Shedding problem. Please Help!

Ok, so i noticed my snake in "blue" about a week ago. I wasnt fully sure if he was in blue though because he has rub eyes, and only the outside of the eyes, had a very faint "tint" to them. The pupils were red like normall, also his colour got a little "greyer".

I bathed him 3 or 4 days ago, and i have misted his cage twice a day, and gave him a humid hide. He never went into the humid hide.

I fed him yesterday because he was on day 10 with out eating and he was under fed when i got him about a month ago. He took it instantly and took it down pretty fast.

A few minutes ago i herd something hitting the humid hide and i looked over and he had half his shed off and was crawling around. He went under the substrate and i didnt hear him for a while and i just checked and his shed broke off where the food is, he is sitting on the cool side curled up under the hide and there are what look to be small bits of old skin on his upper body on the spine.

What should i do?

I would leave him alone for two days. A regurge is WAY WAY worse than retained shed. Then if he hasn't gotten the rest off by then, look in the Health section and follow the instructions in the Bad Shed sticky. He'll be fine!

Nanci said:

I would leave him alone for two days. A regurge is WAY WAY worse than retained shed. Then if he hasn't gotten the rest off by then, look in the Health section and follow the instructions in the Bad Shed sticky. He'll be fine!

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Ok, i dug around in his substrate a bit and i have found 2 pieces of his shed. Its comeing off in chunks. I think the one piece is the bottom of his head (its loods like the shape of his head but has the big belly scales) and another long piece that prob came from his back. I cant find the piece from the top of his head to see if he has retained eye caps.

P.s. i just gave his cage a pretty good misting.

Since you fed him, you should stop messing around in his viv. You could cause him to regurge.

Nanci said:

Since you fed him, you should stop messing around in his viv. You could cause him to regurge.

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That would have been usefull info to put in the caresheets i have read. Should i change out his damp substrate?

I wouldn't change his substrate or put my hands in his viv for anything short of a fairly immediate emergency, until 48 hours have passed. Generally with our snake we feed in the evening (call this day 1), leave them alone for two full days (days 2 and 3), and then handle again on day 4. We don't change the water or do anything else in their vivs until day 4. We had some early regurges with our first hatchling and it was really, really scary.

jessicalb said:

I wouldn't change his substrate or put my hands in his viv for anything short of a fairly immediate emergency, until 48 hours have passed. Generally with our snake we feed in the evening (call this day 1), leave them alone for two full days (days 2 and 3), and then handle again on day 4. We don't change the water or do anything else in their vivs until day 4. We had some early regurges with our first hatchling and it was really, really scary.

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I normally dont handle him after feeding in less im picking him up from his feed box to put him home. Or under one occassion he would not leave his cool hide and after 3 and a half days he looked like he had just eaten so i took his hide and moved him. Other than that i dont normally bug him after he eats.

I did have to change his water today, after i noticed he was shedding in pieces my first thought was retained eye caps so i dug around to look for the top piece and got quite a bit of aspen in the water.

Im going to stay out of his cage for a prob 2 more days.

What I mean by "stop messing around in his viv or he may regurge" is, after a snake has fed, and is returned to his viv, he needs a good 48 hours to digest. It is a natural reaction of a snake who is disturbed to regurgitate his meal so he will be able to flee from potential danger. So anything you do in his viv that might cause him to feel uncomfortable and to start moving around could _potentially_ cause enough stress that he would regurge.

Nanci said:

What I mean by "stop messing around in his viv or he may regurge" is, after a snake has fed, and is returned to his viv, he needs a good 48 hours to digest. It is a natural reaction of a snake who is disturbed to regurgitate his meal so he will be able to flee from potential danger. So anything you do in his viv that might cause him to feel uncomfortable and to start moving around could _potentially_ cause enough stress that he would regurge.

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Ok, ill leave him alone for a few days and then soak him

agreed

any snake that has been fed should NOT be handle for minimum of 48 hours,

if you feed in seperate feeding box, then rather than picking him up to put him in tank, put the feed box inside tank and let him go of his own free will

i tend not to feed mine when she is about to shed or in the cycle which because i keep records i can roughly estimate when this is

also, if the temps are correct on cool side and warm side, then there shouldnt be a shed problem.

i will also put out, misting and moss box only helps, right at the beginning of the shed cycle

as soon as they are in blue (eyes milky/blue) then that means their old skin is now being seperated from their body, but this is now dead, but still waterproof

where as at the beginning of the cycle, the shed is still attached to the body and also can perform osmosis (passing of water through a semipermeable membrane - skin cells in this case) and therefore help with the shedding

leave for a few days, and then check back on her

if she has broken shed parts on her, then let her pass freely through a damp towel, or even put a damp pillow case inside the tank, because the old skin is now broken so mositure can get in between old and new skin, and help seperate

i will also put out, misting and moss box only helps, right at the beginning of the shed cycle

as soon as they are in blue (eyes milky/blue) then that means their old skin is now being seperated from their body, but this is now dead, but still waterproof

where as at the beginning of the cycle, the shed is still attached to the body and also can perform osmosis (passing of water through a semipermeable membrane - skin cells in this case) and therefore help with the shedding

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I'd disagree.

When the old skin separates from the new one, a layer of lubricating fluid builds up between the two layers. This stays in place until the shed completes - if you pick up a completely fresh shed, it's actually slimy (and quite disgusting!). If that layer of fluid dries out at any stage in the shed cycle, for example if a heat lamp is drying the air and lowering the ambient humidity, then the old skin can get stuck to the new skin and the shed will be bad.

So I'd say that misting or a humid hide can be effective at any point in the shed cycle. Having said that, I don't use them routinely - just when the previous shed has been a problem. Then again I don't use an overhead heat source, so I don't tend to have problems with humidity (the UK's usually pretty damp anyway!).

I appreciate what you are saying

however tha is fluid created by the cells beneath the old skin,

but you do not see it seeping through the old skin, because the old skin is dead and therefore cannot perform any cell processes, including that of passing any form of fluid from the outside to the underneath of the old skin

misting will only benefit right at the beginning or perhaps when the snake has started to break free from the old skin as then moisture can get in between the new and old skin because of the break

bitsy said:

I'd disagree.

When the old skin separates from the new one, a layer of lubricating fluid builds up between the two layers. This stays in place until the shed completes - if you pick up a completely fresh shed, it's actually slimy (and quite disgusting!). If that layer of fluid dries out at any stage in the shed cycle, for example if a heat lamp is drying the air and lowering the ambient humidity, then the old skin can get stuck to the new skin and the shed will be bad.

So I'd say that misting or a humid hide can be effective at any point in the shed cycle. Having said that, I don't use them routinely - just when the previous shed has been a problem. Then again I don't use an overhead heat source, so I don't tend to have problems with humidity (the UK's usually pretty damp anyway!).

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but you do not see it seeping through the old skin, because the old skin is dead and therefore cannot perform any cell processes, including that of passing any form of fluid from the outside to the underneath of the old skin

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The lubricating layer *must* be affected by ambient humidity - otherwise, how could it ever dry out and cause a bad shed?

If the air in the tank is dried out by the local weather conditions, domestic aircon or an overhead heat source, then it can cause a bad shed - at any point in the process. There is a very clear correlation between ambient humidity and a good or bad shed.

misting will only benefit right at the beginning or perhaps when the snake has started to break free

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I disgree for the above reason. By the time a snake starts the physical act of sloughing the old skin, it's far too late to prevent a bad shed. If it's going to be a bad one, then the old skin is already stuck by that point. You're then into dealing with the problem that has been caused by low humidity.

If a previous shed has been bad, then I pop a humid hide in with the snake as soon as it goes blue the next time. I take it out once the shed is complete.

bad shed is just because of current last 24 hour situations, it can be over the course of couple of weeks also

and yes temperature can dry out things

think of it like this

you have a piece of plastic, wet on top, but NOT in middle,wet paper in middle, plastic on bottom, wet on the outside no in middle

top plastic = old skin
wet paper middle = lubricate
bottom plastic = new skin

warm temp = drying plastic and the paper middle
however, by misting, the paper towel would not get wet again because the plastic is waterproof just like the dead skin, UNLESS there is a break in the plastic, - when they shed, so by misting that paper towel will not get wet again.

and if prev bad shed, then yes use a humid hide, but look at ur shedding records, and put it in when the skin dulls, just before blue, because the old skin is still active, the humid will still penrate the active cells in the skin

where as wen in blue, the old skin is dead

bitsy said:

The lubricating layer *must* be affected by ambient humidity - otherwise, how could it ever dry out and cause a bad shed?

If the air in the tank is dried out by the local weather conditions, domestic aircon or an overhead heat source, then it can cause a bad shed - at any point in the process. There is a very clear correlation between ambient humidity and a good or bad shed.


I disgree for the above reason. By the time a snake starts the physical act of sloughing the old skin, it's far too late to prevent a bad shed. If it's going to be a bad one, then the old skin is already stuck by that point. You're then into dealing with the problem that has been caused by low humidity.

If a previous shed has been bad, then I pop a humid hide in with the snake as soon as it goes blue the next time. I take it out once the shed is complete.

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Have to say that I still disagree. The outer layer of scales isn't waterproof - it's permeable. The plastic analogy simply doesn't work. A more appropriate analogy would be leather. That breathes, allows moisture in and out and is supple, but it can dry out and crack. However, it's still water resistant.

There is a clear interaction between ambient humidity and the lubricating layer under the snake's old skin - at all points in the shedding process.

Guuess we just have to agree to disagree on this point!

Perhaps this is a theory we can test? Anyone with a full skin and some time to spare? :crazy02:

Water balloon fight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yay!!!!!!!!

I checked on my snake today and all the shed is off him. But i cant seem to find the head piece of the shed. Is it possible to see if the snake has retained eye caps? his eyes look exactly like they did when i got him.

I don't know what size your snake is and if it's a baby you may have a hard time finding all the bits of shed. You can always put your snake in its feeding container with a wetish washcloth or paper towel. Let it crawl around for 20 minutes or so and if there is any retained shed, that should help it to come off. Chances are you'll find the eye caps at some other cleaning time.