is filled with keratin, an insoluble protein that is very fibrous. This same substance is also found in great amounts in your nails and hair. This keratin-filled layer of skin stops the amount of water that can pass through the skin at that point.

human skin is different to that of snake, snake sheds as a whole,

human skin, cells are dying day ina nd day out, and since when you just wipe your face or wash your face , these dead skin cells come off, that is why moisteriser works with you skin, as the dead skin is broken, and not one piece like a shedded snake is

Ok, I'm sorry... but DEAD CELLS DO ABSORB WATER!!!.... Why would anyone think otherwise?
That is why moss absorbs water. That is what makes agriculture possible. It is why the skin of dead animals swells and wrinkles. (to be morbid)
Our outermost layer of skin is dead, and it absorbs water just fine. (Hence wrinkles when we bathe too long)

It is called Imbibition for those who care. It is why you can ruin leather by getting it wet or why wood swells when it is wet. Imbibtion.

I think that the confusion may be that dead tissue doesn't absorb water through osmosis. Since the cells are dead, they have no processes of the living cells. This is why dead cells may burst from the amount of water, while living cells are able to regulate this.

I am not really sure about the absorption properties of snake shed, but I DO know that the shed is permeable. It is not one solid piece of plastic wrap. It is a layer of dead skin that allows air to pass through it.

Think about your face. It is covered by a layer of dead skin cells. When you put on moisturizer, you are mostly moisturizing the dead cells, but you are also getting some of the moisturizer onto the skin below it.

If moisture didn't transport through dead skin cells, then you wouldn't bother with lotion. Oh, and we would all starve to death.

 

[Dorgrim]

In fact living cells are actually ones that die, from bursting, due to osmosis, this can be seen when you leave you hand in water for long periods of time

and MOSS is PLANT......NOT animal! so stop with these comparisons as they are differently cell structured!! and have different cellular activities!!!!


The layer of dead skin cells is filled with keratin, an insoluble protein that is very fibrous. This same substance is also found in great amounts in your nails and hair. This keratin-filled layer of skin stops the amount of water that can pass through the skin at that point.

human skin is different to that of snake, snake sheds as a whole,

human skin, cells are dying day ina nd day out, and since when you just wipe your face or wash your face , these dead skin cells come off, that is why moisteriser works with you skin, as the dead skin is broken, and not one piece like a shedded snake is

Im gonna still say, that Osmosis does occur in dead cells. The ONLY major difference in plant and animal cell osmosis is that plants have a hard cell wall to resist over expansion, unless it is a small non woody plant in which it requires turgor to resist the expansion. Osmosis is a passive process of physics and CANNOT be resisted by animal cells, dead or alive, i could understand the non solvent contents of a cell not changing because large molecules (like polysaccharides) requires the ATP of a cell to move it and other minerals and vitamins across its surface.

The cell does not die then close the "little doors" that let in and out water through osmosis. It is like a chain link fence, a golf ball will still fit through the holes regardless.

If animal cells could no longer use osmosis after they were dead, you couldnt marinade a steak for 2 days and have it take in water, or have the meat dry out for jerky! Osmosis goes both ways not just one...if it was closed coming in what would allow it to go out? Also the comment about the dead body; a dead body sinks after the air in the lungs is gone. the only reason it begins to float again is because of gasses created by bacteria in the gut and flesh, not because of some crazy "no osmosis" reasoning. http://www.slate.com/id/2126310/

Animal and plant cells are not THAT different any way. At least not in their physics based processes.
Also sorry if im shaking the can but science gets me riled up

 

[CentricMalteser]

Osmosis happens to LIVING cells ONLY

dead cells although to the naked eye don't seem like they have decomposed or altered, at a microscopic level they have, and since there is cell damage from microscopic decompisition, the cells therefore cannot function, and osmosis cannot occur, as the cell membrane is no longer semi-permeable

In regard to your point about steak, a marinade is not water, and therefore osmosis defintely cannot occur as it is limited to water and H20 molecules only

What marinades do best is find their way into cracks and crevices on the surface of meats making a flavorful baked on sauce. In general, it is best to think of marinades as a sauce.

Most marinades consists of SOFA, salt, oil, flavouring and acid, to aid in marinating steak to give it flavoursome (hmmm thinking now of a nice 16oz sirloin)

And animal cells and plants cells although share similar cell activties, there are very very different,

for instance plant cells, photosynthesise to make their own food, usually by day in most plants, and therefore use energy

Carbon dioxide + water + light energy = glucose + oxygen

and then at night most plants then aerbocially respire

where as

animal cells only aerobically or anaerobically respire

glucose + oxygen = carbon dioxide + water + energy (ATP)

or glucose = lactic acid + energy (ATP)

I too am very well into biology AND chemistry

Im gonna still say, that Osmosis does occur in dead cells. The ONLY major difference in plant and animal cell osmosis is that plants have a hard cell wall to resist over expansion, unless it is a small non woody plant in which it requires turgor to resist the expansion. Osmosis is a passive process of physics and CANNOT be resisted by animal cells, dead or alive, i could understand the non solvent contents of a cell not changing because large molecules (like polysaccharides) requires the ATP of a cell to move it and other minerals and vitamins across its surface.

The cell does not die then close the "little doors" that let in and out water through osmosis. It is like a chain link fence, a golf ball will still fit through the holes regardless.

If animal cells could no longer use osmosis after they were dead, you couldnt marinade a steak for 2 days and have it take in water, or have the meat dry out for jerky! Osmosis goes both ways not just one...if it was closed coming in what would allow it to go out? Also the comment about the dead body; a dead body sinks after the air in the lungs is gone. the only reason it begins to float again is because of gasses created by bacteria in the gut and flesh, not because of some crazy "no osmosis" reasoning. http://www.slate.com/id/2126310/

Animal and plant cells are not THAT different any way. At least not in their physics based processes.
Also sorry if im shaking the can but science gets me riled up

 

[Dorgrim]

Osmosis happens to LIVING cells ONLY

alrighty then!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_garden

 

[Naagas]

Wow. Umm... nope, sorry. Dead cells still absorb water. You can't change the laws of physics by arguing on this forum. I don't really care what you believe about cells, or if you believe the earth is flat or that Elvis is still alive. Just, for the love of all that is holy, stop trying to argue with everyone about everything. At least wait until you get a few more posts under your belt before you start making everyone think of you as someone just looking for an argument.