Toffee...another dominant trait?!

[slangenbroed]

:shrugs: could be. I'm just surprised about the zero resonance because although they look a bit similar to caramel, it's still DOMINANT! I thought that feature would be enough to get some interest.

maybe the masses freak out when we show the first high end super combo with toffee - we're working on that hahaha
QUOTE]

i think to have the super combo but in BUF

I bred in 2010 a Hypobuf Bnhh and a wierd animal to ( but the last did not survived )
And this year 2011 in two other lines that wierd animal bred back, and alive.
I think a BBhh Homo-Hypobuf , and i bred the hetro-hypobuf to.
The discripsion for hetero-hypobuf ( born as hypo before shed, after shed a brownhypo )
Discripsion for the homo-hypobuf ( very light orange/yellow animal with hypolike borders and dark ruby eays )
Pics will follow they must shed first.

 

[slangenbroed]

Correct.

A codominant trait shows one phenotype in het form and another phentype in hom. form - the so called "super form".

A dominant trait shows the same phenotype in het. and in hom. form., no visible superform.

Toffee x Toffee is done and there wasn't anything else than Toffees and other regular colour morphs in the clutch, so I assume it's dominant and not codominant. QUOTE]

Then there is one Toffee homo.( just like Buf )
So Toffee in the punnet square
Tn x Tn ( T for Toffee n for noramel )
.......T..........n
T....TT.........Tn
n....Tn.........nn

Tn = Toffee in hetero
TT = Toffee in homo
nn = Normal

If one is homo

TT x Tn
........T........T
T......TT......TT
n......Tn.......Tn

Tn = Hetero
TT = Homo

What i dont understand is iám saying this 6-7-8-9-10 years in the buf thing nobody ever beliefd me. uke01:

 

[slangenbroed]

Is there predictable breeding results?

If Toffee is a dominant trait then:
- If you breed het Toffee X normal then you get close to:
50 % het Toffee + 50 % normal.
- If you breed het Toffee X het Toffee then you will get:
50 % het Toffee, 25 % homo Toffee, 25 % normals/others.
(That is close to 75 % Toffees)
- If you breed homo Toffe X het Toffee then you will get:
50 % Homo Toffee + 50 % het Toffee.
(All 100 % look like Toffee)

Do Toffees give breeding results like they should if they are dominant?

/ Niklas

You forgot one
Homo Toffee x whatever makes 100% hetero Toffee
same as in Buf

 

[NiklasTyreso]

yeah... actually we "only" have "het. toffees" in our stocks.
but those breeding results are shown in all clutches.

"only"???

If you breed het X het you get 25 % homo.

So, in 25 % of all clutches you shound get 100 % Toffees.


As nobody tell their exact percentages in their clutches, I do not believe Toffee is a single dominant trait.
Untill I get better information I think Toffee is a nice multigenetic strain.

/Niklas

 

[Ssthisto]

"only"???

If you breed het X het you get 25 % homo.

So, in 25 % of all clutches you shound get 100 % Toffees.

That's not exactly how it works - if a heterozygous Toffee looks exactly like a homozygous Toffee, it'll take time to prove out which animals from a het to het cross are in fact the homozygous ones. All Toffee offspring from a het-toffee to het-toffee clutch are 66% possible het (and 33% possible homozygous) for Toffee if it's a single dominant trait.

You'd prove out the homozygous by having a Toffee X non-Toffee that produced 100% Toffee offspring every single time.

 

[slangenbroed]

That's not exactly how it works - if a heterozygous Toffee looks exactly like a homozygous Toffee, it'll take time to prove out which animals from a het to het cross are in fact the homozygous ones. All Toffee offspring from a het-toffee to het-toffee clutch are 66% possible het (and 33% possible homozygous) for Toffee if it's a single dominant trait.

You'd prove out the homozygous by having a Toffee X non-Toffee that produced 100% Toffee offspring every single time.

That i was saying to

 

[Caryl]

I've been playing catchup. Interesting thread, and I really like the toffees! I love rich brown coloration of the "regular" non-amel ones. Gosh, I've missed so much while unable to be on the keyboard. I for one look forward to seeing more of these beauties in more permutations.

 

[NiklasTyreso]

That i was saying to

That is not right!
It is easy if it is a dominant trait.

If you breed two Toffees ang get about 75 % Toffee offspring, then both parents are hets.

If you breed (one or) two Toffees and get 100 % Toffee offspring then (the/) one of the parents are homozygous.

It is that easy, if it is a dominant trait!

/
Niklas

 

[NiklasTyreso]

That's not exactly how it works - if a heterozygous Toffee looks exactly like a homozygous Toffee, it'll take time to prove out which animals from a het to het cross are in fact the homozygous ones. All Toffee offspring from a het-toffee to het-toffee clutch are 66% possible het (and 33% possible homozygous) for Toffee if it's a single dominant trait.

You'd prove out the homozygous by having a Toffee X non-Toffee that produced 100% Toffee offspring every single time.

That is not right!
It is easy if it is a dominant trait.

If you breed two Toffees and get about 75 % phenotype Toffee offspring, then both parents are hets.
(Offspring is 50% het Toffee, 25 % homo Toffee, 25 % normal/others.)

If you breed (one or) two Toffees and get 100 % Toffee offspring then (the one or) one of the parents are homozygous.

It is that easy, if it is a dominant trait!

/
Niklas

 

[ThorstenG]

Hi!

Here is a pic of a little Toffee out of my testpairing to the locality female after his second shed.

Next picture is a Toffee Pinstriped Motley out of the pairing Toffee X unrelated Caramel Line.

And a normal Toffee and Toffee Bloodred out of this clutch...

[/img]

In contrast a normal Caramel

Thanks!

 

[slangenbroed]

Hi!

Here is a pic of a little Toffee out of my testpairing to the locality female after his second shed.

Next picture is a Toffee Pinstriped Motley out of the pairing Toffee X unrelated Caramel Line.

And a normal Toffee and Toffee Bloodred out of this clutch...

[/img]

In contrast a normal Caramel

Thanks!

Is the second pic not a Carameltoffee pin....... ?????????
http://www.farbvarianten.de/viewtopic.php?t=1194
And is it possible to show pics from the parents ?

greatings

Jan

 

[ThorstenG]

No, I think the Carameltoffees have more khaki as hatchlings. And they seemed to have no orange in the space of the saddles. Instead of this they have clear and strong yellow.

But it is still a hypothesis about Toffee hom. Caramel.

Perhaps this is the phenotype of Toffeecaramel. Benni Blum bred this one in 2010 out of Toffee X Toffee. First pic shows the hatchling, on the second pic the snake is 10 months old.

It looks ever brighter than lots of ambers and no hypo gene is involved.

 

[Dreamsnake]

I like the motley version. These are some beautiful snakes.

 

[Outcast]

I know I would love to see some of these on this side of the pond. I wish I could import, because I would...LOL

 

[ceduke]

I haven't chimed in sooner, but I think these are lovely! I'd love to see Toffee over here.

That caramel toffee is a knockout too, but I like the "regular" ones best!

 

[Drizzt80]

What were the results when a breeding was done between a "toffee" and a completely unrelated animal that is also not Caramel?

Thanks,
D80

 

[JimGERcream]

What were the results when a breeding was done between a "toffee" and a completely unrelated animal that is also not Caramel?

This year, ThorstenG bred a Toffee to a normal female from Jaspar County WC parents.

result:
11x Normal
9x Toffee

 

[Drizzt80]

This year, ThorstenG bred a Toffee to a normal female from Jaspar County WC parents.

result:
11x Normal
9x Toffee

That makes it more interesting for sure.

Pictures of the clutch and/or individuals?

Thanks again,
D80

 

[slangenbroed]

What were the results when a breeding was done between a "toffee" and a completely unrelated animal that is also not Caramel?

Thanks,
D80

Same as BUF
Here some pics from this year
First from Orange ( Buf -Amel ) x Mandarine ( no cara,el involved )
Second a pic from the Testbreeding you existed for years.A homo caramel x Buf.

:cheers:

 

[Drizzt80]

Same as BUF

I'm not asking about buf thank you very much.

I am looking forward to the clutch pictures from the breeding to an unrelated animal that is also not Caramel.

Thanks,
D80