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How many cornsnake morphs are around at the moment?

Hi Guyz!

Im making a project based on cornsnake morphs and genetics, could you help me with these quick questions? How many cornsnake morphs are around at the moment? Whats the current most wanted corn snake color?
Thanks for looking at my questions!

Greets,
Leonie
 
Hi!

I thought so too, I cant imagine that there are only 229, Ive seen too much morphs for that. And theres always a motley/striped/atztec and so pattern. The most wanted corn really is a hard question... I guess Normal, Amelanistic and Palmetto are the most wanted at the moment but Im not sure at all.

Tanks for helping!
Leonie
 
I guess with morphs in this case the poster meand how many single gene mutations. That can be read on Ian's vivarium, the single ones are all listed there.

edit; lol, not it seems....

Well, there are 20 single genes, maybe you ant to skip Stargazer so it would be 19. I know there is a calcualtion to calculate the amount of possible combinations, whilst including order, since ultramel anery is the same as anery ultramel. Have to think about it... maybe someone might chime in before I remember though.

edit; you would need to add normal as being a possibility I think, not sure though about the calculation being 20x19x18x17x16 and so on. Tessera amel anery caramel would be the same as Tessera anery amel caramel... no time atm to surf the net for the right calculation though.. I have a holiday in Greece to prepare for :)
 
It is a hard question to answer, because you have to ask "what is a morph?" Are you wanting to know how many different known genes there are, or how many different types of corns people buy and look for? There are localities and selectively bred corns that are technically the same morph as others, though they are far different and sought after for their unique traits. Some of these are single trait morphs and others are combos. There are also alleles that share the same locus, so there can be some confusion over the genetics being homozygous or heterozygous. There are even a couple morphs that are dominant, such as Tessera, so just listing them as "morphs" without further explanation could be confusing. And of course there are still unknown genes out there to be discovered. Palmetto was only recently proven to be a new corn snake morph.

Whatever specific information you need, Ian's Vivarium (linked above) is probably the most thorough list of corn snake morphs out there right now. You can also check out CornCalc.com for some information, though it all links to Ian's Vivarium when you select a morph for more info. It's has a good glossary and information on corn snake genetics.
 
That's a hard question to answer! And the number that exist is different from the number possible. The number that exists is changing all the time (like taking a snake which is homozygous for 4 traits, adding another trait to it, and creating a new combination which has not been created yet....or discovering new traits such as the recently produced palmetto cornsnake). The possibility was always there for that combination to be created, but it wasn't yet.

The calculation I believe blutenangel is talking about is the combination calculation (where order is not important and repetition is not allowed...so hypo lavender is the same as lavender hypo). If you know factorials, the formula is n!/r!(n-r)! where n is the number possible to choose from, and r is how many to choose. If you go to ian's vivarium there are 20 single trait recessive genes. If you want to take out stargazer that is 19. Then there are 2 dominant genes if you want to include buf and tessera. So lets just pretend for the sake of argument that you picked 20 as the number of traits to choose from (n=20). You would have to calculate the combination using r=1, r=2, r=3, and add them together. (r=1 means you only choose 1 trait out of 20....the combination of 20 choose 1 would equal 20 because you could choose amel OR hypo OR stripe etc...). Then you would do the combination of 20 choose 2, as in hypo lavender, or hypo amel, or hypo stripe etc.... and amel stripe or amel caramel or amel motley etc...There are 190 possible combinations if you choose 2 morphs out of 20). Then do 20 choose 3, 20 choose 4 up to 20 choose 20. (20 choose 20, by the way, would mean a snake that has all 20 traits out of the 20 possible....which would equal 1...but obviously does not currently exist in the cornsnake world. And I doubt it ever would because I would assume it would probably be just a plain white muddled mess). But, anyway, so adding together all those combinations you'd get 1,048,575 possible combinations. Then you also need to add in the wild type/locality/selectively bred stuff (lets just say normal, okeetee, miami, keys...so 4...the number is actually way more than this but I am just using 4 as an example) and the possibilities are 1,048,579.

Wow, that was long, boring, and too much math. But with using 20 traits to choose from that is the number of possible outcomes.

Of course, most of those possible outcomes do not currently exist...and as I stated probably never will. So for simplicities sake I'd probably just count up all the possiblities on ians vivarium, though those probably aren't all the ones that currently exist, there are bound to be a few missing.

I think it's hard to answer the "most wanted" corn. Currently in terms of rarity and people probably wanting to own one I'd say the newly produced palmetto, just because it is so different and so rare. In terms of popularity and ownership I'd say the normals/amel/anery/snow are probably the most abundant and commonly kept.
 
That's a hard question to answer! And the number that exist is different from the number possible. The number that exists is changing all the time (like taking a snake which is homozygous for 4 traits, adding another trait to it, and creating a new combination which has not been created yet....or discovering new traits such as the recently produced palmetto cornsnake). The possibility was always there for that combination to be created, but it wasn't yet.

The calculation I believe blutenangel is talking about is the combination calculation (where order is not important and repetition is not allowed...so hypo lavender is the same as lavender hypo). If you know factorials, the formula is n!/r!(n-r)! where n is the number possible to choose from, and r is how many to choose. If you go to ian's vivarium there are 20 single trait recessive genes. If you want to take out stargazer that is 19. Then there are 2 dominant genes if you want to include buf and tessera. So lets just pretend for the sake of argument that you picked 20 as the number of traits to choose from (n=20). You would have to calculate the combination using r=1, r=2, r=3, and add them together. (r=1 means you only choose 1 trait out of 20....the combination of 20 choose 1 would equal 20 because you could choose amel OR hypo OR stripe etc...). Then you would do the combination of 20 choose 2, as in hypo lavender, or hypo amel, or hypo stripe etc.... and amel stripe or amel caramel or amel motley etc...There are 190 possible combinations if you choose 2 morphs out of 20). Then do 20 choose 3, 20 choose 4 up to 20 choose 20. (20 choose 20, by the way, would mean a snake that has all 20 traits out of the 20 possible....which would equal 1...but obviously does not currently exist in the cornsnake world. And I doubt it ever would because I would assume it would probably be just a plain white muddled mess). But, anyway, so adding together all those combinations you'd get 1,048,575 possible combinations. Then you also need to add in the wild type/locality/selectively bred stuff (lets just say normal, okeetee, miami, keys...so 4...the number is actually way more than this but I am just using 4 as an example) and the possibilities are 1,048,579.

Wow, that was long, boring, and too much math. But with using 20 traits to choose from that is the number of possible outcomes.

Of course, most of those possible outcomes do not currently exist...and as I stated probably never will. So for simplicities sake I'd probably just count up all the possiblities on ians vivarium, though those probably aren't all the ones that currently exist, there are bound to be a few missing.

I think it's hard to answer the "most wanted" corn. Currently in terms of rarity and people probably wanting to own one I'd say the newly produced palmetto, just because it is so different and so rare. In terms of popularity and ownership I'd say the normals/amel/anery/snow are probably the most abundant and commonly kept.

awesome post, thanks for that info.
I did know the number would be many many thousands, but even this was way more than I had imagined.
 
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