xoxocammyxoxo
New member
Someone in a group I'm part of brought up starting a lawsuit and another person shot it down saying there's no point. Is there a point or possibility that it could work?
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Seems like it'll never end till they get what they want :(
- Thread starter steve roylance
- Start date
LittleFrog
New member
In our case, it was a rather panicked and ill-thought out response to the death of two boys in Eastern Canada that were thought to have been killed by an escaped python, a Burmese I believe. There were huge problems with the story though. The boys were both asleep in the apartment over the pet store where the snake escaped from, but neither woke up or cried out while the snake constricted and killed them both? And their father in the next room never heard anything? There were a lot of people in the hobby questioning the story and suspecting that the snake was being used as a cover for a more suspicious cause of death, but there was no proof in the autopsy, and new laws were drafted in many Canadian cities shortly after banning all large pythons.
Outcast
ATPSS
In our case, it was a rather panicked and ill-thought out response to the death of two boys in Eastern Canada that were thought to have been killed by an escaped python, a Burmese I believe. There were huge problems with the story though. The boys were both asleep in the apartment over the pet store where the snake escaped from, but neither woke up or cried out while the snake constricted and killed them both? And their father in the next room never heard anything? There were a lot of people in the hobby questioning the story and suspecting that the snake was being used as a cover for a more suspicious cause of death, but there was no proof in the autopsy, and new laws were drafted in many Canadian cities shortly after banning all large pythons.
Actually, he was the father of another child that was in the house as well, but who was sleeping in another room. They were having a sleep over... But why would the third boy be sleeping in a separate room?
LittleFrog
New member
Ah yes, that's right, thanks. The whole story was just plain strange.
vetusvates
Gamaliel's Principle
The graph is describing volume of classifieds on their site.
I know of no data to substantiate that that graph from that site--is a reflection on number of cornsnake owners (of even just one), producers, and buyers.
Let me pull up a Craig's List bar graph and we'll compare. ;-J
I know of no data to substantiate that that graph from that site--is a reflection on number of cornsnake owners (of even just one), producers, and buyers.
Let me pull up a Craig's List bar graph and we'll compare. ;-J
Don't know if this was posted somewhere yet, but here's a petition to sign https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pe...ct-currently-called-constrictor-rule/XlnH0X6x
xoxocammyxoxo
New member
I signed it and shared it
vetusvates
Gamaliel's Principle
Excellent. That was simple enough. Now everyone go sign, if you haven't already.
xoxocammyxoxo
New member
I hope we can get a lot of signatures. I may never own any of the snakes on that list but I don't really think it's right that they should be able to restrict the snakes like that. A member in a Facebook group made a comment about how they would rather pay a fee to be allowed to own them then have them restricted and banned.
vetusvates
Gamaliel's Principle
It is the principle of the matter. The principle. As in having principles, scruples, ethics, and standards of good practice.
These are requisite when dealing with all animals.
Wait...I may just use this on another thread. Seems pertinent.
These are requisite when dealing with all animals.
Wait...I may just use this on another thread. Seems pertinent.
Nanci
Alien Lover
Blog from Brian Barczyk
The fate of the Reticulated Python
Over the past 24 hours there has been a lot of panic and speculation about the fate of Reticulated Pythons, Anacondas and possibly even Boa Constrictors. Most of this stems from some recent posts that made it seem as if these species are going to be added or possibly have already been added to the Lacey act. This of course prompted me to get to the bottom of what is going on and try to calm the hobbies nerves. For starters “nothing” has been added to the list of injurious species as of yet. As we all know several species including Burmese Pythons were added to the Lacey act last year. Within this rule change there is a possibility that they can add additional species to the list without going through the entire process, but in many cases these additions are denied.
My first call was to Phil Goss, president of USARK. He is of course concerned and very engaged with this process, but assures me that there has been no “new” information released and that this process has been going on for months. There will be a ruling in the coming months that may or may not include some species of snakes. USARK has been involved in every step of this process and will be releasing a statement with very valuable information in the coming days. They had already planned on releasing this statement prior to the latest buzz, but are fast tracking it and hoping to have it out very soon. Phil ensures us that they are doing everything to protect ALL reptile keepers and that this is a process and there is no way to predict what the final ruling will be. Phil followed our conversation up with this email:
Phil Goss (president USARK)
The stuff floating around is not new information and additional species
have not been listed as injurious. USARK has been working on it all year
and we continue to do so. For reference, below is the original text from
the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs by the Department of the
Interior (DOI)/USFWS in 2011:
Abstract: We have made a final determination to list nine species of large
constrictor snakes as injurious wildlife under the Lacey Act: Indian
python (including Burmese python), reticulated python, Northern African
python, Southern African python, boa constrictor, yellow anaconda,
DeSchauensee’s anaconda, green anaconda, and Beni anaconda.
This is what was posted months ago and been brought to light again
recently:
Abstract: We are making a final determination to list four species of
large constrictor snakes as injurious wildlife under the Lacey Act:
Reticulated python, DeSchauensee’s anaconda, green anaconda, and Beni
anaconda. The boa constrictor is still under consideration for listing.
As you know, only four species were listed previously. This announcement
is not a final ruling but for someone who does not know that, it sounds
very dire indeed. It is just wording that could be misinterpreted
that was posted in the Unified Agenda. Any reference to a July, 2013
statement is from the most recent hearing and not from the Unified Agenda
as it was simply republished as part of the hearing record.
Below is one link where you can see that this exact information has been
around since Spring 2013.
http://www.reginfo.gov/public/do/eAgendaViewRule?pubId=201304&RIN=1018-AV68
My next call was to Bill Brant, seeing as he spent 10 years on the board of PIJAC I thought he could shed some light on the subject. Bill is very concerned about the potential for any additions to Lacey that will effect our hobby, but also ensured me the engagement that PIJAC had in the process and also confirmed that there was no “new” information out there. We all knew that the process to potentially add additional animals was in the works for several months and there is nothing that has developed in the past few days. With that said, Bill feels the the attention this has gotten is not necessarily a bad thing as long as the hobby does not panic and the snake market become effected. He believes that attention to all potential threats is very important and peoples involvements into these issues is paramount to the future of our hobby. This was PIJAC’s statement on what has happened in the last 24 hours. :
Statement on Constrictor Rule
USARK and PIJAC have been in constant communication about these issues for quite some time, and worked very hard to submit pertinent information during the rule making process. We are aware the internet has been flooded with speculation as to what might or might not come out in the future as it relates to which species might be listed as injurious under the Lacey Act.
PIJAC does not respond to speculative comments that involve an existing rule making. Based on the variety of rumors that we have heard, one of these rumors is bound to be right, just based on the mathematical probability. The responsible course of action is to wait until the Final Rule is published. It makes no difference to any reasonable person what is said or unsaid before the Final Rule is published.
PIJAC would never ask an agency person to violate their ethical obligations and leak any information before the Final Rule is issued, because it is unethical or possibly illegal. It puts the agency person’s (the leaker) job in jeopardy. And, as the party receiving this information, your reputation is ruined at the agency because other agency staff wonder how you got the inside information and will resent you for bringing scrutiny to the confidentiality of their work. PIJAC is in the business of representing the pet industry for the long haul and needs to be able to deal with federal agencies on myriad issues: herps, fish, invasive species of all types, etc. Sound representation is not about being first, but about being right. The only way PIJAC can guarantee being right is to read the Final Rule when it comes out.
We caution the industry against taking any action with their reptile collections until the Final Rule is issued. Here is an interesting article about the mechanics of the federal rulemaking process:
http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/uscongress/a/fedregulations.htm
So to wrap this up, we need to be concerned about the potential for some species including Reticulated Pythons and possibly Boa Constrictors, but until the ruling is made there is little we can do except put our faith in the process and the advocacy groups such as USARK, PIJAC and Herp Alliance. What we do have to take out of this is that fact that as a hobby we need to be united and be one voice. We can only win these battles if we are together. So this is not time to call names or complain about bad information, but a time to prepare ourselves and ready to stand up for our rights. This ruling may come down as early as February of 2014 or may be postponed for many months. In the end we can not panic and cause damage to our hobby when ‘nobody” knows the outcome. I for one am staying positive and hope that common sense prevails and they do not allow any further animals to be added to the Lacey Act. So there you have it, the full story. I hope this calms your nerves as much as it did mine. Keep that passion for reptiles! Brian
The fate of the Reticulated Python
Over the past 24 hours there has been a lot of panic and speculation about the fate of Reticulated Pythons, Anacondas and possibly even Boa Constrictors. Most of this stems from some recent posts that made it seem as if these species are going to be added or possibly have already been added to the Lacey act. This of course prompted me to get to the bottom of what is going on and try to calm the hobbies nerves. For starters “nothing” has been added to the list of injurious species as of yet. As we all know several species including Burmese Pythons were added to the Lacey act last year. Within this rule change there is a possibility that they can add additional species to the list without going through the entire process, but in many cases these additions are denied.
My first call was to Phil Goss, president of USARK. He is of course concerned and very engaged with this process, but assures me that there has been no “new” information released and that this process has been going on for months. There will be a ruling in the coming months that may or may not include some species of snakes. USARK has been involved in every step of this process and will be releasing a statement with very valuable information in the coming days. They had already planned on releasing this statement prior to the latest buzz, but are fast tracking it and hoping to have it out very soon. Phil ensures us that they are doing everything to protect ALL reptile keepers and that this is a process and there is no way to predict what the final ruling will be. Phil followed our conversation up with this email:
Phil Goss (president USARK)
The stuff floating around is not new information and additional species
have not been listed as injurious. USARK has been working on it all year
and we continue to do so. For reference, below is the original text from
the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs by the Department of the
Interior (DOI)/USFWS in 2011:
Abstract: We have made a final determination to list nine species of large
constrictor snakes as injurious wildlife under the Lacey Act: Indian
python (including Burmese python), reticulated python, Northern African
python, Southern African python, boa constrictor, yellow anaconda,
DeSchauensee’s anaconda, green anaconda, and Beni anaconda.
This is what was posted months ago and been brought to light again
recently:
Abstract: We are making a final determination to list four species of
large constrictor snakes as injurious wildlife under the Lacey Act:
Reticulated python, DeSchauensee’s anaconda, green anaconda, and Beni
anaconda. The boa constrictor is still under consideration for listing.
As you know, only four species were listed previously. This announcement
is not a final ruling but for someone who does not know that, it sounds
very dire indeed. It is just wording that could be misinterpreted
that was posted in the Unified Agenda. Any reference to a July, 2013
statement is from the most recent hearing and not from the Unified Agenda
as it was simply republished as part of the hearing record.
Below is one link where you can see that this exact information has been
around since Spring 2013.
http://www.reginfo.gov/public/do/eAgendaViewRule?pubId=201304&RIN=1018-AV68
My next call was to Bill Brant, seeing as he spent 10 years on the board of PIJAC I thought he could shed some light on the subject. Bill is very concerned about the potential for any additions to Lacey that will effect our hobby, but also ensured me the engagement that PIJAC had in the process and also confirmed that there was no “new” information out there. We all knew that the process to potentially add additional animals was in the works for several months and there is nothing that has developed in the past few days. With that said, Bill feels the the attention this has gotten is not necessarily a bad thing as long as the hobby does not panic and the snake market become effected. He believes that attention to all potential threats is very important and peoples involvements into these issues is paramount to the future of our hobby. This was PIJAC’s statement on what has happened in the last 24 hours. :
Statement on Constrictor Rule
USARK and PIJAC have been in constant communication about these issues for quite some time, and worked very hard to submit pertinent information during the rule making process. We are aware the internet has been flooded with speculation as to what might or might not come out in the future as it relates to which species might be listed as injurious under the Lacey Act.
PIJAC does not respond to speculative comments that involve an existing rule making. Based on the variety of rumors that we have heard, one of these rumors is bound to be right, just based on the mathematical probability. The responsible course of action is to wait until the Final Rule is published. It makes no difference to any reasonable person what is said or unsaid before the Final Rule is published.
PIJAC would never ask an agency person to violate their ethical obligations and leak any information before the Final Rule is issued, because it is unethical or possibly illegal. It puts the agency person’s (the leaker) job in jeopardy. And, as the party receiving this information, your reputation is ruined at the agency because other agency staff wonder how you got the inside information and will resent you for bringing scrutiny to the confidentiality of their work. PIJAC is in the business of representing the pet industry for the long haul and needs to be able to deal with federal agencies on myriad issues: herps, fish, invasive species of all types, etc. Sound representation is not about being first, but about being right. The only way PIJAC can guarantee being right is to read the Final Rule when it comes out.
We caution the industry against taking any action with their reptile collections until the Final Rule is issued. Here is an interesting article about the mechanics of the federal rulemaking process:
http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/uscongress/a/fedregulations.htm
So to wrap this up, we need to be concerned about the potential for some species including Reticulated Pythons and possibly Boa Constrictors, but until the ruling is made there is little we can do except put our faith in the process and the advocacy groups such as USARK, PIJAC and Herp Alliance. What we do have to take out of this is that fact that as a hobby we need to be united and be one voice. We can only win these battles if we are together. So this is not time to call names or complain about bad information, but a time to prepare ourselves and ready to stand up for our rights. This ruling may come down as early as February of 2014 or may be postponed for many months. In the end we can not panic and cause damage to our hobby when ‘nobody” knows the outcome. I for one am staying positive and hope that common sense prevails and they do not allow any further animals to be added to the Lacey Act. So there you have it, the full story. I hope this calms your nerves as much as it did mine. Keep that passion for reptiles! Brian
steve roylance
New member
steve roylance
New member
Nanci, Great info! Thanks for sharing your conversation info.
Didn't realize you had posted this when I made the last post
Didn't realize you had posted this when I made the last post